Wimbledon 2012

[yorksrob]

Prior to that, they had already announced that the following programme was to be shown on Sunday. Presumably they thought it possible that Nadal would hold in there so made a new plan.

Fair enough, but as soon as Nadal crashed out they should have resumed normal programming.
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It happens because they are full of their own self-imagined importance. Why do you think that so much time is devoted to pre-race time at Formula 1 meetings, so these experts can spout their "words of wisdom" to an unwilling audience.

Indeed - though I'm not usually up early enough to encounter F1 (unless I'm sleeping on the couch of my chum who follows it )

 

[hairyhandedfool]

BBC are p***ing about with the schedules again tonight (but this time for no good reason), Wimbledon scheduled for BBC2 from 1810 'til 2000 followed by an hour of Today at Wimbledon and just before it they announce that the film at 1830 on BBC1 is Raiders of the Lost Arc. At 1830 BBC1 switches to Wimbledon to show Andy Murray's match (did they really not expect this match twenty minutes previously????) and BBC2 shows TOTP2 and something about Les Dawson. I have nothing against Wimbledon, but truth be known, I would have liked to have seen RotLA again.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

BBC are p***ing about with the schedules again tonight (but this time for no good reason), Wimbledon scheduled for BBC2 from 1810 'til 2000 followed by an hour of Today at Wimbledon

If that is the case, why could the BBC2 not have shown the Murray match on BBC2 when tennis was scheduled to have been shown on that channel and the film you describe to have been broadcast (as it was scheduled in the TV guide) on BBC1 at 1830? I should imagine that Raiders of the Lost Ark with an 1830 start time would have made for good Saturday night family viewing.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It wouldn't have been so bad if they simply swapped channels, but no, they didn't. I didn't catch an apology either.

 

[LE Greys]

Odd that they ditched Casualty for the sake of Shakespeare, you'd have thought they'd go for populism over culture. Especially since they could have switched over while the roof was closing.

Murray looks as though he's soldiering on. Baghdatis seems to be his bogeyman once again. It's also good to see someone who gets close to the net sometimes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It wouldn't have been so bad if they simply swapped channels, but no, they didn't. I didn't catch an apology either.

You should realise by now that for all their pious platitudes, the BBC still perform their "nanny knows best" role and amends existing schedules to cater for their xenophobic sports department....unless there was a sudden demand to show a Cypriot tennis player tonight..:roll:

 

[radamfi]

The analysis on Digital Spy indicates that the BBC didn't want to disrupt the Shakespeare on BBC Two at 2100 as that is one of the main highlights of the year on that channel. In addition, scheduling the Raiders of the Lost Ark on BBC One meant that in the event of Murray playing into the evening, it was a relatively easy to cancel the film as it is regularly repeated.

Of course, this could have been avoided by having Murray as the first match on in the day. But the BBC is interested in ratings, despite their public service obligations, so they ensure that Murray plays later on in the day so to maximise their Wimbledon viewing figures. (The BBC are consulted regarding the Order of Play).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The analysis on Digital Spy indicates that the BBC didn't want to disrupt the Shakespeare on BBC Two at 2100 as that is one of the main highlights of the year on that channel. In addition, scheduling the Raiders of the Lost Ark on BBC One meant that in the event of Murray playing into the evening, it was a relatively easy to cancel the film as it is regularly repeated.

Noting what you have said with regards the need to keep the Shakespeare programme on BBC2 for the reasons that you gave, I wonder what would have been the case if the Euro 2012 football final had been scheduled for Saturday instead of Sunday. What do you think that the BBC would have done in that scenario ?

Are BBC3 and BBC4 not a viable alternative option for the BBC to use, considering how much viewer's licence fee finance went into the establishment of both these two television channels.

I am old enough to well remember a World Cup match some years ago featuring Denmark (Peter Schmeichel was then the Danish goalkeeper) in a critical group-stage match which was in all the published scheduling media, but someone of a certain high-level post in the Sports department of the BBC and a well-known tennis lover, who was later severely reprimanded by the BBC and absolutely taken to pieces by the Press, made an arbitrary xenophobic decision not to show the entire first-half of this football match and instead, to show Tim Henman in a tennis match. It must have been "retribution from the Gods" as Henman lost the majority of the games played in that televised period and many keen football fans deliberately took it upon them selves to vent their feelings to the BBC which resulted in the blocking of the BBC switchboard for hours.

