WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Energy]

Does anyone have a source for the fact that end-doors on FLIRTs are not possible? Surely it's just a case of nobody as specced them yet because GA and Wales didn't need them? T

There's little point when there's little expectation for multiple working - for example, the 12 car 745s are never going to be in multiple because you couldn't accommodate a 24 car train on the network, and in many cases the 755s are more than doubling capacity as singles anyway.

I believe there is no FLIRT in existence with end doors, could always be an option but looking at their cab it may be a little hard.

 

[Pumbaa]

It’s not the cab that would be the issue - it would remove one of the unique selling points of the FLIRT platform, the ability to have level access boarding.

 

[Energy]

It’s not the cab that would be the issue - it would remove one of the unique selling points of the FLIRT platform, the ability to have level access boarding.

How would end gangways require the removal of level boarding?

 

[Pumbaa]

Ah apologies misread that. End gangways are definitely possible for the UK platform and has been offered during franchise competitions previously. Just never come to pass.

 

[Clansman]

Flirts have low floors to match platform heights, which means the boggies protrude into the passenger saloon - hence them being the only UK rolling stock fleet with different seating levels. Having end doors in this regard wouldn't be possible as youd hit the boggies, unless, as said, you remove the low floor profile at the expense of the level access to existing platforms.

 

[Energy]

Flirts have low floors to match platform heights, which means the boggies protrude into the passenger saloon - hence them being the only UK rolling stock fleet with different seating levels. Having end doors in this regard wouldn't be possible as youd hit the boggies, unless, as said, you remove the low floor profile at the expense of the level access to existing platforms.

Seems people are a little confused by end doors I meant end gangways not the style of doors on intercity stock.

Ah apologies misread that. End gangways are definitely possible for the UK platform and has been offered during franchise competitions previously. Just never come to pass.

Interesting, is it mentioned anywhere publicly accessible?

 

[Pumbaa]

Seems people are a little confused by end doors I meant end gangways not the style of doors on intercity stock.

Interesting, is it mentioned anywhere publicly accessible?

Probably not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone have a source for the fact that end-doors on FLIRTs are not possible? Surely it's just a case of nobody as specced them yet because GA and Wales didn't need them?

There aren't any FLIRTs with end doors, the reason being that the whole point of the FLIRT (spectacularly missed by PKP, to be fair) is that it's low-floor, and for that to be useful you need the doors between the bogies.

What GA have ordered, with a single large set of doors in or near the middle, is basically the equivalent. Remember it's all "walk through", it's more like one big long snake than a set of coaches.

Or the PKP layout:

PKP FLIRT

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems people are a little confused by end doors I meant end gangways not the style of doors on intercity stock.

Ohhh...I suspect it's just that nobody's ordered it yet. Mainland Europe by and large doesn't do gangways on MUs, and GA have ordered units with the intention that they mostly won't be paired up so you might as well have the benefits of the wider cab.

That said, I don't know if the long overhang from the bogies would be an issue in causing too much movement between vehicles?

 

[py_megapixel]

Ohhh...I suspect it's just that nobody's ordered it yet. Mainland Europe by and large doesn't do gangways on MUs,

Yes. Do end gangways actually improve passenger flow that much? By and large end gangwayed units these days have doors between units which, from the passenger saloon, look like somewhere you aren't meant to go. I doubt many people would go through there, and you presumably might as well have the benefits of a more spacious cab for the driver even if the units are mostly in multiple?

I know that, for example, the Berlin S-bahn runs seemingly the majority of trains in multiple, with no gangways, despite it being a high-density commuter service. So is there actually a major benefit to having end gangways?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. Do end gangways actually improve passenger flow that much?

Not really. Access to and by staff is their main purpose really, as well as very short platforms.

People on the WCML know you can go through and often do, that said.

 

[Clansman]

Out of curiosity, is the articulated and low floor design of the floor able to accomodate coaches longer than the ~20m Stadler construct them as - or rather, articulated stock in general? In which case, you'd be able to have a low floor and end doors, albeit not over the boggies.

/off topic

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of curiosity, is the articulated and low floor design of the floor able to accomodate coaches longer than the ~20m Stadler construct them as - or rather, articulated stock in general? In which case, you'd be able to have a low floor and end doors, albeit not over the boggies.

I'd start a new thread but this post should end it

Articulation requires the bogies to be at the ends (think about it). Therefore, end doors in their traditional sense are not possible.

Stadler can build any length you like (within reason) but the overhang in the middle will clout platforms after a certain point.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

You don't happen to have a link to this layout please as I can't seem to find it

No problem, here it is ...

https://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=298

Where the dots are in the picture there's an arrow - keep clicking on the arrow to see interior shots.

 

[ThomasI]

No problem, here it is ...

https://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=298

Where the dots are in the picture there's an arrow - keep clicking on the arrow to see interior shots.

