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Windows 11

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mikeg

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Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm an occasional Windows user, though I mostly use Ubuntu on the desktop. Already learnt my laptop is not recommended for upgrade as TPM 2.0 is recommended however apparently the hard upgrade floor allows for 1.2, which is what it has. Also disappointed to see secure boot (restricted boot) mandated which would make it a pain to dual boot certain systems. This is something I currently have turned off on my desktop due to use of a legacy raid oprom . I also have the TPM off and not sure which version it is. I have a Dell Poweredge T20 small server with upgraded graphics repurposed as a workstation, which actually works very well, especially for the price, so am reluctant to update the hardware. I may well just cease using Windows after the support period for 10 ceases...
Any thoughts? Also I can't find which version of the TPM I have in my desktop. I have the Xeon version of the T20 by the way.

The only time I found windows useful in the past few months was actually when giving a presentation at work and needing to use Miracast as that or Apple TV were the only options for casting to the display, it lacking an input compatible with my laptop.
 
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JamesT

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Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm an occasional Windows user, though I mostly use Ubuntu on the desktop. Already learnt my laptop is not recommended for upgrade as TPM 2.0 is recommended however apparently the hard upgrade floor allows for 1.2, which is what it has. Also disappointed to see secure boot (restricted boot) mandated which would make it a pain to dual boot certain systems. This is something I currently have turned off on my desktop due to use of a legacy raid oprom . I also have the TPM off and not sure which version it is. I have a Dell Poweredge T20 small server with upgraded graphics repurposed as a workstation, which actually works very well, especially for the price, so am reluctant to update the hardware. I may well just cease using Windows after the support period for 10 ceases...
Any thoughts? Also I can't find which version of the TPM I have in my desktop. I have the Xeon version of the T20 by the way.

The only time I found windows useful in the past few months was actually when giving a presentation at work and needing to use Miracast as that or Apple TV were the only options for casting to the display, it lacking an input compatible with my laptop.

I think it's a good thing that this is being mandated as it brings up the level. Being able to rely on security features in the hardware being there helps all of us.
I'm not sure quite what the status of the Secure Boot requirement is, https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11 says "Capable" and the compatibility checker seemed fine with this PC that has it turned off (though it could be turned on).
If you're already running Windows on a system, tpm.msc or Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Security -> Device Security will tell you what kind of TPM you have.
 

Worm

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Windows 11 is a weird frankenstein operating system composed of Windows 10, Android and Linux.

I'll stick with plain old Linux thank you very much.

Remember when Windows 10 was launched? It was said to be the answer to all problems.

They also said it was going to be the last ever Windows, which turned out to be a blatant lie.
 

Class320

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Windows 11 is a weird frankenstein operating system composed of Windows 10, Android and Linux.

I'll stick with plain old Linux thank you very much.



They also said it was going to be the last ever Windows, which turned out to be a blatant lie.

Are companies not allowed to change their mind and introduce a new product?
 

nlogax

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I installed it a week ago. It's fine. Bit different in the UI dept, less cluttered, as stable as any Win10 insider builds. More slight evolution than revolution.

Not a surprise that this was happening though. MS couldn't keep marketing Win10 forever unless they decided to go the Apple route with build names taking sales focus over the version numbers.
 

the sniper

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Not a surprise that this was happening though. MS couldn't keep marketing Win10 forever unless they decided to go the Apple route with build names taking sales focus over the version numbers.

Which begs the question, why did anybody think saying 'this will be the last version of Windows' made sense?! Particularly given that it wasn't that long ago...
 

londonteacher

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Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm an occasional Windows user, though I mostly use Ubuntu on the desktop. Already learnt my laptop is not recommended for upgrade as TPM 2.0 is recommended however apparently the hard upgrade floor allows for 1.2, which is what it has. Also disappointed to see secure boot (restricted boot) mandated which would make it a pain to dual boot certain systems. This is something I currently have turned off on my desktop due to use of a legacy raid oprom . I also have the TPM off and not sure which version it is. I have a Dell Poweredge T20 small server with upgraded graphics repurposed as a workstation, which actually works very well, especially for the price, so am reluctant to update the hardware. I may well just cease using Windows after the support period for 10 ceases...
Any thoughts? Also I can't find which version of the TPM I have in my desktop. I have the Xeon version of the T20 by the way.