Does anyone else of a certain age recall this matter ? It appears that the lessons of history do not appear to have been learned at the BBC...:roll:

 

[Oswyntail]

I watched the Shakespeare, and I can thoroughly recommend it - well acted and directed, and thoroughly entertaining. It has been widely publicised for a long time, since January, and to change its place in the schedules would have been very damaging.
Of course, if the footie game had been on a Saturday, that would also have been known well in advance, and planned for in conjunction with the play.
I should imagine that the major consideration, however, would also have involved length of programme. The BBC1 schedule had one medium length film, plus several shorter units, making it easier to modify if and when "surprise" events like a tennis match come up. That is why, during Wimbledon, there is such a hotchpotch of programmes, mixed with much-repeated films.
BBC3/4 would have been usable for the play, but that would have appeared to be sidelining it to what are still considered minority channels. And, make no mistake, you only have to look at the cast list to realise that this is a high-profile project, that will rake in the dosh from overseas sales. Actually, it would have made more sense to plonk the tennis on BBC3.
But I would urge you to catch up with the Shakespeare!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The analysis on Digital Spy indicates that the BBC didn't want to disrupt the Shakespeare on BBC Two at 2100 as that is one of the main highlights of the year on that channel. In addition, scheduling the Raiders of the Lost Ark on BBC One meant that in the event of Murray playing into the evening, it was a relatively easy to cancel the film as it is regularly repeated....

Raiders of the Lost Arc was due to finish at 2020, a full 40 minutes before the tennis coverage on BBC2 was due to finish and that shakespeare thing begin. It also would have allowed lottery viewers to watch the draw at the scheduled time (2020) instead of having it delayed (did it get shown after 2300 btw?)

It surely would have been far better to show the match on BBC2 until 2100 (or there abouts) and then switch to BBC1???

 

[radamfi]

Raiders of the Lost Arc was due to finish at 2020, a full 40 minutes before the tennis coverage on BBC2 was due to finish and that shakespeare thing begin. It also would have allowed lottery viewers to watch the draw at the scheduled time (2020) instead of having it delayed (did it get shown after 2300 btw?)

It surely would have been far better to show the match on BBC2 until 2100 (or there abouts) and then switch to BBC1???

Even without the Shakespeare, it is likely that the tennis would have been switched to BBC One for ratings reasons. Yes, everyone who has access to BBC Two also has access to BBC One, but more people will come across the tennis by accident if it is on BBC One.

By the way, I'm not defending the decisions made last night. I am just explaining the reasoning behind them.
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Are BBC3 and BBC4 not a viable alternative option for the BBC to use, considering how much viewer's licence fee finance went into the establishment of both these two television channels.

BBC Three and BBC Four do not yet cover 100% of the coverage of BBC One and BBC Two on terrestrial TV. North East England and Northern Ireland have yet to switch off analogue.

Another option would be the red button, but that is transmitted on considerably lower bit rate than the other BBC channels so there would be a noticeable loss in picture quality as well as coverage not being universal until October (see above).

It is considered important for major Wimbledon matches to be in HD and on digital terrestrial, there are only two HD channels available - BBC One HD and BBC HD. BBC HD would have been reserved for the Shakespeare after 2100 so to maintain HD coverage, the only place it could go would be BBC One HD. BBC One HD naturally is supposed to be a simulcast of BBC One (regular) so that is another reason for switching to BBC One.

(BBC One HD does not have the capability to show regional programmes at the moment so there is a message telling you to switch to regular BBC One if you want to watch the regional programme).
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Does anyone else of a certain age recall this matter ? It appears that the lessons of history do not appear to have been learned at the BBC...:roll:

I don't remember that but you don't have to be particularly old to have remembered it, given that Tim Henman played in the late 90s/early to mid 00s. It wasn't that long ago!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Even without the Shakespeare, it is likely that the tennis would have been switched to BBC One for ratings reasons. Yes, everyone who has access to BBC Two also has access to BBC One, but more people will come across the tennis by accident if it is on BBC One.....

That being the case, you'd have to wonder about the reason for it being scheduled on BBC2 in the first place.