Thank you; apologies if I'm being dim - where's the seating plan on there please?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Thank you; apologies if I'm being dim - where's the seating plan on there please?

Not being dim at all don't worry . There's no online seating layout but you can see about seven different shots - at the bottom right corner of the 196, there's dots and arrows which give you access to the inside of the new train basically.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[centraltrains]

Is this of any use?

First brand new CAF train delivered to West Midlands Trains

First of 26 brand new diesel trains for West Midlands arrives at Tyseley

www.railmagazine.com

he first complete CAF Class 196 has arrived in the UK for testing and commissioning at Tyseley.

Four-car diesel multiple unit 196101 was built by CAF in its Beasain factory in northern Spain. It had been tested at the Velim test track in the Czech Republic before being moved to the UK.

The Class 196s were ordered by West Midlands Trains to boost capacity on various routes. Twelve two-car (196001-196012) and 14 four-car (196101-196114) sets are on order, with 20 of the 80 vehicles to be built in Spain and the rest assembled at CAF’s Newport factory (RAIL 900). They are from the same CIVITY platform as the Northern Class 195s and Transport for Wales Class 197 DMUs.

A second four-car Class 196 (196102) has also been tested at Velim, while the first two-car set (196001) is complete at Beasain. A third four-car set (196103) has been built in Spain, while 196104 is due to be the first to leave Newport.

• For the FULL story, read RAIL 905, published on May 20, and available digitally now.
• For an in-depth EXCLUSIVE 16-page special on CAF's business in the UK, read RAIL 900, available digitally.

(Googled after seeing it on the front cover of a marketing email for Modern Railways)

 

[TH172341]

Noticed whilst driving past Tyseley depot (whilst on a couple of essential journeys!) that 196101 seems to have a yellow end gangway door on it as opposed to black. Impressed that there is a mock carriage for training use too.

 

[atsf_fT]

Well the 196 has been at Tysley for 2 months know and still no sign of it going out on test ?
I remember the testing of 172s in the early days
I saw them all out testing ' hope to see these beatys testing too 'might be some time though!

w

 

[py_megapixel]

I wonder if covid is making testing impractial?
I've heard some TOCs are suspending driver training too.

 

[DGH 1]

I wonder if covid is making testing impractial?
I've heard some TOCs are suspending driver training too.

I like the look of these, i love the livery too, makes a change from the obsession with white thats prevalent at the moment.

 

[Spirit555]

I did hear a rumour that it did break cover and did a test run to Shrewsbury last month. However I have not seen anything to back that up. Could be duff gen.

Mark

 

[rebmcr]

I wonder if covid is making testing impractial?
I've heard some TOCs are suspending driver training too.

There's a ban on 2+ people in a cab, so no TOC is able to do training that involves it. While there are other aspects that can be covered, there's not much point if they would lapse before the rest can be completed.

 

[atsf_fT]

I guess covid may have some part in the non testing ' but WM metro have been training drivers on there route daily for over a month so no problem with drivers and instructors in the cab so not problem working rules wise.
And while takeing these photos of the 196 a got talking to 2 workers at the depot who said the 196 arrived two months ago !
And no testing has started has there seems too be a bit of a differnce of opinion between CAF and WMT about how testing should be done.
Odd it's been here for 2 months and it's not made a few runs out Stratford or whitlocks end like the 172s did.

 

[WYSH]

Still think these look so much better than what Northern went with!

 

[the sniper]

I guess covid may have some part in the non testing ' but WM metro have been training drivers on there route daily for over a month so no problem with drivers and instructors in the cab so not problem working rules wise.

Are you sure? All their Trainees are still off, at least. Any training being done would only be that deemed essential.

 

[FLIRTfan18]

Well the 196 has been at Tysley for 2 months know and still no sign of it going out on test ?
I remember the testing of 172s in the early days
I saw them all out testing ' hope to see these beatys testing too 'might be some time though!

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I'm not sure whether this has already been brought up (apologies if it has) but that strikes me as a quite different purple to the one found on the 172s. This seems to have more burgundy/maroon to it, and as a result it clashes with the orange more and isn't as pleasing on the eye.

 

[the sniper]

I'm not sure whether this has already been brought up (apologies if it has) but that strikes me as a quite different purple to the one found on the 172s. This seems to have more burgundy/maroon to it, and as a result it clashes with the orange more and isn't as pleasing on the eye.

The orange is different too... Well, 172s are gold rather than orange.

 

[fgwrich]

Agree that the orange taking over from the gold is a little odd, but the Purple looks pretty similar to me. It may be a case that the 172s may be vinyl, while the 196s are painted?

172215 Class 172/2

With the city centre skyline as a backdrop, Class 172/2 No. 172215 departs Birmingham Moor Street with a West Midlands Railway service from Stourbridge Junction to Stratford-upon-Avon.

www.flickr.com

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Just seen this on Twitter:



(@WMTrainspotting on Twitter).