The only time I found windows useful in the past few months was actually when giving a presentation at work and needing to use Miracast as that or Apple TV were the only options for casting to the display, it lacking an input compatible with my laptop.
I'm using Windows 11 currently and it's great. A much needed refresh of an old OS.

The safety feature such as TPM and secure boot are great as they protect the device further.

Nobody has to upgrade to Windows 11.
 

nlogax

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I think it's a good thing that this is being mandated as it brings up the level. Being able to rely on security features in the hardware being there helps all of us.
I'm not sure quite what the status of the Secure Boot requirement is, https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11 says "Capable" and the compatibility checker seemed fine with this PC that has it turned off (though it could be turned on).
If you're already running Windows on a system, tpm.msc or Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Security -> Device Security will tell you what kind of TPM you have.

If you have a relatively recent CPU and mainboard you should be fine. Enable integrated TPM for your Intel or AMD CPU via your bios. PTT or PSP / fTPM respectively, no need to buy a separate h/w TPM.
 

WelshBluebird

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Windows 11 is a weird frankenstein operating system composed of Windows 10, Android and Linux.
That isn't really fair. WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux - which was introduced in Windows 10 btw) is pretty cool, especially speaking as a software developer. And adding the ability to run android apps (which Chrome OS has been able to do for ages, and remember Mac OS runs iPad apps now too) just adds extra flexibility for people - if you don't like it just don't use any android apps on there!
 

najaB

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And adding the ability to run android apps (which Chrome OS has been able to do for ages, and remember Mac OS runs iPad apps now too) just adds extra flexibility for people - if you don't like it just don't use any android apps on there!
It's really just a final admission that Windows Phone/Windows Mobile is dead.
 

JamesT

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That isn't really fair. WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux - which was introduced in Windows 10 btw) is pretty cool, especially speaking as a software developer. And adding the ability to run android apps (which Chrome OS has been able to do for ages, and remember Mac OS runs iPad apps now too) just adds extra flexibility for people - if you don't like it just don't use any android apps on there!

These facilities also aren't changing the core fundamentals of the OS, it's providing runtime environments for applications. Which has a long history in the Windows NT OS (from which Windows 11 is the latest iteration). There were OS/2 and POSIX subsystems alongside the Windows one to be able to run applications designed for those systems.
These days they're using the virtualisation capabilities so there's more separation and it's effectively a full copy of Linux or Android running with a shim to allow interaction.

It's really just a final admission that Windows Phone/Windows Mobile is dead.

Windows 10 Mobile died when they announced they had stopped developing for it in 2017 - https://pocketnow.com/rip-windows-10-mobile-official-announcement
Which was a shame, I thought my Lumia 620 and 735 were excellent phones for the time. I kept mine until December 2019 when they pulled the plug on support, but even before that some apps had stopped working.
 

nlogax

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Or was that when they announced the Surface Duo (which runs Android) almost 2 years ago!

It has been a rough old journey for Microsoft to adapt to the mobile processor world. Anyone here use Windows RT? 10 S? Apps that can only run on a subset of the whole Windows platform was pretty problematic for some time With Windows 11 it'll be encouraging to see the traditional and x64 spaces finally coming together with something a bit more cohesive.
 

malc-c

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It's really just a final admission that Windows Phone/Windows Mobile is dead.

I still use a Nokia 520 windows phone :) - it makes calls just fine.... isn't that what phones are for :) - On a serious note, I don't bother with apps etc so have no need to update it. I might only make a handful of calls a month so there is no point in upgrading it.