 

[radamfi]

That being the case, you'd have to wonder about the reason for it being scheduled on BBC2 in the first place.

Murray may not have been playing yesterday (if he had already been knocked out) or might have played earlier on if the previous matches didn't last so long, in which case it would have been on the earlier Wimbledon coverage already scheduled for BBC One.

 

[LE Greys]

I watched the Shakespeare, and I can thoroughly recommend it - well acted and directed, and thoroughly entertaining. It has been widely publicised for a long time, since January, and to change its place in the schedules would have been very damaging.
Of course, if the footie game had been on a Saturday, that would also have been known well in advance, and planned for in conjunction with the play.
I should imagine that the major consideration, however, would also have involved length of programme. The BBC1 schedule had one medium length film, plus several shorter units, making it easier to modify if and when "surprise" events like a tennis match come up. That is why, during Wimbledon, there is such a hotchpotch of programmes, mixed with much-repeated films.
BBC3/4 would have been usable for the play, but that would have appeared to be sidelining it to what are still considered minority channels. And, make no mistake, you only have to look at the cast list to realise that this is a high-profile project, that will rake in the dosh from overseas sales. Actually, it would have made more sense to plonk the tennis on BBC3.
But I would urge you to catch up with the Shakespeare!

I saw some of it, and it's on the list, trust me!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

At 1810 BBC2 announced Raiders of the Lost Arc was on BBC1 at 1830, at what point did they know Murray was playing?

 

[LE Greys]

There was also a huge debate about whether they would have to call the match off at 11 o'clock. When it came around, Murray 5-2 up in the fourth set and about to serve for the match. Henman (who was commentating) said that he had once been in a match where he was two sets up, 5-4 and serving, and they had to go off. Luckily, common sense prevailed and Murray was allowed to serve it out.

Baghdatis certainly put up a good show, though.

 

[radamfi]

At 1810 BBC2 announced Raiders of the Lost Arc was on BBC1 at 1830, at what point did they know Murray was playing?

Was that a trailer? They might have forgot not to play it. Or a live announcer? Perhaps there was discussion going on at BBC management at that time and they hadn't quite made up their mind what was going to happen.

Long debate on the situation on here:

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1677711&page=8

It did seem to surprise some people that the film would be cancelled. It does sound like that its cancellation wasn't announced before 1830.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Was that a trailer? They might have forgot not to play it. Or a live announcer?....

Live announcer.

 

[andrew bell]

There was also a huge debate about whether they would have to call the match off at 11 o'clock. When it came around, Murray 5-2 up in the fourth set and about to serve for the match. Henman (who was commentating) said that he had once been in a match where he was two sets up, 5-4 and serving, and they had to go off. Luckily, common sense prevailed and Murray was allowed to serve it out.

Baghdatis certainly put up a good show, though.

If the 4th set was at 2 games all at 11pm the match would of been called off and been finished on Monday, but if the match was within a game or two of finishing at 11pm (which it was) they were allowed to continue. It would of been intresting if they got to a tie break at 11pm, what would they do?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the 2300 time limit one that had been demanded by the Local Authority ?

 

[andrew bell]

Is the 2300 time limit one that had been demanded by the Local Authority ?

When they installed the roof the residents asked for a 11pm latest finish because they were concerned about noise at that time of night, but they allowed a little leway if games looked like they would finish within 1-2 games

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not such a good weather forecast for the coming week....

 

[philjo]

Is the 2300 time limit one that had been demanded by the Local Authority ?

I think it is one of the conditions imposed in the planning permission granted for the installation of the roof. Mainly to reduce impact on local residents.


There is also presumably the issue that if it finished much later there would be problems with everyone descending on Wimbledon/Southfields stations around the time of the last trains - I think the last District line train to Edgware road leaves about 23:40 - after that they only go to Earls court or High Street Ken.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No surprises in the first two completed Mens Singles quarter-final matches today.....

Federer beat Youzhny ... 6-1 6-2 6-2

Djokovic beat Mayer ..... 6-4 6-1 6-4

 

[David]

Andy Murray and David Ferrer are very evenly matched so far, and could well possibly be a very long match.

The first 2 sets were both decided on tie breaks, with Murray taking the 3rd set after getting a break of serve when it was 4 games all. He consequently won his next service game to win the set 6-4.

