With Theresa under threat - may mean failing Grayling goes?

[GRALISTAIR]

With Theresa under threat - it really does seem she can not really hold on to power, do you think that means a new Transport Secretary and - failing Grayling goes? So no more Grayling Gaps in electrification.

I hope Grayling goes. My 2 cents

 

[RichmondCommu]

With Theresa under threat - it really does seem she can not really hold on to power, do you think that means a new Transport Secretary and - failing Grayling goes? So no more Grayling Gaps in electrification.

I hope Grayling goes. My 2 cents

Surely government policy would remain the same no matter who the Transport Secretary was? The government has clearly lost faith in Network Rail to deliver new electrification projects and I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Surely government policy would remain the same no matter who the Transport Secretary was? The government has clearly lost faith in Network Rail to deliver new electrification projects and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Not quite sure I agree- when we went from Cameron/McLaughlin to May/Failing Grayling - things changed big time. Surely if a government/PM etc are under threat things may change - after all Corbyn et al have kicked up a fuss about Transport. My opinion

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not quite sure I agree- when we went from Cameron/McLaughlin to May/Failing Grayling - things changed big time. Surely if a government/PM etc are under threat things may change - after all Corbyn et al have kicked up a fuss about Transport. My opinion

The thing is whoever is heading up the department is faced with the same problems regarding Network Rail. It would perhaps be a case of not what they want to do but on the other hand what can be done. Jeremy Corbyn stated that he wanted to electrify in the direction of Plymouth but didn't mention anything else, certainly not in the speech that he made at the party conference. And sadly I think Labour's big chance of getting into Government was during the elections in the summer.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Not quite sure I agree- when we went from Cameron/McLaughlin to May/Failing Grayling - things changed big time.

That is probably more to do with timing than personalities. The whole electrification programme hadn't fallen apart when McLaughlin was SoS. If he'd remained the outcome would probably have been the same.

People really do need to stop blaming politicians for Network Rail's failings.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely government policy would remain the same no matter who the Transport Secretary was? The government has clearly lost faith in Network Rail to deliver new electrification projects and I don't see that changing any time soon.

As we're in General Discussion, I'd hope that Jeremy *rhyming-expletive* is first on the hit-list. I can only assume that the only reason he's still in his post is because Zombie Thatcher thought "It's YOUR mess so YOU can clean it up!"...
Then again if Boris Johnson ends up as PM we'll have bigger things to worry about! A guy who only the other day said he wanted to blast the Leader of the Opposition into space. Whatever one's political affiliation surely such talk has no place in our political discourse.

 

[tbtc]

Surely government policy would remain the same no matter who the Transport Secretary was? The government has clearly lost faith in Network Rail to deliver new electrification projects and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Agreed - Grayling is just the guy left holding the position of Minister when the music stopped - he's not to blame for the problems with Network Rail and I can't believe that any other Government MP is going to give NR back their blank chequebook (especially if they are now finding the money to pay for public sector pay rises, energy freezes and all of this stuff that was dangerously leftwing when Miliband suggested it).

Surely if a government/PM etc are under threat things may change - after all Corbyn et al have kicked up a fuss about Transport. My opinion

Jeremy Corbyn stated that he wanted to electrify in the direction of Plymouth but didn't mention anything else, certainly not in the speech that he made at the party conference

For a guy who seems to care a lot about the railways and seems to know a lot about the railways (relative to other politicians at least), Corbyn's actual policies and pledges towards the railway seem pretty thin - he wants nationalisation, sure, but he's not explained what that would held us achieve (in practical terms).

No real commitments to actual improvements, lukewarm on HS2, but must have nationalisation ... without giving much in the way of details.

That is probably more to do with timing than personalities. The whole electrification programme hadn't fallen apart when McLaughlin was SoS. If he'd remained the outcome would probably have been the same.

People really do need to stop blaming politicians for Network Rail's failings.

Total agreement - I've never voted Tory in my life but I'm struggling to blame them for Network Rail's failure to electrify lines to a budget that Network Rail had committed to and at a price that Network Rail had committed to.

In the circumstances, descoping it so that the GWML is wired as far as Cardiff (with Oxford/ Bristol dependent upon other infrastructure improvements and the MML kicked into the long grass) seems reasonably pragmatic. I'd have preferred them to find the money from somewhere, but I can understand why they have lost patience - it's not like the Government don't have other things to spend money on (social housing, the car-crash that is Brexit...).

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

With Theresa under threat - it really does seem she can not really hold on to power, do you think that means a new Transport Secretary and - failing Grayling goes? So no more Grayling Gaps in electrification.

