Williams review now the Williams-Shapps- Review

[Roast Veg]

Moved closer to the present, I hope, and not caught in a web of delays!

 

[The Planner]

Moved closer to the present, I hope, and not caught in a web of delays!

Nope, they will go back.

 

[Bald Rick]

Moved closer to the present, I hope, and not caught in a web of delays!

The present is full of engineering work already.

Fortunately, NR usually avoids planning major works on popular routes to leisure destinations in summer. The big one this summer is Bristol.

 

[Hadders]

Well it seems that this has already started on the ECML - no trains south of Potters Bar tomorrow (Friday!) due to engineering work. I can't ever remember the line being closed for engineering on a weekday before.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well it seems that this has already started on the ECML - no trains south of Potters Bar tomorrow (Friday!) due to engineering work. I can't ever remember the line being closed for engineering on a weekday before.

There will be ‘another chance to see’ the principle at the end of April too!

Blame COVID.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The TOCs are different beasts now than they used to be - they are creatures of the DfT really. So if it's what the DfT wants, then the TOCs will play ball. The world has changed.

Indeed. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

 

[SynthD]

If they think that there’ll be less peak time commuters and more leisure, I hope they have an earlier start on Sundays.

 

[Class 170101]

Weekend work will still remain because demand will still be lower than weekdays even with the 60 to 80% return to work referred to above.

The solutions are already there, NR have always wanted to move out of bank holidays and Xmas. We just need to make sure the DfT aren't toothless and actually instruct operators to play ball.

In terms of operators playing ball the DfT should also instruct NR to play ball as well. Frankly I am still seeing blocks with little work in them and Engineering Access not fully utilised and yet more access asked for because separate disciplines within NR won't even try to work with each other.

All Railway operators need to appreciate that the DfT should NOT be meddling in individual possessions but only the overall strategy. At the moment they are doing the former and not the latter.

 

[Bald Rick]

All Railway operators need to appreciate that the DfT should NOT be meddling in individual possessions but only the overall strategy. At the moment they are doing the former and not the latter.

Err, what?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Indeed. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Though, as The Planner hints at, it doesn't work so well if they don't know what tune they want, or if they've got a vague idea but are a bit feeble in requesting it and the piper prefers to take the money and keep on playing their familiar old material rather than trying something new.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Weekend work will still remain because demand will still be lower than weekdays even with the 60 to 80% return to work referred to above.



In terms of operators playing ball the DfT should also instruct NR to play ball as well. Frankly I am still seeing blocks with little work in them and Engineering Access not fully utilised and yet more access asked for because separate disciplines within NR won't even try to work with each other.

All Railway operators need to appreciate that the DfT should NOT be meddling in individual possessions but only the overall strategy. At the moment they are doing the former and not the latter.

Blocks utilisation has been a significant problem since privatisation and in large part is because the onus is loaded on contractors to take responsibility for everything going on in the worksite including being accountable for contractors employed by other parties. Who could screw up and cause an overrun or worse an incident. Take these issues away and you will get back to more effective utilisation. the other issue i see is you get criticised for asking for additional access at short notice so you over book it in the first place to cover yourself.

 

[Bald Rick]

the other issue i see is you get criticised for asking for additional access at short notice so you over book it in the first place to cove yourself.

Can’t win either way.

 

[Class 170101]

Blocks utilisation has been a significant problem since privatisation and in large part is because the onus is loaded on contractors to take responsibility for everything going on in the worksite including being accountable for contractors employed by other parties. Who could screw up and cause an overrun or worse an incident. Take these issues away and you will get back to more effective utilisation. the other issue i see is you get criticised for asking for additional access at short notice so you over book it in the first place to cover yourself.

Very much so, though I would suugest where access is 'overbooked' to avoid an overrun and the kicking that comes from it should the work be finished before the possessions run out (say it only uses 3 from 4) then perhaps the last one could be handed over to maintenance to make use of the access.

Can’t win either way.

To a point a yes I agree with your statement but when you see one worksite between Euston and Milton Keynes (for example) whilst it might happen occasionally and there are reasons why, it doesn't look great moreso when it happens multiple times.

 

[Horizon22]

When would be best for engineering possessions outside of bank holidays and weekends besides more night time possessions though? And there are plenty of the latter already especially on my patch.

This might be a discussion for another thread though.

 

[The Planner]

Weekend work will still remain because demand will still be lower than weekdays even with the 60 to 80% return to work referred to above.



In terms of operators playing ball the DfT should also instruct NR to play ball as well. Frankly I am still seeing blocks with little work in them and Engineering Access not fully utilised and yet more access asked for because separate disciplines within NR won't even try to work with each other.

All Railway operators need to appreciate that the DfT should NOT be meddling in individual possessions but only the overall strategy. At the moment they are doing the former and not the latter.

That is changing as well internally. Heads have been knocked together.

 

[Roast Veg]

Nope, they will go back.

The present is full of engineering work already.

Fortunately, NR usually avoids planning major works on popular routes to leisure destinations in summer. The big one this summer is Bristol.

Wishful thinking on my part. Are there any changes (or removal) of the GRIP process yet?

 

[The Planner]

Wishful thinking on my part. Are there any changes (or removal) of the GRIP process yet?

