Woman asked to give up seat on train for child.

[gazzaa2]

This weak woman should have stayed sitting and told the mother where to go, why can't people stand up(no pun intended) for themselves these days?

People are weary of confrontation these days as you can be stabbed to death over nothing, even on public transport. London can be a dangerous place.

 

[Bantamzen]

If there's no good reason for the child to sit down then why should someone else have to give up their seat ?. What happened to holding the mother's hand ?
What a crazy world we're becoming.

At the risk of being cynical, well even more cynical its down to that word "No". Or more precisely the lack of it's use during children's upbringing. Too many younger people, at least in my experience, do not seem to understand that they are not entitled to everything they demand, and that the world does not revolve around them.

One example I had recently was slightly surreal. On a morning service in from Guiseley into Leeds, I as many others were getting up to detrain as our service pulled into the station. Less than 30 seconds from stopping, a young chap behind me asked if I would mind moving because he wanted to go to the toilet. Being on a Northern 322, in the front carriage that did not have the accessible toilet I tried to be helpful and tell him the was no toilet in this front carriage. He carried on by saying he wanted to get to the toilet he could see at the front, to which I replied that was the driver's cab. A second young person intervened, now literally seconds from us disembarking, telling me I should let him go to the toilet & I was being "that guy". I helpfully repeated that there was no loo in the carriage, and that the young gentleman was seconds away from getting off the train & being just a few metres from the facilities on P8 or through the barriers on the concourse. He concluded that I was indeed "That guy" and that was fine.

Seriously nonplussed I left it at that, glancing only briefly over my shoulder to see what seemed to be the said chap heading towards the stairs leading to the bridge & the higher numbered platforms....

 

[Bletchleyite]

My simple answer would be "Sorry, but no".

Probably mine too, though it sounds like she was rude and therefore that would tend the answer that way anyway. A polite request with an explanation - "Sorry, do you mind if my child sits down, please? We've been on our feet all day and we are both shattered", with gracious acceptance of "Sorry, I'm afraid I've been on my feet since 6am too, perhaps he could sit on your knee?", might result in me giving up the seat depending upon how tired I was. Though I mostly stand rather than sit on the Tube anyway even if there are seats available, so if I'm sitting I'm probably knackered myself.

As ever, if you ask me politely and without entitlement[1] then I respond favourably in most cases unless there's a good reason not to. If you are rude you get nowt.

[1] Beyond what you are entitled to, of course. I normally sit in priority seats for the legroom, typically on the window side which has meant the number of times I have been turfed out is miniscule. But even so if you approach me rudely to sit there, I'll take my time gathering my belongings before moving. And similarly I won't move for a companion if they are impolite - they can stand. OTOH I have given up a paid-for exit row seat on a flight with no compensation and in significant discomfort for the flight because I was asked very nicely if a family could sit together and it solved a 3-way swap.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People are weary of confrontation these days as you can be stabbed to death over nothing, even on public transport. London can be a dangerous place.

It really, really isn't, even with the relatively high rate of stabbings at present. Most of the stabbings are "self-contained" among gangs, pseudo-gangs and groups of youth known to one another. You will categorically not get stabbed for refusing to give up your Tube seat. Has that ever even happened?

There is a knife crime issue in London (at least it's not a gun crime issue - you at least have a chance of running from a knife), but it's hardly Pretoria.

 

[Bantamzen]

Probably mine too, though it sounds like she was rude and therefore that would tend the answer that way anyway. A polite request with an explanation - "Sorry, do you mind if my child sits down, please? We've been on our feet all day and we are both shattered", with gracious acceptance of "Sorry, I'm afraid I've been on my feet since 6am too, perhaps he could sit on your knee?", might result in me giving up the seat depending upon how tired I was. Though I mostly stand rather than sit on the Tube anyway even if there are seats available, so if I'm sitting I'm probably knackered myself.

I too might be more amenable if a polite request & an reason offered, but in what appears to be the scenario I certainly wouldn't be quite so if shouted at just because mummy wanted me to make myself scarce for little Timmy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I too might be more amenable if a polite request & an reason offered, but in what appears to be the scenario I certainly wouldn't be quite so if shouted at just because mummy wanted me to make myself scarce for little Timmy.

