Withdrawal of Services

[telstarbox]

i received a firm but fair private message from a forum admin reminding me not to use three letter codes when did so in a thread title some months ago. I accepted the light wrist slapping; a forum full of abbreviations would look very odd for the casual reader

Yes, AWY, TBH, IYWSWIM

 

[Philip C]

As to which county the line travels through as mentioned by the pedantic person there are no county boundary markers along the route and the boundaries are very oddly composed in the area.

The line appears never to be closer than 3.5 miles to the Sussex border. The entire Surrey/Kent border is remarkably straight, by British norms: between the borders with Greater London and East Sussex it never strays more than 1km (in either direction) from the TQ430 grid line. I would be intrigued to know to what your words "the boundaries are very oddly composed in the area" relates.

You may regard me as being pedantic. The correction of errors is not inappropriate to a forum such as ours. I am happy to be corrected when I make erroneous statements.

Finally I point out that you chose to draw attention to "the line being partly in Sussex", not I!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The last line to close I think was the Walsall to Wolverhampton line in 2008. The only other lines I can think that have closed since 1997 are the Sinfin Branch Line, Croxley Branch Line and part of the the North London Line.

Although the line remains open, you could also add the withdrawal of stopping trains between Stoke and Stafford in 2004 and the subsequent closure of Wedgwood and Barlaston stations.

I would guess that technically the service was never withdrawn just replaced by what was supposedly a temporary rail replacement bus service which turned out to be permanent.

 

[Mark62]

I know this will make me really unpopular but I feel that although many of the decisions by Dr. Beeching were a mistake many of them were necessary as had they not taken place we would be talking about entire lines being used by less that 1000 passengers per year rather than the odd parliamentary station.

Given that nearly all the lightly used lines as well as many well used lines were closed under Dr. Beeching I don't think there is any risk we will ever see a large scale line closure ever again in this country.

You have got to remember as well under British Rail particularly in the 1980s rail strikes were very very common many of which closed down entire lines and occasionally the entire rail network.

Benching didn't close any lines down. The government of the day did his dirty work. And there was plenty of that. Many lines were closed for political reasons. The car making unions had a major influence in line closures as they wanted car production increased thus ensuring plenty of work( and strikes ) for their members.
Lines were deliberately run down, trains were omitted from public timetables, unnecessary expenditure on lines etc were all common tactics in helping to create the conditions for justifying line closures.
There aren't that many lines left now to close in the UK after we have decimated our rail network. Large areas of the country are now without any public transport whatsoever
Bus deregulation put paid to scores of rural bus services leaving the UK with a second rate ( at best) transport network.
Integrated transport policies are a thing of the past as new generations of people have grown up never having experience public transport. Why? Because a a country we have destroyed and fragmented our transport network.
The south east has come out of this relatively unscathed but in the majority of rural areas public transport is a thing of the past and never to return.

 

[tony6499]

I always thought that was a busy commuter route , I wonder what the alternatives are ?

 

[PHILIPE]

Benching didn't close any lines down. The government of the day did his dirty work. And there was plenty of that. Many lines were closed for political reasons. The car making unions had a major influence in line closures as they wanted car production increased thus ensuring plenty of work( and strikes ) for their members.
Lines were deliberately run down, trains were omitted from public timetables, unnecessary expenditure on lines etc were all common tactics in helping to create the conditions for justifying line closures.
There aren't that many lines left now to close in the UK after we have decimated our rail network. Large areas of the country are now without any public transport whatsoever
Bus deregulation put paid to scores of rural bus services leaving the UK with a second rate ( at best) transport network.
Integrated transport policies are a thing of the past as new generations of people have grown up never having experience public transport. Why? Because a a country we have destroyed and fragmented our transport network.
The south east has come out of this relatively unscathed but in the majority of rural areas public transport is a thing of the past and never to return.

And a Transport Minister, Ernest Marples, who had vested interests in the Road Construction Industry.

 

[Abpj17]

The line appears never to be closer than 3.5 miles to the Sussex border. The entire Surrey/Kent border is remarkably straight, by British norms: between the borders with Greater London and East Sussex it never strays more than 1km (in either direction) from the TQ430 grid line. I would be intrigued to know to what your words "the boundaries are very oddly composed in the area" relates.

