WMT Class 323 to Liverpool

[paddyb6]

On the 2nd December this year, a WMT Tango 323 was spotted at Lime Street. How often will this happen? I'd love to see some tango at Lime St!

Only happens rarely I presume, but is there any way of finding out when these workings are with 323s?
Thanks

 

[causton]

It was unplanned due to a fatality and could not be predicted until the snap decision is made by Control on the day. For example it depends on what depot the driver and guard are from as to whether they even sign 323s!

 

[paddyb6]

It was unplanned due to a fatality and could not be predicted until the snap decision is made by Control on the day. For example it depends on what depot the driver and guard are from as to whether they even sign 323s!

Thanks for information

 

[sd0733]

There are only a couple of trains per day which it can happen on too, Crewe don't sign them so there is a limit to how many out and back workings aren't touched by Crewe drivers or guards at some point on a return working.

 

[paddyb6]

There are only a couple of trains per day which it can happen on too, Crewe don't sign them so there is a limit to how many out and back workings aren't touched by Crewe drivers or guards at some point on a return working.

Which trains can it be?

 

[sufian123]

Which trains can it be?

None. Birmingham drivers needed for Liverpool. Crewe drivers don’t sign them. Odd ecs movement happens perhaps using route knowledge person.

 

[Qwerty133]

None. Birmingham drivers needed for Liverpool. Crewe drivers don’t sign them. Odd ecs movement happens perhaps using route knowledge person.

I think the fact that it categorically happened on a service makes this statement provably untrue.

 

[sd0733]

The only ones which Crewe don't touch either way are:
0601/0636/0701/1101/1136/1636/1936 ex Birmingham M-F.

The one a couple of weeks back was the 1st one since 323210 had a trip up in May 2013 when it covered for a 350 which hit a flock of pigeons and smashed the windscreen.

 

[Jonny]

I would be very surprised if WMT didn't ^borrow^ a Northern crew with suitable traction/route knowledge for the 323.

 

[6Gman]

I would be very surprised if WMT didn't ^borrow^ a Northern crew with suitable traction/route knowledge for the 323.

Would Northern traincrew sign Crewe to South Parkway via Weaver Junction?

 

[LowLevel]

I would be very surprised if WMT didn't ^borrow^ a Northern crew with suitable traction/route knowledge for the 323.

They can't crew their own trains let alone mess about covering other companies at no notice.

Can we stop the daft random theories - there are West Midlands Railway crews that sign Liverpool and 323s and the holes in the Swiss cheese can align to allow it to happen in extremis.

No hire ins, no route conductors etc. A 170 has also been up not that long ago.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would be very surprised if WMT didn't ^borrow^ a Northern crew with suitable traction/route knowledge for the 323.

Northern don’t sign Crewe-Liverpool via Weaver. Northern don’t have a Crewe depot & therefore no one to ‘borrow’ there either.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Several years ago, a 323 came in from Birmingham & got swapped at Crewe with a 350 off the London service. The 323 then went on the London service! That was possible because that London train was a Northampton crew with 323 knowledge.
But Crewe crew only sign 350’s and few Birmingham-Liverpool aren’t covered by Crewe and even less London trains

 

[PHILIPE]

Northern don’t sign Crewe-Liverpool via Weaver. Northern don’t have a Crewe depot & therefore no one to ‘borrow’ there either.

Don't Liverpool now sign between Lime St and Crewe ?

 

[Starmill]

They can't crew their own trains let alone mess about covering other companies at no notice.

Can we stop the daft random theories - there are West Midlands Railway crews that sign Liverpool and 323s and the holes in the Swiss cheese can align to allow it to happen in extremis.

No hire ins, no route conductors etc. A 170 has also been up not that long ago.

Exactly. It's somewhat similar to the very occasional visit by a CrossCountry Class 170 or HST set to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[6Gman]

Don't Liverpool now sign between Lime St and Crewe ?

