Wires Down At Hest Bank

[QueensCurve]

There has been much discussion previously about the relative merits of OHLE and third rail electrification and it's been said by informed people that the two are fairly similar in their frequency of failure. However, my gut feeling is that this balance has shifted dramatically of late to OHLE having been far more frail. Is it simply that the OHLE failures have been more dramatic? I'm obviously not advocating juice rails over the Northern fells, by the way!

Only really a discussion in Little Britain. Other countries rarely have any third rail. I would really like to see a comparison of OHLE failure rates with other countries and to ask why ours fares so badly. I don't think it is purely the use of headspan wires. I have travelled on a lengthy 4 track route in Germany that uses headspan wires.

Personally I think the WCML needs some serious upgrading to the OHLE. It seems to be happening a bit more often, puts the ECML to shame.

Much comment has dismissed the ECML OHLE as fragile. My understanding is that when properly maintained there are fewer failures. If, in this case, there was an ADD drop on a set earlier in the day we need to ask why action wasn't taken before the wires were brought down. Had there been a suspected failure trains could have coasted through "pan down" pending an overnight inspection/repair. Again perhaps other countries do better.

Seems a good reason to improve road access to Oxenholme - shorter RRBs and better use as a Parkway.

Using Oxenholme as a terminus for trains to turn back is presently a non-starter and not just because of poor road access. The recent resignalling provided an up direction turnback signal on P2 but didn't, despite a request from TOCs provide a down direction turnback of P1. That would have required an additional trailing Xover at the north end. None such exists.

Carlisle and Preston are both all platforms reversible stations with more suitable facilities for early turnback. Another question might be why the biderectional platforms recently provided at Lancaster weren't used as the turnback point. This might have been better for passengers. I suspect it reflects the fact that Preston is a routine crew change point and that, with traincrews held up further North they were not available to operate the sets between Lancaster and Preston. Providing a Preston to Lancaster shuttle seems sensible although it seems to have taken too long to get it going.

 

[QueensCurve]

There’s been numerous weekend engineering closures throughout the last 20 years where all northbound passengers have needed to change onto busses there for onward transport to Penrith & Carlisle

I travelled on one such day. That was before the recent resignalling and it was possible, on a planned weekend possession, to use P2 as a turnback to head of South again. This facility has been enhanced and there is now an up direction signal at the end of P2. It doesn't work for trains terminating from the North as there is no Down direction signal or trailing Xover at the North end.

 

[KieronQuinn]

Carlisle and Preston are both all platforms reversible stations with more suitable facilities for early turnback. Another question might be why the biderectional platforms recently provided at Lancaster weren't used as the turnback point. This might have been better for passengers. I suspect it reflects the fact that Preston is a routine crew change point and that, with traincrews held up further North they were not available to operate the sets between Lancaster and Preston. Providing a Preston to Lancaster shuttle seems sensible although it seems to have taken too long to get it going.

The reason TPE were giving to passengers on Twitter asking why Lancaster wasn't being used to turn around rather than Preston was that it gets congested easily, whether that's true or it was just the reason they were told to give passengers I'm not sure.

 

[underbank]

If, in this case, there was an ADD drop on a set earlier in the day we need to ask why action wasn't taken before the wires were brought down. Had there been a suspected failure trains could have coasted through "pan down" pending an overnight inspection/repair.

Similar happened at Bay Horse, a couple of months ago, just South of Lancaster. Northbound train stopped due to a problem, but after a delay, trains were re-started which resulted in the following train bringing the wires down which also trapped 3 closely following trains (held because of the earlier fault and then proceeding close together so all caught up in it).

 

[underbank]

The reason TPE were giving to passengers on Twitter asking why Lancaster wasn't being used to turn around rather than Preston was that it gets congested easily, whether that's true or it was just the reason they were told to give passengers I'm not sure.

If they are never going to use it that way, why all the money and disruption putting in the new points and signalling to make the platforms bi-di?

 

[KieronQuinn]

If they are never going to use it that way, why all the money and disruption putting in the new points and signalling to make the platforms bi-di?

It got some use, just not every train from the Airport or Euston turned there, most used Preston instead. I guess some is better than none, removes some of the need for a shuttle bus.

 

[QueensCurve]

If they are never going to use it that way, why all the money and disruption putting in the new points and signalling to make the platforms bi-di?

I certainly have seen it used both for unexpected failures and planned work. I also was recently routed into P4 on the 1315 Brum to Glasgow so that the Barrow connection off P5 could be maintained. I had to move quickly as I had already resigned myself to missing it and going via Carlisle.

 

[92002]

Looking at the photo of the damage posted yesterday on the National Rail site it appears to be where the single line to Bare Lane diverges and runs parallel to the WCML for some distance. The photo shows a headspan structure and the sagging contact wire appears to be the run-off wire which runs for a short distance along the Bare Lane line. My guess is that the point of damage is where the Bare Lane line connects to the down WCML.

Perhaps the problems at these exposed locations lies with the spacing of the structures being too far apart. With additional ones being needed between. This was done a number of years ago at similar locations, but maybe not done at Hest Bank.