Woman dragged along by TPE train

[transmanche]

Not seen this mentioned yet.

Officers from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) are to examine how a woman was dragged a short distance by a train in Newcastle.

The RAIB said doors on the train closed on the woman's right wrist, trapping it as she tried to board the 17:02 Transpennine Express train on 5 June. The train started to leave Newcastle Central Station before the emergency brakes were applied a short time later.

The RAIB said it will publish a report at the conclusion of its investigation. The research will examine the sequence of events leading up to the incident, including the dispatch of the train and how the presence of obstructions that are trapped in doors are detected.

Full article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-23381779

The RAIB adds:

These doors were closing as the passenger reached them, so she put her right hand between the door leaves expecting this to cause them to re-open. They did not; closing around her right wrist and trapping it. The train then started to move, forcing the passenger to walk and jog alongside.

As the train started to move, the conductor, who was leaning out of the rear cab window, could not see the trapped passenger due to the curvature of the platform. Passengers on board the train observed what had occurred and pulled the emergency door release which had the effect of applying the brakes. Another person standing on the platform shouted to the conductor to stop the train and the conductor applied the emergency brake.

Full article: http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/130605_Newcastle.cfm

 

[ModernRailways]

Had the email alert this morning. TPE seem to have taken quite a while to report this to the RAIB.

At all stations where there is a curve which makes it impossible for the guard to see the whole train there should be platform staff or on board staff ensuring the safe departure.

Good thing is that the woman came out fairly uninjured!

 

[transmanche]

TPE seem to have taken quite a while to report this to the RAIB.

Indeed, the BBC says it wasn't reported until 3 July. Taking four weeks to report it seems excessive (and a bit worrying).

Good thing is that the woman came out fairly uninjured!

Yes, could have been very nasty. Good to see that prompt action was taken and no lasting injury was caused to the passenger - and for that the staff should be praised.

 

[Tomnick]

Perhaps it'd be easier to make judgments on the competency of the traincrew involved once we're in possession of a few more facts. In particular, it's interesting to note the eagerness to lay the blame at the Guard's door, whilst (in one case) noting without further comment that TPE self-dispatch at Newcastle. Who made the decision to adopt this method, rather than the surely safer (and more expensive) method of being dispatched by platform staff?

 

[causton]

Is that... is that actually an accurate picture on the BBC news article showing the actual station for once? :P

(or is it York?)

 

[transmanche]

Is that... is that actually an accurate picture on the BBC news article showing the actual station for once? :P

(or is it York?)

Haha, yes it is Newcastle!

It's actually platform 2 in the picture. Platform 10 is out of shot on the left, but the platform face curves in the same way as the one in shot. The RAIB page has a picture of platform 10.

 

[AlexS]

No doubt another cost saving measure by adopting self dispatch. There's no benefit to self dispatch except as a cost saving. Great until someone gets hurt. There's no way you should be self dispatching at an 8 million passenger per year station, it's too busy to leave it down to the guard particularly at a curved platform.

 

[bb21]

Can I ask that members refrain from speculation until further facts come to light please. Placing blame without being in possession of full facts will just cause unnecessary arguments.

 

[transmanche]

Can I ask that members refrain from speculation until further facts come to light please. Placing blame without being in possession of full facts will just cause unnecessary arguments.

Well said. TBH, I only posted the article as I'm interested in what the recommendations will be from RAIB. I know self-dispatch is a bit of a contentious issue and I didn't intend on starting a blame game.

 

[bb21]

Well said. TBH, I only posted the article as I'm interested in what the recommendations will be from RAIB. I know self-dispatch is a bit of a contentious issue and I didn't intend on starting a blame game.

It wasn't aimed at you so no need to worry. People are perfectly entitled to discuss matters like these. Just a reminder to all that speculation is not helpful as there were some signs that this might happen.

 

[185]

Think TPE were so fixated on investigating the guards actions they forgot to notify the RAIB. Self dispatch should never have been passed off as safe at Central.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I think it is interesting that it says the passenger stuck her hand in the doors expecting them to re-open.

I dont know about other stock but on all the stock I use into London Bridge and Victoria the doors seem to close abruptly and with a clunk and give the impression they'll do serious damage to an errant arm thats in the way! Does other stock have slower closing doors?

 

[michael769]

Some yes. But I think the real issue is that people think that train doors work in the same way as lift doors,

 

[Monty]

Some yes. But I think the real issue is that people think that train doors work in the same way as lift doors,

The worrying thing is though on Desiro type stock the doors are meant to to reopen in the event on an obstruction. What I want to know is how the hell did the train get interlock with someone's hand stuck in the doors? Without speculating further this leads me be believe there may have been a fault with the either train's door or traction interlock.

Regardless of the cause, I do think however this does highlight the potential danger to passengers who interfere with closing train doors.

 

[DarloRich]

surely the Desiros have a sensitive edge on the door seal that should detect an obstruction and re open the door and prevent an interlock form being achieved?

EDIT - I see Monty beat me to it!

 

[edwin_m]

Certainly this is a concern if an arm can be trapped at the wrist and the door still obtain interlock.

 

[carriageline]

I know the reaction I am going to get here, I will say it anyway.

It was probably the most traumatic experience of her life, and whilst the train never should of started moving with her trapped, nor should her hand really of got trapped? That's the job of the RAIB to investigate.

But at the same time, it just proves the selfishness and stupidity of SOME members of the travelling public. I just don't understand why the need to do this.

She was trying to abuse a system, as she was too late to board a train (for whatever reason). I have been late for trains, arriving as the staff are dispatching, I haven't even ran for the doors, never mind stick my arm in them. Absolute selfish stupidity, which is all far too common these days.

It's all about "me me me", and not thinking of the delays and damage that it can cause.