If shouted at, i.e. abused, I would not move even if they were entitled and would give them the inconvenience of going and getting a member of staff to resolve the situation (but would of course move immediately on the member of staff turning up as I have no beef with them - though I probably would have had a word with the member of staff afterwards about them being abusive).

 

[Robertj21a]

In London you can be stabbed to death over nothing, even on public transport. It's a dangerous place.

That's much the same in many big cities. Londoners know what is/isn't likely to be a safe situation and far too many people overplay the scaremongering.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I would simply ask the parent "has your child paid for their ticket?" and if, as expected, they said no, I'd tell them that fare-paying passengers take priority over people travelling for free and stay in the seat.

 

[DarloRich]

A complete non story. It was nice of the lady mentioned to give up her seat but there was no expectation that she should.

 

[Scousemouse]

When a child pays full price for a ticket (or any price at all) then they have the same right to a seat as an adult. I know pensioners don't pay the same but they've earned the discount and respect over the years. Children haven not earned any respect yet.

 

[SteveP29]

My mother always used to say to me that children should not occupy seats when adults were standing. Was she right?

Yes, she was.

Personally, when I was a child, if we were sat in two seats on the bus and it filled up, I was always hauled out of my seat and onto my mother's knee, if that was good enough for me, it's good enough for every other kid.

 

[AndrewP]

I have kids and always worked on the principle of if it was a reserved seat or a paid for long journey they would not move. This did cause some issues on the GNER free firsts where you could buy really cheap kids tickets so we did even before they actually needed tickets just so we had space.

On tubes and buses we often stood but let them sit so they were protected by us but never took more than the seats we would have as parents.

As for being asked to move for a kid. If there was a good reason and I was asked nicely then there would be no problem but without any reason or if someone is rude then no chance.

A counterpoint to this is that my fare paying teenage son has been asked to move simply preferred the non priority seat he had to other empty ones - he said no which I think was right

 

[kristiang85]

I would always give up my tube seat to someone carrying a baby or very young toddler, but never to a child that can clearly stand or be held by the parent - half the time when they sit they want to get up and move anyway.

I saw an extraordinary situation on the central line a couple of years back when a mother got on with two 7-9yr-ish old children and proclaimed very loudly "Now watch, nobody on here will offer you a seat!". It was a self fulfilling prophecy as every person in that carriage put their newspapers up and ignored her. She then kept saying loudly to her children "Look at all these people, hiding behind their papers, not giving you a seat!".

A few stops later someone did get off, and she said to her children "Quick! Get it!" and in running over to grab the seat, one of them almost tripped the block up. He then lent down to the child and said "You know if your mummy asked nicely, someone would probably have given you a seat much earlier".

The mother started mouthing off at him, but at least a couple of people clapped as he awkwardly bolted from the train.

I dread to think what those children are going to grow up to be.

 

[matchmaker]

From the age of 12 I travelled by train to and from school. I don't remember a single journey where I got a seat!

 

[mchunt]

10 year old should be strong enough to stand unless they have a disability.

When travelling with my 6 year old we usually get offered a seat in London apart from when train is crush loaded, not been offered one outside of London and when he was younger have had to hold him and balance for extended periods (30mins +) - try to travel off peak but sometimes hospital appointments were not at good times.

 

[adamello]

Children haven not earned any respect yet.

do you not treat everyone with respect, unless they lose that...? wow.

 

[sleeper fan]

In my opinion unless the child has a type of disability doesn't have to be visible then they should be made to stand. People need to respect their elders not shove them to one side. A child is far more capable of standing in a warm tube train than the lady in question. Utterly disrespectful for the mother to expect her child to have a seat of his own. What the problem with the mother having the child sitting on her lop or standing in front of her holding her hand? Oh wait she probably wanted to ignore her child to tap around on her phone and to do this was to get a poor lady who was already sitting down to stand up!Forgot the society we live in. Children screeming there heads off while parents look at their phone without a care in the world(Slight sweeping statement but its the truth for most young parents in their twenties other parents who are older put there children before there social life and would make a child stand its basic respect). Out of order seats are first come first service not oh I want my child to sit down now you get up. Sounds like an entitled parent to me...one that thinks her child is the most important and everyone else is a peasant.

 

[Scousemouse]

do you not treat everyone with respect, unless they lose that...? wow.

I don't think children deserve more respect than adults. I think children should defer to adults on the basis that you respect your elders.