Straight lines are often oddly composed borders (and artificial constructs). Borders usually follow natural features like valleys/hills, rivers etc.

I assume there is no direct, alternative public transport routes because there basically aren't any significant roads - the road routes are via Sevenoaks. It's common across the South East that the major routes are the radial ones out of London, and they then have poor East-West links between them. On a map it's interesting quite how straight the Redhill - Tonbridge - Ashford line is.

 

[Elecman]

Although the line remains open, you could also add the withdrawal of stopping trains between Stoke and Stafford in 2004 and the subsequent closure of Wedgwood and Barlaston stations.

I would guess that technically the service was never withdrawn just replaced by what was supposedly a temporary rail replacement bus service which turned out to be permanent.

Barlaston and Wedgewood stations are Not closed unlike Etruria

 

[Trog]

And a Transport Minister, Ernest Marples, who had vested interests in the Road Construction Industry.

No he didn't. I believe he transferred the shares to his wife, so he would not be tempted to act un-ethically.

 

[XC90]

No he didn't. I believe he transferred the shares to his wife, so he would not be tempted to act un-ethically.

Of course, because when your wife has the shares, all interest disappears!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can somebody explain just how likely it was that someone would build new roads to serve most of the virtually passenger-less villages that were the focus of many of the Re-shaping proposals (and thus just possibly benefit Marples' firm)?

 

[reb0118]

TBF many conductors using Avantix will know a decently long list of such abbreviations covering stations on their route card though there is no formal requirement to do so. In my own case that was something like 70 locations and I knew plenty more beyond my patch. I was certainly no exception. As for why, the limitations of the relatively small screen on an Avantix means that knowing the codes saves a lot of time scrolling through lists that come up when you start typing in the full name. And on busy services time is money (commission).

Seconded.

 

[Deerfold]

TBF many conductors using Avantix will know a decently long list of such abbreviations covering stations on their route card though there is no formal requirement to do so. In my own case that was something like 70 locations and I knew plenty more beyond my patch. I was certainly no exception. As for why, the limitations of the relatively small screen on an Avantix means that knowing the codes saves a lot of time scrolling through lists that come up when you start typing in the full name. And on busy services time is money (commission).

That's certainly to be lauded - but 70 of the 2500 means you'd know less than 3% of them that might crop up on this forum unless you only look at subjects discussing items local to you - even if you know 10x that many you've still a 2 in 3 chance of not knowing one.

 

[Par]

The "Oldham Loop" closed in October 2009, admittedly for conversion (of most of the route) to Metrolink, but a heavy rail closure nonetheless.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The route is going to be closed by Southern due to their terrible management of their network. When it will reopen is unknown.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36701300
There are no public transport alternatives between the two towns, so it will be disastrous for all those that use it. It will also make the Southeastern trains from Tonbridge to London busier.

There are public transport alternatives, just not direct ones. The route is not closed, it temporarily has no service, and is expected to last a month, by which time GTR expect to be running DOO services throughout most of their network.

 

[MikeWh]

The route is not closed, it temporarily has no service

So trains running as a shuttle between Reigate and Tonbridge are mere figments of the imagination?

The route is not closed, indeed it still has trains running on it. They just don't go to London (or indeed anywhere north or Redhill).

 

[theageofthetra]

What about Birkbeck ( a London zone 4 station) which has completely lost its train service? How long can a train operator 'temporarily' close a route before they start getting legal challenges? The Folkestone sea wall closure is clearly a frustrating but understandable engineering issue- the loss of an entire route in South London isn't going down well politically.

 

[MikeWh]

What about Birkbeck ( a London zone 4 station) which has completely lost its train service? How long can a train operator 'temporarily' close a route before they start getting legal challenges? The Folkestone sea wall closure is clearly a frustrating but understandable engineering issue- the loss of an entire route in South London isn't going down well politically.

It will still get trains on Saturday, and far more than a parly service would provide. It is also served by tramlink giving connections to Beckenham Junction and East Croydon so the lack of trains on weekdays isn't as bad as it might be.

In fact, in view of the tram service Birkbeck is one of the least used stations in London.