Currently it's 2 sets to 1 in Murray's favour (6-7, 7-6, 6-4) and 3 games all in the 4th set.

 

[Ivo]

Murray is through to the Semis after winning in four sets (6-7 [5-7], 7-6 [8-6], 6-4, 7-6 [7-4]) - but based on other matches the talk (elsewhere) of him having a real chance looks a little premature. Nadal may be out but taking his place is the 5th seed, Tsonga, meaning the best in his quarter has been replaced by the second best, while Djokovic and Federer also progressed to the semis. In other words, it's the strongest it could possibly be without Nadal.

It'll take more than just ability and fitness for him to win from here. Whoever wins between Djokovic or (less likely) Federer will be favourite in the Final.

 

[RyanB]

Murray is through to the Semis after winning in four sets (6-7 [5-7], 7-6 [8-6], 6-4, 7-6 [7-4]) - but based on other matches the talk (elsewhere) of him having a real chance looks a little premature. Nadal may be out but taking his place is the 5th seed, Tsonga, meaning the best in his quarter has been replaced by the second best, while Djokovic and Federer also progressed to the semis. In other words, it's the strongest it could possibly be without Nadal.

It'll take more than just ability and fitness for him to win from here. Whoever wins between Djokovic or (less likely) Federer will be favourite in the Final.

Murray has been playing some of the best tennis I've seen him play for a long time, but if he does get to the final, provided that he keeps his cool, he is more than capable of winning, against either Djokovic or Federer. Besides a fairly partisan crowd shall likely be cheering Andy on if he gets there and I reckon he may just win it.

Tsonga is another good player and Murray will have to work hard to get past him, but whereas Ferrer has a motor that runs and runs enabling him to play shots from all over the court,; Tsonga has a big serve and Murray is regarded as one of the best returners in the Men's game, but he also gets about the court fairly well and this could prove troublesome for Murray.

With regards to Matches played between the two, Murray has the edge on Tsonga, being 5-1 overall and 2-0 on Grass (including a victory in the QFs at Wimbledon 2 years ago)

For me Murray will go through to his first Wimbledon final in a tight 4 set match, with at least 2 sets being decided by tie break.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if it will be a "beauty and the beast final".....not saying which singles..:roll:

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well, following the change of schedules on Saturday, here is what the BBC said.....

Thank you for contacting us about the changes to the schedule on 30 June 2012.

In order to reply we raised your concerns with the BBC One Schedule Manager.

Wimbledon is a national event and the matches involving Andy Murray are of enormous interest to a large number of UK viewers. He was the sole Briton left in the tournament at this stage and it was with this in mind that we made the decision to show his match against Marcos Baghdatis on BBC One. Such decisions are not taken lightly or made by one person. They are agreed by Senior Management within BBC Vision and referred to the Channel Controller.

In these situations we need to weigh up the needs of the BBC One audience as whole. The tennis match is live and the audience expect it to be shown live, whereas the other programmes in the schedule can be postponed. ‘Casualty’ for example will continue where it left off the following Saturday and ‘Raiders of the Lost Ark’ was rescheduled to be shown on that date also - 7 July.

While events like this are rare, audience figures strongly indicate that viewers come to BBC One expecting to see big live events, be it tennis, football, the Thames Pageant, the Royal Wedding, or the Jubilee Concert. The fact is that upwards of 8 million viewers watched the Andy Murray match (more than 40% of people watching TV at the time) and this suggests that we made the right decision given the circumstances.

While we regret any inconvenience and disappointment caused as a result of the changes we hope that our response goes some way to assure you that we do take these matters very seriously and that they are given proper consideration.

I’d like to assure you I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is an internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily and is available for viewing by all our staff. This includes all scheduling teams and channel controllers, along with our senior management. It ensures that your points, along with all other comments we receive, are considered across the BBC.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

BBC Complaints

....which doesn't exactly answer why they didn't show it on BBC2 as scheduled and doesn't answer why they left it so late to change the schedule, but I think the lesson here is, if you don't want to watch the tennis, don't look at the schedules until you have found out when Andy Murray's matches are scheduled.

 

[TGV]

Indy finds the Ark and they all live happily ever after, apart from the guy whose face melts. Now you can enjoy the tennis.