Its how I was brought up and I think its sadly lacking these days when children's rights seem to be more important than adults.

If I spoke and behaved to my parents the way some children do today I'd have been lathered into next week. And rightly so.

 

[martinsh]

We did rationing in the 40s and 50s. Should we go back to that too?

Why not ? It would solve the obesity problem at a atroke !

Isn't that what Brexit is about?

No

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Children haven not earned any respect yet.

Disgusting attitude.

 

[maire23]

I was on LNER train once that was extremely busy. I had booked Passenger Assist and I had a reserved seat. I was assisted on and into my seat at Peterborough, and soon after leaving Peterborough a woman came along with a big family group and told me to move as my seat ‘was hers’ I politely said, no, it’s mine and I’m not moving. Turned out the seat next to me was hers.
She sat down and asked me to move because her daughter- who had a seat and a baby on her lap- needed two seats! I asked her where would I go as the train was full and standing.
She said ‘oh you can stand, my daughter can’t stand with the baby!’ She was seriously annoying me now so I asked her would she like to try standing when on crutches? I also showed her my very visible pink crutches to demonstrate this. This shut her up for a bit but she was still muttering about it-
So she then swapped seats with her daughter. The ‘baby’ was a toddler who proceeded to kick me continuously as the child was lying in the mother’s arms. Her other child was lying across two seats when adults were standing! I was trying to work on my Masters dissertation and when the train emptied at York I was so fed up I got up and moved because I was sick and tired of being distracted by this toddler- especially when the child kicked me I was making mistakes and as I was near my final edit this was not what I needed!
I actually gave up my seat so an unruly toddler could spread out a bit! I actually got a refund from LNER for that. I’m disabled and I don’t give my seat up for anyone!

 

[Scousemouse]

Disgusting attitude.

Why? Children should respect their elders.

 

[Darandio]

Why? Children should respect their elders.

Indeed they should. And elders should respect those younger than them as well.

It's a strange concept if you believe all children shouldn't be respected unless they have earned it from you. How do they go about that?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Children haven not earned any respect yet.

At the risk of going OT, children are human beings and deserve a lot of respect. Adults can learn a lot from children. I deal with a lot of children in my line of work. Every child matters

But, the actions of the mother in the opening post was inexcusable. If I was her child, I would be really embarrassed

 

[Scousemouse]

Indeed they should. And elders should respect those younger than them as well.

It's a strange concept if you believe all children shouldn't be respected unless they have earned it from you. How do they go about that?

Doing as they are told without argument when they are told. Not behaving badly. Shutting up when told.

Generally well behaved kids get respect. The majority today believe the world revolves around them and they are more important than adults. They are not.

 

[BJames]

Doing as they are told without argument when they are told. Not behaving badly. Shutting up when told.

Generally well behaved kids get respect. The majority today believe the world revolves around them and they are more important than adults. They are not.

As I said earlier, I would not give up my seat for a child. However, there is no indication in the article that it was actually the child that was expecting the seat. It may have been the mother's decision to try to get her child to sit down, the child may not have even wanted to.

 

[bramling]

Why? Children should respect their elders.

I was like that as a child. Then during teenage years it started to dawn that many adults were dumber than us as schoolchildren. A rather disappointing realisation to be honest.

An equally fallacious mentality exists at work, that those who have done XX years deserve respect. *Some* of that group may well do as a result of the way they’ve conducted themselves over time, however it’s not automatic just because of the number of years done. There’s plenty of 40 years people who are clueless, and generally a bad attitude on top of it. In fact, at times they’re worse than clueless, as they can often get in the way of those who do know what they’re doing and lead things down the garden path.

 

[urbophile]

My daughter, with a (hidden) disability, travelled to school on the District Line every day and had to sniff commuters' armpits regularly. I doubt if she ever had a seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was like that as a child. Then during teenage years it started to dawn that many adults were dumber than us as schoolchildren. A rather disappointing realisation to be honest.

I think you realise that at roughly the same point you realise that "stranger danger" is a load of oversimplified rubbish.

(Strangers don't really pose much of a physical threat to a 6 foot, 14 year old).

 

[whhistle]

I'm not against people being nice.
But I am against the expectation that anyone (not just men!) should give up their seat for anyone else.

We live in a world of trying to be equal.
If the boat is sinking, it shouldn't be women and children first any more.