I hope Grayling goes. My 2 cents

I'm not sure that she's actually under any real threat at all. While the government may at times appear to be a lame duck as long as it retains the support of the DUP it can carry on quite happily even if some grass-roots members are a little nervous. And even if May was removed from the leadership that does not necessarily mean that Grayling would go: he is there to provide a balance between Brexiteers and Remainers in the Cabinet. In fact I would suggest his obvious incompetence as a minister shows all too clearly that this "Brexit balance" is the only reason for him being a minister!

I said many months ago during one of the Brexit discussions that it would be better for the country if the Conservatives would actually have their civil war over Europe rather than going on trying to patch things up after every row. But being in office they would rather hang on to power than risk being honest with us! And yes I would be very happy to see Grayling go, preferably out of Parliament altogether, but I'm not holding my breathe.

 

[Busaholic]

Grayling was the first minister (and, more importantly the first Brexiteer) to come out for May when she declared her leadership bid: no doubt they had a cosy relationship when she was Home Secretary and he was Minister of Justice, the worst ever, but then it's a fairly new post. Everyone knows he lives up to his name and no interviewer ever gets a straight answer out of him. Unfortunately every government appears to harbour at least one Grayling, although this government seems to have got a clutch of them (Truss, IDS, Patel, I could go on...) If the appalling Johnson gets the job, or even D.Davis, then at least Grayling will be out on his ear: almost worth bringing it on.

 

[IanXC]

Something which has gone a little quiet of late is the idea of further devolving the NR Routes. I can see a scenario where another minister would be more inclined to play the routes off against each other, and award investment in a more competitive way between them.

This could be attractive to a Secretary of State who wants to push that agenda, and give suitable explanation to the Treasury to extract some more cash for rail infrastructure!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Something which has gone a little quiet of late is the idea of further devolving the NR Routes. I can see a scenario where another minister would be more inclined to play the routes off against each other, and award investment in a more competitive way between them.

This could be attractive to a Secretary of State who wants to push that agenda, and give suitable explanation to the Treasury to extract some more cash for rail infrastructure!

Wow yes I had not thought of that. Good thought

 

[47802]

I don't think the Tories can afford to change Leadership at present, I also think many on here have unrealistic expectations about rail investment as if there is a magic money tree like Corbyn's Labour Party. Even with the cancelation of some electrification projects there is still a massive amount of investment in Rail.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't think the Tories can afford to change Leadership at present, I also think many on here have unrealistic expectations about rail investment as if there is a magic money tree like Corbyn's Labour Party. Even with the cancelation of some electrification projects there is still a massive amount of investment in Rail.

I agree - the problem seems to be that the magic money tree only grows in Conservative Central Office and only offers a harvest of money when the Tories need to buy off a crack pot party in NI to keep them in power..............................................

 

[47802]

I agree - the problem seems to be that the magic money tree only grows in Conservative Central Office and only offers a harvest of money when the Tories need to buy off a crack pot party in NI to keep them in power..............................................

I think its true of any party that there will be a magic money tree when political survival overrides anything else, however I thinks its a lot smaller than Labours. A Leadership contest would delay Brexit further, and the obvious contenders would seem likely to take the party further right when they need to stay in the traditional centre ground that the Labour party have vacated. According to Corbyn the centre ground has moved left to match his policies well in my world it hasn't that's for sure

 

[RichmondCommu]

I think its true of any party that there will be a magic money tree when political survival overrides anything else, however I thinks its a lot smaller than Labours. A Leadership contest would delay Brexit further, and the obvious contenders would seem likely to take the party further right when they need to stay in the traditional centre ground that the Labour party have vacated. According to Corbyn the centre ground has moved left to match his policies well in my world it hasn't that's for sure

 

[RichmondCommu]

Is that the traditional centre ground that voted for Labour in Kensington at the last election?

 

[DarloRich]

Don't panic people: TM has been on the TV this lunch time saying she has the full backing of the cabinet. Seems like the vote of confidence in a football manager!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Don't panic people: TM has been on the TV this lunch time saying she has the full backing of the cabinet. Seems like the vote of confidence in a football manager!

I feel a cabinet reshuffle is on the cards- hopefully Grayling goes and no more vote losing cancellations of electrification

 

[RichmondCommu]

I feel a cabinet reshuffle is on the cards- hopefully Grayling goes and no more vote losing cancellations of electrification

Alas I don't think those kind of announcements actually lose many votes compared to the closure of A & E wards etc.

 

[DarloRich]

Grayling is simply the patsy for central policy. He is nothing and will be gone soon enough

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think its true of any party that there will be a magic money tree when political survival overrides anything else, however I thinks its a lot smaller than Labours. A Leadership contest would delay Brexit further, and the obvious contenders would seem likely to take the party further right when they need to stay in the traditional centre ground that the Labour party have vacated. According to Corbyn the centre ground has moved left to match his policies well in my world it hasn't that's for sure.

