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With e-scooters set to become legal in the near future, what does that mean for car drivers (the lowest class citizen) on the roads?

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Socanxdis

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Bus lanes, cycle Lanes, 20 mph speeds, being overtaken by electric cycles and now e-scooters. Is there any point to owning a car in a city?
 
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PTR 444

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In congested areas, I could see a scenario where car drivers park on the outskirts of town then hire an e-scooter for the final leg of the journey from there. Perhaps we could even see more scooter hiring facilities at park and ride sites, or even dedicated “park and scoot” sites.
 
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Giugiaro

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I don't know how the UK is managing this issue. In Portugal, the benefit of an e-Scooter over Bicycles is that they are allowed on all forms of public transport for free.
They are easy to stow and thus are regarded as hand luggage.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't know how the UK is managing this issue. In Portugal, the benefit of an e-Scooter over Bicycles is that they are allowed on all forms of public transport for free.
They are easy to stow and thus are regarded as hand luggage.

Once they are properly regulated, and e.g. only CE/UKCA approved models are allowed to be sold, I suspect they'll be allowed once more. They are only banned now due to incendiary batteries on cheap uncertified imports. They're smaller than most luggage when folded so are something that would go very well with other modes.
 

Bletchleyite

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Are they being legalised in the UK then..?

Yes, the Queen's Speech said legislation will be brought forward in this Parliament. Interestingly they will be legalised not as bicycles/e-bikes (which is where I think they should sit) but as a special category of "low speed electric vehicle" for which presumably a driving licence will remain mandatory and children won't be allowed to ride them. Safety was also mentioned, so I'd expect speed limits by law and possibly mandatory helmet wearing, and possibly some sort of test, online perhaps? I suppose an advantage of a licence being required is that a ban could be given for misuse. It would be good if purchase required a licence to be produced.

I suppose it also provides for future regulation of other classes of low-speed electric vehicle which have not yet been invented.
 

GS250

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Personally, I have not driven from Harrow into London for over 25 years. It simply doesn't make sense.

However, we can ill afford a situation where only the wealthiest still continue to drive cars in cities, be it electric or not.
 

GS250

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Can't we?

Absolutely not. If we are aiming to pedestrianise and de-car areas then it has to be universal. Cannot have the likes of London's pseudo-oligarchy or cleb types continuing to absolutely tear about in high performance vehicles with the rest of us confined to an overgrown kids toy. Socially...just absolutely unacceptable.
 

Bletchleyite

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Absolutely not. If we are aiming to pedestrianise and de-car areas then it has to be universal. Cannot have the likes of London's pseudo-oligarchy or cleb types continuing to absolutely tear about in high performance vehicles with the rest of us confined to an overgrown kids toy. Socially...just absolutely unacceptable.

I don't overly care, to be frank. If it's only a small number of cars as it was in say the 1940s, the few that are there aren't really a problem. Who owns them isn't important.
 

Bletchleyite

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And they have no insurance, unless they are the hired ones.

Insurance is of no relevance whatsoever to carrying a piece of luggage on a train. I'm not insured to carry a power bank, either.

I suspect insurance will be a requirement, FWIW. And I imagine very, very cheap.
 

2192

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Insurance is of no relevance whatsoever to carrying a piece of luggage on a train. I'm not insured to carry a power bank, either.

I suspect insurance will be a requirement, FWIW. And I imagine very, very cheap.
We seem to be commenting on two different things! Banned from public transport because of unstable batteries. Banned from the roads unless hired because of no insurance. The cost of insurance will depend on how many pedestrians they knock over, as electric scooter riders seem to think the pavement is theirs. It isn't.
 

Bletchleyite

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We seem to be commenting on two different things! Banned from public transport because of unstable batteries. Banned from the roads unless hired because of no insurance. The cost of insurance will depend on how many pedestrians they knock over, as electric scooter riders seem to think the pavement is theirs. It isn't.

Banned from the road because they do not pass Construction & Use regulations for a motorcycle, which is what they legally are at present. Insurance is a small factor.
 

GusB

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I firmly disagree with the thread title; car drivers are most certainly not the lowest class citizens on the road!

As far as e-scooters are concerned, I don't see much difference between them and e-bikes.
 

lachlan

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The thread title is clearly false when in many areas one must push the button twice to cross, and be trapped in an island between two car lanes. All because we can't possibly stop both directions of traffic at the same time!
 

dorsetdesiro

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Commuting from the outskirts with scooters & bikes could work well in flatter places like the Netherlands & Denmark. Not so effortless in this country because who would want to commute with a bike or scooter in heavy rain or snow also down & up steep hills in places like Bradford or Edinburgh!
 

