Windermere line electrification progress

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by 59CosG95, 5 Sep 2019.

  1. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Amid all the Brexit chaos in Parliament yesterday, there was a debate on electrifying the Lakes Line.

    Tim Farron, MP for Westmorland & Lonsdale (the constituency through which the Lakes Line runs) has given it his support.

    https://twitter.com/Rail_Elec/status/1169280312599298053?s=19
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 5 Sep 2019
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  3. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Only a couple of hundred more supports needed and someone can start hanging wires from them.
     
  4. deltic08

    deltic08 On Moderation

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    About time. I hope he succeeded in convincing the minister.

    It would only cost £15m or thereabouts and only take 3 months if the branch was closed and bustituted.
     
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  5. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    One of the issues with the Lakes line is that the western half (5 miles) is inside the Lake District National Park.
    Planning approval for any changes to the infrastructure might be difficult to get in these environmentally-sensitive times.
    This was alluded to by Chris Grayling in his decision to cancel the scheme.
    Of course we now have 80 miles of wired route from Manchester Airport to Oxenholme being run by DMUs, just so they can spend the final 10 miles on the unwired Windermere branch.
    The bi-mode solution once proffered instead of electrification seems to have evaporated.
     
  6. class26

    class26 Member

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    This attitude from local authorities (planning permission) is totally nuts. keeping diesel will aid climate change which will destroy the national park much more than a the wires !
     
  7. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    Presumably the linespeed and traffic is low enough for fairly subtle metalwork. Subtle enough less pollution pumped into the park outweighs minor visual intrusion.
     
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  8. Mollman

    Mollman Member

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    I seem to recall someone proposed using wood instead of metal poles.
     
  9. Joseph_Locke

    Joseph_Locke Established Member

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    https://www.mottmac.com/releases/mo...innovative-integrated-overhead-line-structure

    The last estimate for electrification was quite a bit more than £15m, and you'd put the loop in the middle (unless you were going to re-create the connection from the Down Main onto the Branch, north Oxenholme, to allow trains to pass there).
     
  10. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    Who are Campaign to Electrify Britain's Railway? A small group of rail enthusiasts?
    Why would they want to discuss the scheme with Tim Farron? His views on it are already very well known but he has about as much influence as I do when it come to government spending.
     
  11. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Key industry players in the Overhead Live Equipment sector of rail, amongst other industry players in favour of electric over diesel traction.

    I was fortunate enough to attend their 'town hall' meeting at the University of Birmingham (my alma mater) back in April, and a number of prominent industry speakers were there (David Shirres of The Rail Engineer among them).
     
  12. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    https://www.railwayelectrification.org/

    I am also writing a Wikipedia article with references etc. I was rejected but I am editing heavily to improve and be accepted. Feel free to improve please

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Campaign_to_Electrify_Britain’s_Railways
     
    Last edited: 6 Sep 2019
  13. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    So people who would personally profit from electrification then.
     
  14. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Last edited: 6 Sep 2019
  15. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    It is NOT an issue
    I haven't seen any evidence yet that the national park might try to obstruct electrification, in fact https://www.thecumbrialep.co.uk/wp-...y-of-Lake-District-line-rail-improvements.pdf says
    and
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 7 Sep 2019
  16. Grumpy

    Grumpy Member

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    Is that "quite a bit more than £15m" for putting the wire above the existing track, with a further add-on for the loop/re-created connection, or add-on included?
    I suspect many of us outsiders are confused by the costs of electrifying. The RIA cost challenge report published earlier this year suggested a cost of £750k-£1m per single track kilometre. I believe the branch is approx. 16stk which equates to a cost of £12m-£16m. As suggested up thread people seem to expect that the physical features of the branch should make it a relatively cheap scheme. No coalfields, former double track, potential for 7 day access etc
     
  17. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    The potential for 7 day access especially over say xmas-new year but well clear of main tourism season should make it far easier than Manchester to Preston for example.
     
  18. swissrailpassion

    swissrailpassion Member

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    Well said.
    It is simple common sense to electrify it. That, however, is in very short supply at the DfT.
     
  19. td97

    td97 Member

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    Environmental concerns definitely aren't a problem. Every project, National Park locality or not, has in depth and detailed environmental studies and reviews etc., which always aim to completely minimise any distruption to the environment. More comprehensive than most on here could imagine.
    Even the local MP, who whinged beyond belief when there were no train services in the aftermath of the May 2018 TT change, advocates the electrification which clearly brings about temporary distruption/closures.
    Time will tell. Nothing electrification-related has happened on the ground in the North for almost a year now (apart from renewals). Although Windermere isn't next (to the best of my knowledge).
     
  20. fulmar

    fulmar Member

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    Some track realignment would be required. There are three locations where the track passes through one side of an arch overbridge where there is insufficient clearance for the wires. Adding a loop would also significantly increase the complexity of the signalling system.
     
  21. bluenoxid

    bluenoxid Established Member

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    Has anyone stated that they want to operate a second train on the line
     
  22. twpsaesneg

    twpsaesneg Member

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    Design started on this about 2 years ago but was stopped again almost immediately. At that time the scheme was to allow "passive provision" for a passing loop near but not at Burneside if memory serves. There was some upgrade work required to one of the crossings too.
     
  23. alangla

    alangla Member

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    In previous discussions, the big feature that reduces costs is that it could be end-fed from the OHLE at Oxenholme with no feeder station required. I’m still surprised it wasn’t done in the 1970s when the WCML was wired, similar to how North Berwick was done with the ECML electrification
     
  24. Steamysandy

    Steamysandy Member

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    The 1970s Electrification was to do only what was necessary for the WCML, and no more. Done properly, the entire Blackpool - Manchester - Bolton - Preston and the Liverpool lines should have been done at that time - not nearly 50 years later!
     
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  25. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Yes, strikes me as an 'obvious' candidate for a blockade in a quiet period of the year to do in a big bang.

    Presumably there wasn't much point without Manchester, Liverpool etc. being done, unless you wanted a lonely no-mates EMU just for the purposes of working the branch shuttle. Better to keep a common pool of DMUs with Barrow, Morecambe, etc.
     
  26. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    Oxenholme ATFS is a Traction Feeder station so very little voltage drop to feed the Windermere Branch
     
  27. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Presumably there is spare capacity at said feeder station to cover electric services on the branch?
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, there is, that's why it's such a cheap job to wire it, which is why it should be done.
     
  29. alangla

    alangla Member

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    A 4 car 350 type unit at Windermere branch speeds isn’t likely to tax an overhead feeder sized for 92s or 2x86/90 on heavy container trains or multiple Pendolini doing standing starts from Oxenholme station
     
  30. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Then why did the SoS use it as one of the reasons (or benefits) for cancelling the scheme and using bi-modes?
     
  31. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    As somebody once said "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"
    Has he produced (or has anyone else got) any evidence to back up the claim? Even today I'm not aware that politicians are noted for their truthfulness! Presumably you didn't read https://www.thecumbrialep.co.uk/wp-...y-of-Lake-District-line-rail-improvements.pdf which says
     
    Last edited: 8 Sep 2019

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