Most of us don't live in your world though, thankfully.

Alas I don't think those kind of announcements actually lose many votes compared to the closure of A & E wards etc.

The problem with a parliamentary democracy like ours is that a proposal to close Accident and Emergency in Huddersfield* (to choose an example completely at random) is that it won't cost the Conservatives any seats as they'd never get voted in there anyway. It's pretty much the textbook example of a safe Labour seat.

*=With the caveat that Huddersfield Royal Infirmary is actually in the Colne Valley constituency which IS a marginal but currently held by Labour as of this year's vote . If there isn't an election for four and a half years, the Tories will be hoping that people in the area have short memories!

 

[pemma]

Don't panic people: TM has been on the TV this lunch time saying she has the full backing of the cabinet. Seems like the vote of confidence in a football manager!

So when she loses 1-0 on Saturday she'll face immediate dismissal.

 

[backontrack]

So when she loses 1-0 on Saturday she'll face immediate dismissal.

It's getting to the point where I genuinely believe that the Tory party would be doing better if they had Owen Coyle in charge.

 

[Howardh]

The EU should cut out the middle man and talk directly with Queen Ruth as IMO she's the only person that could lead the Tories and the country. The fly is she would have to be drafted into a Parliamentary seat so someone would have to die or resign (Maidenhead might be a start for a resignation) But that could be done within a couple of months. When I say "lead" does not mean "unite". Of course. But at least we'd have a kick-boxing lesbian Dunfirmline fan who is a strong remainer and would frighten the life out of Jong-Un when he finds out she's his long-lost sister.

 

[bramling]

Whilst May's position is far from secure, there still remains the big problem that there's no single obvious candidate to replace her with. A lot of the reason she got the job in the first place was because she was the "none of the above candidate", and the situation hasn't advanced since. Labour's position is also a mess, they also have no obvious alternative to Corbyn, and despite the issues within the Conservative party, Labour still simply isn't a viable option for many voters in its current form. I think we'd have still been in this messy position regardless of Brexit given Cameron's statement that he wouldn't fight a third election, although perhaps with the addition of one extra controversial character on the scene in the form of George Osborne.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the title of this thread, is "Failing Grayling" regarded as such in the area of the Crossrail projects, noting his recent rail financial statements?

 

[47802]

Most of us don't live in your world though, thankfully.

The problem with a parliamentary democracy like ours is that a proposal to close Accident and Emergency in Huddersfield* (to choose an example completely at random) is that it won't cost the Conservatives any seats as they'd never get voted in there anyway. It's pretty much the textbook example of a safe Labour seat.

*=With the caveat that Huddersfield Royal Infirmary is actually in the Colne Valley constituency which IS a marginal but currently held by Labour as of this year's vote . If there isn't an election for four and a half years, the Tories will be hoping that people in the area have short memories!

Well regardless of what you think of my world do you think that many people in the centre ground now think Corbyn and his Marxist thug polices are what the centre ground wants, I personally doubt it, although the Tories do need someone like Ruth Davidson to take on Corbyn, unfortunately I doubt the main Tory party would elect her and of course there is the problem that she is not an MP at present. As for Grayling I doubt she will move him.

 

[Dave1987]

Well regardless of what you think of my world do you think that many people in the centre ground now think Corbyn and his Marxist thug polices are what the centre ground wants, I personally doubt it, although the Tories do need someone like Ruth Davidson to take on Corbyn, unfortunately I doubt the main Tory party would elect her and of course there is the problem that she is not an MP at present. As for Grayling I doubt she will move him.

Most of Labours policies are frankly ridiculous under Corbyn but some of them do make sense in the long term.

If Labour were smart they would be encouraging their members to stop all discretionary, none essential spending for six months. With the economy of insecure, poorly paid work the Tories have now created the economy would start to falter very very quickly and there would be little Tories could do as it’s the economy they have created. Couple that with the massive repercussions from Brexit and it would be pretty cataclysmic for the Tories.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looking at the title of this thread, is "Failing Grayling" regarded as such in the area of the Crossrail projects, noting his recent rail financial statements?

There is absolutely no doubt Cross Rail is and will be a success as will Cross Rail 2 but Grayling can not take credit for that. What upsets me Paul as a Lifelong Conservative - my uk home is in a very safe Conservative seat of South Fylde- is that where Railways and especially electrification are concerned th Conservatives have an absolutely outstanding track record. Would hate for Grayling to cast huge doubt on that record.