Thankfully, she is unharmed, I bet she will never do it again. Nor anyone that saw it.

How was the train stopped?

 

[Wyvern]

surely the Desiros have a sensitive edge on the door seal that should detect an obstruction and re open the door and prevent an interlock form being achieved?

There is a limit to how well they work. Didnt the new tube stock have loads of trouble from it being too sensitive?

 

[MCR247]

All I'm going to say is ouch!! Out of any train in the UK, a desiro definitely wouldn't a train I'd like to get my wrist stuck in the doors!

 

[westv]

But at the same time, it just proves the selfishness and stupidity of SOME members of the travelling public. I just don't understand why the need to do this.

She was trying to abuse a system, as she was too late to board a train (for whatever reason). I have been late for trains, arriving as the staff are dispatching, I haven't even ran for the doors, never mind stick my arm in them. Absolute selfish stupidity, which is all far too common these days.

It's all about "me me me", and not thinking of the delays and damage that it can cause.

I think most of us have done things in a split second of misjudgement that we later regret.

 

[AndyPJG]

How was the train stopped?

Noted in the RAIB statement in post #1.

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't work on the railways, but am intelligent enough to understand that the Traincrew have sufficient duties to carry out without having to self dispatch their trains at Newcastle. I expect this incident was waiting to happen?

Please correct me, the train should have already disappeared from the station & platform displays once the guard has pressed the necessary button to dispatch the train?

If yes, no passengers should have been able to board this train.

 

[IanD]

Please correct me, the train should have already disappeared from the station & platform displays once the guard has pressed the necessary button to dispatch the train?

If yes, no passengers should have been able to board this train.

Except maybe those who had seen it earlier and were on their way to the platform but took longer than average for whatever reason (eg infirmity; went via the toilet; went to Pumpkin and the woman at Grantham was serving so your "15 mins, plenty of time for a coffee" turns in to a "dear me, that took ages, now my train is about to depart so I'd better leg it" etc...)

 

[Tomnick]

Assuming you mean the TRTS plunger, I didn't think that was generally tied into the departure boards. Often a train will only clear when it's recorded as departed, unless the system's set up to take it off one or two minutes prior to booked time.

 

[ModernRailways]

But at the same time, it just proves the selfishness and stupidity of SOME members of the travelling public. I just don't understand why the need to do this.

She was trying to abuse a system, as she was too late to board a train (for whatever reason). I have been late for trains, arriving as the staff are dispatching, I haven't even ran for the doors, never mind stick my arm in them. Absolute selfish stupidity, which is all far too common these days.

It's all about "me me me", and not thinking of the delays and damage that it can cause.

But if she was further up the train around the bend where the guard couldn't see her unless he stepped onto the platform to view the full train, then she may have got their and been walking along the outside of the train looking for a seat or going to her reserved seat, then when she heard the door tone, she ran to the nearest doors to ensure she boarded.

An example of where people run to the nearest doors is Southern at Victoria. The train is 1 minute until departure, the platform staff start blowing their whistles and everyone boards at the nearest door. Then the train departs, it may leave some people behind, but those people will be those right at the back who had to run, but didn't make it.

I'm surprised TPE haven't given their guards whistles. A whistle is after all essentially just a warning that the doors are closing and to board the train now. The hustle alarm then plays and the doors close but their is enough time for people to board.

 

[Anvil1984]

I don't work on the railways, but am intelligent enough to understand that the Traincrew have sufficient duties to carry out without having to self dispatch their trains at Newcastle. I expect this incident was waiting to happen?

Please correct me, the train should have already disappeared from the station & platform displays once the guard has pressed the necessary button to dispatch the train?

If yes, no passengers should have been able to board this train.

As someone who has to self despatch from Newcastle I can confirm the TRTS plunger is only to alert signaller we want to go, it has no bearing at all on the departure boards. This is the same at the vast majority of stations with TRTS plungers.

Platform 10 is an awful platform to self despatch from because of the curve, other risks like the off indicator being a minute thing around the bend (the only modern one being on the straight platform 1

 

[Whistler40145]

Sorry for my ignorance. At least I now know it is to inform the signaller that the train is ready for departure.

 

[RPM]

As someone who has to self despatch from Newcastle I can confirm the TRTS plunger is only to alert signaller we want to go, it has no bearing at all on the departure boards. This is the same at the vast majority of stations with TRTS plungers.

Platform 10 is an awful platform to self despatch from because of the curve, other risks like the off indicator being a minute thing around the bend (the only modern one being on the straight platform 1

If the dispatch arrangements at NCL are not up to scratch then hopefully this will be identified by RAIB and some good may come out of this incident in terms of improvements to dispatch equipment and procedures.

 

[Anvil1984]

If the dispatch arrangements at NCL are not up to scratch then hopefully this will be identified by RAIB and some good may come out of this incident in terms of improvements to dispatch equipment and procedures.

The OFF indicators are these types (as seen in this link at Halifax) and are located about 3 cars up the platform

http://www.infotec.co.uk/index.php?... (NTI)&cntnt01productid=21&cntnt01returnid=78

Not ideal for a mainline station, you have to walk a little distance to see it and you have the pillars in the way too. Platform 12 has the same curve but you get away with it there as the platform has less obstructions

 

[reb0118]

Question:-

As a guard I have always been taught that unless you can see all the doors close from the position that you are operating the doors from - do not depart from that position.

The railway being the railway there are always exceptions. It is acceptable to dispatch when you cannot see all doors due to e.g. a curving platform if you are assisted by platform staff (not applicable in this case) or after closing the doors (except of course the local door) walk as far down the platform as necessary to check that there are no obstructions prior to departing.

I assume that TPE guards can dispatch from any local door or are they like Northern in that they must use the rearmost door?

Therefore how did the guard not see this person trapped in the door?