Re Windows 11... the biggest restriction that will prevent a lot of people migrating to it is the hardware restrictions. In the past there might have been a decent improvement in updating hardware, but these days the speed of hardware over the past five years has stabilised, with processors remaining around the 3.5Ghz - 4Ghz speeds, people are far less likely to update a perfectly decent performing PC. My main PC is just four years old. It's a 1st gen Ryzen 1500x at 3.5Ghz, has 16GB of vengeance RAM, and a fast Samsung Nvme hard drive... The RX550 graphics plays train sim just fine, but with the processor being 1st gen AMD it's not supported under Win11. With the current shortage CPU's are in short supply, and those that are available are twice the price they were pre Covid.

Maybe by the time support for Win10 finally stops MS will realise that they have lost a decent share of the market as people migrate to Linux that these hardware restrictions are patched so people with older hardware can use Win11 ?
 

nlogax

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Maybe by the time support for Win10 finally stops MS will realise that they have lost a decent share of the market as people migrate to Linux that these hardware restrictions are patched so people with older hardware can use Win11 ?

I don't see a widespread move to Linux anytime soon. Every year has been 'the year of Linux on the desktop' since 1998 and it still hasn't really happened. People will just carry on regardless with their old Windows versions until their PCs physically grind to a halt. 15% of Windows users still run Win7. Hell, Windows XP still lives on in some parts.
 

najaB

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Hell, Windows XP still lives on in some parts.
My company is *just* dropping support for Windows XP. And we've had to tread very gently around it as there are some surprisingly important systems running XP that can't be upgraded.
 

nlogax

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My company is *just* dropping support for Windows XP. And we've had to tread very gently around it as there are some surprisingly important systems running XP that can't be upgraded.
Not a surprise, XP was hugely popular. I see that a lot on client systems (in VMs of course) XP.. Win2K, hell, NT4 running major software packages in places. Ideally firewalled to infinity and beyond.
 

malc-c

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Oh Granted, people will still be using older versions of windows back to XP, and as you mention, a lot of companies still use custom software for a unique purpose that can't be updated. Up until recently the PC in my home observatory was running windows 7 that wasn't even SP1. The software to control the telescope, cameras and drivers for 10 year old kit all worked so it was locked in that state. But on recommendation i was advised to try a new telescope control application... I had to update the common platform a lot of APIs use, into turn that would only work on windows 10, so the PC got an update only for me to find out that the drivers for my old MK1 version guidecamera were not compatible so more hunting for a suitable driver... two days after faffing around I re-imaged the machine back to its old sate....so its still running basic win7... but it all works !
 

Strathclyder

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Not a surprise, XP was hugely popular. I see that a lot on client systems (in VMs of course) XP.. Win2K, hell, NT4 running major software packages in places. Ideally firewalled to infinity and beyond.
I recall back in my old high school (this was the 2008-09 year), one of my music teachers had a Windows 2000 system running, which stood out from nearly every other system I saw there (XP) and was a marked contrast to my first laptop (Vista; I got on fine with the Vista devices I had, before anyone asks lol). As extended support for 2000 ended in July 2010, I expect my music teacher upgraded her OS at some point (chances are she did when I had her, but simply can't remember lol), while XP - predictably - remained the system of choice at my old high school right up 'til I left in June 2012.
 

nlogax

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As extended support for 2000 ended in July 2010, I expect my music teacher upgraded her OS at some point (chances are she did when I had her, but simply can't remember lol), while XP - predictably - remained the system of choice at my old high school right up 'til I left in June 2012.

Win2K really was a great OS. That clean WinME style but without any of the underlying 16-bit flakiness. Absolutely rock solid!
 

JamesT

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Win2K really was a great OS. That clean WinME style but without any of the underlying 16-bit flakiness. Absolutely rock solid!

