Woking, junction with Portsmouth Direct

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30909

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Should this be in infrastructure?
Some years ago SWT recast their timetables and added as little as 6 minutes (IIRC) to the fastest schedule PMH to WAT via GLD. This improved their “time keeping” against the PTT and we regular users were told would greatly improve the time lost to conflicting movements at Woking. I cannot remember the last time, both peak and off peak, when on up services we have not been held at the junction or on approach to the platform. Is this because there is so much slack in the WTT from PMH to WOK that all services arrive early or is something to do with route setting at the signalling centre?
 
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Matt Taylor

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The main reason is that the up Pompey fasts are preceded through Woking by up Weymouths and that is why you normally wait outside Woking. I don't know why it was timetabled like that but there is a similar issue in the down direction at Havant particularly with the XX30 fasts from Waterloo which wait for up to 6 minutes outside Havant Jnc while the Victoria to Portsmouth Southern service is in the platform.
 

30909

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Thanks and I can see this as a reason but there is on average a 5 minute headway between the Weymouth and Pompy fasts at Woking Junction so still seems to be odd that they are held so often.
 

wintonian

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Thanks and I can see this as a reason but there is on average a 5 minute headway between the Weymouth and Pompy fasts at Woking Junction so still seems to be odd that they are held so often.

As someone who reasonably often comes into London on a 444 I have notice we quite often seem to be on a go slow between Passing Brookwood and through Woking Junction after I'm assuming a late runnning Exeter service, so I expect we are often a couple of minutes behind there, with you being held behind us.
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Thanks and I can see this as a reason but there is on average a 5 minute headway between the Weymouth and Pompy fasts at Woking Junction so still seems to be odd that they are held so often.

and only 4 minutes btween the Exeter and Weymouth trains.
 

455/8

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I had a conversation with a signaller that works/worked in Havant box about the reason why SWT services are held at/made to wait at Havant jct and the reason he said is because Southern and First pay more for pathings in that area so they get priority, so if a SWT service is running to time or early as is sometimes the case and a southern train is running late the Southern train will get priority over the SWT service.
 

Bald Rick

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I had a conversation with a signaller that works/worked in Havant box about the reason why SWT services are held at/made to wait at Havant jct and the reason he said is because Southern and First pay more for pathings in that area so they get priority, so if a SWT service is running to time or early as is sometimes the case and a southern train is running late the Southern train will get priority over the SWT service.

I'm afraid the signaller is talking out of his elbow.
 

D1009

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If a train is runing early, it will not normally be given priority over one running punctually, or even one or two minutes late.
 

30909

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Agree that early at junctions and terminus is operationally as difficult as late however if the timetable and the operators cannot make a 4 – 5 minute headway work, with significant recovery time already factored into the WTT, being held regulary has to be caused by something else.
If 455/8 is correct then the signaller he spoke to sounds like a reincarnation of the South Eastern ones at Reigate Junction (Redhill) who’s negative influence prioritising their own trains in the late 1800s were a significant deciding factor in LBSCR building the Quarry Line (here endeth the history lesson)
 

D1009

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Agree that early at junctions and terminus is operationally as difficult as late however if the timetable and the operators cannot make a 4 – 5 minute headway work, with significant recovery time already factored into the WTT, being held regulary has to be caused by something else.

The minimum headway on the SW main line is 2 minutes, though this increases if you get stopping trains following one another. Another factor at Woking is that trains arriving from the Guildford direction have to fit in between trains going towards Brookwood.
 
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I have to ask as its kind off related.

I have driven over this route a few times. When you leave Woking towards Guildford, there is a Temporary Speed Restriction of 20mph over the junction. Any idea what its for? Its been there for ages??
 

TEW

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Been mentioned in the SWT webchats a couple of times, some track defect. Network Rail are meant to be finally fixing it in the Autumn I believe.
 
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