Yes, changing to PACE. There will be details somewhere but not got them to hand.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wishful thinking on my part. Are there any changes (or removal) of the GRIP process yet?

GRIP was put to sleep not long ago. It’s all about PACE now.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Very much so, though I would suugest where access is 'overbooked' to avoid an overrun and the kicking that comes from it should the work be finished before the possessions run out (say it only uses 3 from 4) then perhaps the last one could be handed over to maintenance to make use of the access.

Sensible but you can't guarantee that will happen so maintenance book their own possession. Also in my experience unless you offer a possession back when you don't need at least six months ahead the operators aren't interested. The industry has shown itself very adept at changing the timetable through covid and perhaps now with NR timetabling resource significantly increased again perhaps it will become more responsive.

 

[The Planner]

Sensible but you can't guarantee that will happen so maintenance book their own possession. Also in my experience unless you offer a possession back when you don't need at least six months ahead the operators aren't interested. The industry has shown itself very adept at changing the timetable through covid and perhaps now with NR timetabling resource significantly increased again perhaps it will become more responsive.

You don't realise the impact that has had on people and still does. It cannot continue in the same vein. Considering no trains are put through section 4s, it is only section 5 and 7s that would get given back normally. Unless you give them all back before the CPPP or at least the STP bid then as you state, TOCs won't normally bother.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

You don't realise the impact that has had on people and still does. It cannot continue in the same vein. Considering no trains are put through section 4s, it is only section 5 and 7s that would get given back normally. Unless you give them all back before the CPPP or at least the STP bid then as you state, TOCs won't normally bother.

So we need someone like Hendy to change the dynamics here between don't overrun, overbook access to cover yourself vs TOCs not interested inside CPPP in reinstating services or nothing will change.

 

[Recessio]

Any ideas/suggestions for new names for NR? I can imagine the conversations in the DaFT now:

"We need a new name for NR that doesn't carry any baggage... what about Railtrack?"

 

[Bald Rick]

perhaps now with NR timetabling resource significantly increased

It hasn’t...

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The industry has shown itself very adept at changing the timetable through covid and perhaps now with NR timetabling resource significantly increased again perhaps it will become more responsive.

What the industry has proven is that if you throw all process out of the window and significantly over-stress the planning teams both within NR and the TOCs, you can make emergency changes on a wholescale basis, mainly by taking great blocks of services out.

What this has NOT demonstrated is any great change in the ability to properly plan or optimise timetables. The indications from within the industry is a greater resistance to significant change going forward, not more ’agility’. And a resistance from within NR specifically to reinstating anything approaching the full service. I suspect this is because there is a massive storm brewing under the surface relating to the additional freight schedules conflicting with temporarily withdrawn passenger trains.

 

[Bald Rick]

I suspect this is because there is a massive storm brewing under the surface relating to the additional freight schedules conflicting with temporarily withdrawn passenger trains.

There’s less freight running now than pre-pandemic.

It’s about performance. The annual Public Performance Measure (PPM) before the pandemic was 86%. As of tomorrow it’s almost 93%. A 7% improvement might not seem much... but it’s halved the number of late trains. That’s something the whole industry is keen to keep hold of.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought the future was supposed to be in "Partnerships" with NR and TOC resources working together on a major route basis.
Foreshadowed, but not really implemented, in the East/West Coast Partnerships already notionally in place.
The corporate links (budgets, planning, franchise/CP targets etc) have not been made yet, so we are still in NR/TOC contention at every change.
It's the leap DfT seems incapable of making from the current setup to the new world they have outlined.
I don't doubt it's hard, with devolution increasingly getting in the way, not to mention issues with cross-regional routes like TP and XC.

 

[Class 170101]

You don't realise the impact that has had on people and still does. It cannot continue in the same vein.

I concur with this. The consequences of the pandemic will live with us for some time to come even after the pandemic has been declared over. Families will want to meet again, celebrate pandemic's end and grieve for those no longer here. The NHS staff will want a break after this, like many of us, to heal and recover and that includes the railway planning community as well as the wider railway family and others.

How we deal with this will be the next challenge and whether the Williams review can recognise that I am not sure.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's the leap DfT seems incapable of making from the current setup to the new world they have outlined.
I don't doubt it's hard, with devolution increasingly getting in the way, not to mention issues with cross-regional routes like TP and XC.

Absolutely until the govt set out its vision, be it Williams, Shapps/Williams or just Shapps inspired, the industry has no real direction. The TOCs aren't incentivised to do anything than run the prescribed service on time so are quite content that it involves less trains as that assures them that they will receive a bonus payment. Meanwhile the treasury will be looking on with increasing alarm at the costs and will demand savings before too long if the DofT doesn't head them off at the pass with a plan. My take is Shapps wants out of Transport and with conditions looking more settled for Johnson to have the off muted reshuffle he maybe just sitting it out. The Aviation sector is also being left on the shelf as well as an aside. Hopefully im wrong and they are beavering away in the background to merge Williams, the Traction decarbonisation plan with a post Covid vision for the industry.

 

[Mag_seven]

Until such times that the Williams - Shapps review is actually published there is little point in continuing with this thread.

If anyone wants to speculate as to what the report might contain then they are of course welcome to start a thread in the Speculative Ideas section (if a suitable thread does not exist already).

We will look to reopen this thread once the report is actually published.