Bletchleyite

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Not so effortless in this country because who would want to commute with a bike or scooter in heavy rain or snow

Our climate is almost identical to that of the Netherlands and Denmark, save for that snow is much more likely in Denmark than here!

also down & up steep hills in places like Bradford or Edinburgh!

Umm, they are electric scooters, so hills aren't effort for you, the scooter does it!
 

Mcr Warrior

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When is it considered likely that e-scooters will actually become legal? This year? Next year? Later than that?
 

geoffk

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Yes, the Queen's Speech said legislation will be brought forward in this Parliament. Interestingly they will be legalised not as bicycles/e-bikes (which is where I think they should sit) but as a special category of "low speed electric vehicle" for which presumably a driving licence will remain mandatory and children won't be allowed to ride them. Safety was also mentioned, so I'd expect speed limits by law and possibly mandatory helmet wearing, and possibly some sort of test, online perhaps? I suppose an advantage of a licence being required is that a ban could be given for misuse. It would be good if purchase required a licence to be produced.

I suppose it also provides for future regulation of other classes of low-speed electric vehicle which have not yet been invented.
and segways?
 

py_megapixel

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Bus lanes, cycle Lanes, 20 mph speeds, being overtaken by electric cycles and now e-scooters. Is there any point to owning a car in a city?
If live somewhere with lots of bus and cycle lanes, and you find being overtaken by buses or bicycles annoying, then you can solve that by getting on a bus or a bicycle. It really is that simple.
 

WelshBluebird

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As far as e-scooters are concerned, I don't see much difference between them and e-bikes.
The main difference is that officially at least, e-bikes in the UK should be pedal assist and not fully electric, meaning you still have to be pedaling to get any boost from the electric motor (though of course in reality there are plenty of grey market add ons and downright illegal e-bikes that are sold that circumvent all that). While e-scooters are full self propelled once you are on them.

Because of that, e-bikes are still classed as bicycles which means you don't need a license or insurance etc, but e-scooters are classed as a motor vehicle like a motorbike is, but because you essentially can't get insurance for riding one because that category simply doesn't exist yet, it is illegal to ride them on public roads (which is why its legal to buy one, but not to ride it on a road).
 
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Wynd

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The premise of this thread needs a firm dose of reality.

If we look at spending on car related policies, versus that spent on active travel, and even rail, we can see the car continues to reign supreme.

E Scooters, along with a host of E-machines, should be given far more road space than exists at present.

Active travel is cheaper, more affordable and far better use of resources than everyone driving a car.
 

AndrewE

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The premise of this thread needs a firm dose of reality.

If we look at spending on car related policies, versus that spent on active travel, and even rail, we can see the car continues to reign supreme.
E Scooters, along with a host of E-machines, should be given far more road space than exists at present.
Active travel is cheaper, more affordable and far better use of resources than everyone driving a car.
Agreed: The OP is obviously being provocative with the title, but they need to look at which classes of vehicles (or their drivers) cause the most deaths and injuries, and recognise that a significant proportion of those victims are pedestrians on the pavement.

My feeling is that a good proportion should have their licenses taken off them, I would start with mandatory testing every 5 years after 65, and a lot more traffic police out and about and pulling people over.

One of my "favourites" is cars leaving unsignalled roundabouts at high speed without indicating. We have had several near-misses on Tommy's Lane by Crewe Station, and at other junctions too. If drivers can't be bothered to indicate it gives more vulnerable road users no chance of crossing side-roads.
 

nw1

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It's really not that bad for car drivers IMX and certainly don't agree with the phrase "the lowest class citizen". I don't own a car but where I am you can get around in one no problem.

Personally if we're discussing transport problems in urban and suburban areas, IMX the most pressing issues are that there are not enough friendly routes for cyclists (too much funnelling cycle routes along busy roads) and a lack of peak increase on bus routes, in fact a peak decrease in bus frequency (as in, the peak frequency in the morning is 67% of the off-peak frequency).
 

gabrielhj07

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Very little point. I was in Chiswick the other day and found myself horrified at the state of the roads. Turning right onto the high street, expecting the lanes to be where they normally are, yet near-on a third of the entire road width was pure cycle lane. Worse, it was the sort that are protected by metal poles. In the middle of the road, barely enough space for two cars to pass. Something of a joke really, especially when cyclists don't pay road tax.
 
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