Win2K came first. Back when it was still being called NT 5.0 in development there were plans for a home edition, but they decided in the end that it needed more work on multimedia etc. before it would be ready for a consumer release. So that was punted to 'Neptune' and WinMe was produced as a refresh on Windows 98SE.
After some rejigging of priorities, 'Neptune' became 'Whistler' and Windows XP was the first consumer release built on the NT foundations.
I was also a happy Win2k user. I got cheaper licences for that and Visual Studio through the student scheme of the time. Much better than 98SE, especially when it came to doing long runs overnight.
 

nlogax

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Win2K came first. Back when it was still being called NT 5.0 in development there were plans for a home edition, but they decided in the end that it needed more work on multimedia etc. before it would be ready for a consumer release. So that was punted to 'Neptune' and WinMe was produced as a refresh on Windows 98SE.

Ah, that would make sense. I was running a DC at the time and recall that we didn't get Win2K for about a year after release, while I had been testing WinME on a home machine briefly before giving up and reverting to Win98SE. Meanwhile everything in the DC was merrily chugging away on NT4 and Novell. Happy times with the exception of NDS for NT from which I still bear the scars.
 

prod_pep

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Not a surprise, XP was hugely popular. I see that a lot on client systems (in VMs of course) XP.. Win2K, hell, NT4 running major software packages in places. Ideally firewalled to infinity and beyond.
Good old XP - always a pleasure to use. We still have a sole surviving XP machine at work which was in use until Dropbox ended their support of the operating system a couple of years ago. Still my favourite iteration of Windows, although I genuinely like Windows 10.

As for Windows 11, the centred taskbar is an interesting idea in these days of widescreen monitors. I'm glad to see the tiles dropped from the start menu as I find them pointless and rather ugly; the new start menu looks cleaner and tidier.
 

dgl

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At college in ~2006 the machines we had to run VMWARE (that were found in a cupboard and had to be put back every time to stop other classes robbing them of parts!) had WIN2K on them, primarily because they weren't exactly powerhouses and finding one with even 512MB of ram was rare, something that is really needed when you are asking said machine to run two instances of WIN2K (main OS + VMWARE) and WIN 2K Advanced Server in VMWARE on one machine!
Later XP laptops were provided but only near the end of the course, and they still caused issues due to the lack of legacy ports which was only partially sorted by a USB dock.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Which begs the question, why did anybody think saying 'this will be the last version of Windows' made sense?! Particularly given that it wasn't that long ago...

It really didn't make sense. I recall when MS said it would be the last version of Windows, and I was thinking 'What, like - we're still going to be using Windows 10 in 50 years' time?!?!' It also puzzled me from a commercial point of view - since selling licenses for new Windows versions was supposedly a major part of MS's revenue, why would they give that revenue up?
 

dosxuk

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since selling licenses for new Windows versions was supposedly a major part of MS's revenue, why would they give that revenue up?
They weren't. People weren't going to be using 50 year old machines running Windows 10. Every time you buy a new computer, that's a new licence fee in to MS's wallet. The vast majority of Windows licences sold are OEM ones that die with the hardware they are first installed on.

The main idea of only ever having one version of Windows going forwards was to stop the hold-outs and reduce support costs. The same people who didn't want to install previous major updates of Windows were also quite happy to install "service pack x" on their current version. The plan was that going forward, there would be regular service pack sized updates, and in fact, Windows 10 now is quite a different beast to Windows 10 on launch date (just look at how much more stuff has moved into the Settings app compared to day one).

However, once again, a decision made for quite sensible reasons has been overridden by Microsoft's marketing department. Nobody really cares what name the operating system they have on their computer is. The updated UI was already pencilled in for the next Windows 10 update, it just looks like someone in Marketing has gone "oh, you've moved the start menu away from it's infinite corner*, we should call it something different!".


* The reason the start button was in the lower left is to take advantage of the infinite target size according to Fitt's Law. Original designs included some with centred options, but it was found in testing that the usability of those designs was lower than the aligned options. The same rule applies to the application control menu (top left) and window close button (top right). They've not ended up in those positions by accident.
 
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