Why would they? (If you mean Northern traincrew)

[via Weaver Jn]

 

[Starmill]

Why would they? (If you mean Northern traincrew)

[via Weaver Jn]

The route has been used for driver training in the past so there is a possibility. I do not know if they ever have planned transfer stock that way but again I think it is a possibility? Either way it seems irrelevant - the guards presumably don't and there's no reason WMT would specifically need to ask them to (or clarity they'd have any available if they were asked).

Nor does who signs what particularly matter because they would probably be route conducted anyway. So the whole question seems moot.

 

[PHILIPE]

The route has been used for driver training in the past so there is a possibility. I do not know if they ever have planned transfer stock that way but again I think it is a possibility? Either way it seems irrelevant - the guards presumably don't and there's no reason WMT would specifically need to ask them to (or clarity they'd have any available if they were asked).

Nor does who signs what particularly matter because they would probably be route conducted anyway. So the whole question seems moot.

There are some ECS workings to/from Allerton to/from Manchester side which run via Crewe (reversing). Presumably 319s.

 

[sd0733]

Several years ago, a 323 came in from Birmingham & got swapped at Crewe with a 350 off the London service. The 323 then went on the London service! That was possible because that London train was a Northampton crew with 323 knowledge.
But Crewe crew only sign 350’s and few Birmingham-Liverpool aren’t covered by Crewe and even less London trains

I think this must be a bit of a Chinese whisper gone awry. Northampton Crews on either grade don't sign 323s. There wouldn't be anyone who signs the Trent or even via Stoke that sign 323s to begin with and what would happen when it got to London!?

 

[Nymanic]

At the risk of digressing, here's my own snap from that day. It certainly caught me off-guard...

 

[HLE]

I think this must be a bit of a Chinese whisper gone awry. Northampton Crews on either grade don't sign 323s. There wouldn't be anyone who signs the Trent or even via Stoke that sign 323s to begin with and what would happen when it got to London!?

I thought that. Northampton is just 350's to my knowledge. Cov sign 323's but don't go further south than Northampton

 

[Deafdoggie]

I thought that. Northampton is just 350's to my knowledge. Cov sign 323's but don't go further south than Northampton

I certainly caught it from Crewe to Alsager. Possibly not a 323 (it was several years ago) but certainly not a 350. It may have been swapped again somewhere else. Or terminated short. There was definitely no first class. It was definitely in LM green.

 

[sd0733]

I thought that. Northampton is just 350's to my knowledge. Cov sign 323's but don't go further south than Northampton

Yes Northampton is 350 only. Yes cov are 350s but don't come to Crewe by any route.

 

[DarloRich]

They can't crew their own trains let alone mess about covering other companies at no notice.

Can we stop the daft random theories - there are West Midlands Railway crews that sign Liverpool and 323s and the holes in the Swiss cheese can align to allow it to happen in extremis.

No hire ins, no route conductors etc. A 170 has also been up not that long ago.

Correct but that would take away the fun of these boards

 

[childwallblues]

Certainly 323s were very common in Lime Street many years ago in Central Trains days. There used to be a working which started at Four Oaks to Lime Street and went back to New Street at 1708. This was worked by 323s on a regular basis.

 

[JonathanH]

Certainly 323s were very common in Lime Street many years ago in Central Trains days. There used to be a working which started at Four Oaks to Lime Street and went back to New Street at 1708. This was worked by 323s on a regular basis.

Were 323s not the booked traction for a fair number of Liverpool to Birmingham services in the late 1990s prior to the linking of this service with the Birmingham to Stansted route in the early 2000s which obviously required diesel units?

 

[Statto]

Certainly 323s were very common in Lime Street many years ago in Central Trains days. There used to be a working which started at Four Oaks to Lime Street and went back to New Street at 1708. This was worked by 323s on a regular basis.

I remember the evening peak working from Four Oaks which i caught all the way now & again, think that only stopped at Sutton Coldfield, & Aston before New Street.

 

[tom1649]

Were 323s not the booked traction for a fair number of Liverpool to Birmingham services in the late 1990s prior to the linking of this service with the Birmingham to Stansted route in the early 2000s which obviously required diesel units?

I think you're right. They interworked with the 310s for a while didn't they?