Worst " Bus war"?

[Busaholic]

Lothian Buses and First Edinburgh in the early part of this century drew the attention of the Monopolies and Mergers people, and I seem to remember tales of dire things around Greenock and Gourock around the same time that had shades of the Ice Cream Wars, including threats and actual violence. The Scottish T.C. had to come down very hard.

 

[Dai Corner]

Nothing like the scale of those already mentioned, but there's still a war going on around Cwmbran in South Wales between Stagecoach and Phil Anslow Coaches.

Legal battles over the use of stands at the bus station, accusations on social media, a fleet of Gold standard buses for Town services....

Ironically the two firms must have been on good terms in the past as Stagecoach have twice bought out Anslow's bus operations.

 

[Busaholic]

Nothing like the scale of those already mentioned, but there's still a war going on around Cwmbran in South Wales between Stagecoach and Phil Anslow Coaches.

Legal battles over the use of stands at the bus station, accusations on social media, a fleet of Gold standard buses for Town services....

Ironically the two firms must have been on good terms in the past as Stagecoach have twice bought out Anslow's bus operations.

Perhaps Phil Anslow is hoping for third time lucky.

 

[Dai Corner]

Perhaps Phil Anslow is hoping for third time lucky.

Either that or Stagecoach aren't interested and have decided to try to bankrupt him instead? I don't know.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Reading through this thread, the one from Hull seemed rather tame in comparison!

Although a proper old-school bus war nowadays would be thoroughly entertaining to watch!

 

[WillPS]

Sheffield had two periods. The first five years of de-regulation had lots of "breadvans" and other second hand vehicles pressed into service on random routes by any old cowboy - similar to many large cities - but SYT (South Yorkshire Transport - later Mainline, now First) bought a number of them and things calmed down.

But nature abhors a vacuum, and competition came back (just as SYT were going through a court case for abusing their monopoly position). The "worst" era was around 1993/1994/1995 when Sheffield Omnibus competed on pretty much every route they could - it's ridiculous nowadays when you look back and remember that there was an Omnibus service every ten minutes competing with a Mainline service every ten/fifteen minutes on corridors that now only have one bus per hour in total (e.g. the 93/94 from the city centre to Meadowhall via Grimesthorpe, the 17/18 from the city centre to Fox Hill via Hillsborough, the 1/11/21/57/66/67 from the city centre to Stocksbridge via Hillsborough).

Omnibus even ran competing evening services on the 52 (where Yorkshire Terrier were the "daytime" competition to Mainline) - I know that some "newcomers" provide an all-day service when competing with an established operator but I'm not aware of any examples of a "newcomer" providing a commercial evening service in competition with an established operator when that "newcomer" don't even provide the daytime service.

Omnibus had the clever tactic of buying lots of redundant double deckers from Preston, which were coincidently in the traditional navy/cream colours of old Sheffield buses - they were pretty good at identifying gaps in the Mainline network (and sections of route where the incumbent operator went a bit round the houses rather than running direct, or where Mainline served the quieter side of the city centre around the Interchange so Omnibus could run up High Street and be a lot more convenient for passengers).

In those days, the *weekly* ticket price went down to two quid at one point (not single ticket, not daily ticket, I'm talking seven days of travel!), as the two operators fought tooth and nail (the Mainline ticket - I think it was called "red saver" - was only valid on the generally north-south corridor that Omnibus operated on - but still very generous if you lived on those sides of town). There were duplicates, there were unregistered services, there were often spare buses sat at places like Lane Top waiting for the "other" operator's bus to turn up so that they could ensure that they were first to the lucrative stops ahead (e.g. Firth Park, in that example).

Whilst there were other independent operators in Sheffield, nothing got as bad as the Omnibus/Mainline days (most of the post 1990 ones stuck to certain key corridors - e.g. the two main east-west Stagecoach routes - the 52 and 120 - have been operated by their predecessors for thirty years now). Eventually, Omnibus was bought by Yorkshire Traction, along with Andrews, Yorkshire Terrier and South Riding and things became fairly stable - a "death of a thousand cuts" as Tracky tried to rationalise the assortment of routes they'd inherited (culminating in the "Lowedges to Wath via High Green" service 72!) and focus on a few corridors. Also, by the mid '90s, the new-fangled Supertram was taking a huge chunk out of some key corridors, so the days of "bus competition" were replaced by "bus survival", as operators tried to keep viable services.

Wish I'd had a digital camera back then - there were some horribly congested bus stops, superannuated "sheds", mayhem... If I were younger today, I don't think that I'd have got as interested in buses - so bland in comparison.

Omnibus set up shop in Nottingham for a couple of years in the early 90s too: http://www.bcv.robsly.com/nottomni.html

They have been, to date, the only serious challenge NCT have faced. Other lesser challenges came from Bellamys who tried running the Arnold route with Routemasters for a few months and Premiere who took on the Woodborough Road services by forcing multiple tendered services together as the Red7.

Trent had a much tougher fight with Premiere, and not long after Omnibus disappeared they faced competition from Deltabus (who, I believe, were funded by TravelWM as some kind of attempt to turn the screw on them).

 

[Andyh82]

Your bus competed with NCT for a time as well, on either the pink or orange route out west, before turning to Trent Barton and latterly Arriva Derby

 

[WillPS]

Your bus competed with NCT for a time as well, on either the pink or orange route out west, before turning to Trent Barton and latterly Arriva Derby

Of course, you're right. They also ran routes competing with the tram back when NCT operated them.

 

[Pat1105]

In Wolverhampton, there’s strong competition on route 11 (Wolverhampton - Underhill) between Travel Express/Let’s Go and National Express West Midlands. Travel Express have been running ahead of timetable and cutting up NX to get to the passengers. I heard of an incidence the other week (on route 1 Wolverhampton - Tettenhall Wood) where a driver did a U turn to pick up more passengers that had just arrived at the stop he’d departed. They’ve recently been to a PI and have another one in the coming weeks, so we’ll see what the outcome is.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Omnibus even ran competing evening services on the 52 (where Yorkshire Terrier were the "daytime" competition to Mainline) - I know that some "newcomers" provide an all-day service when competing with an established operator but I'm not aware of any examples of a "newcomer" providing a commercial evening service in competition with an established operator when that "newcomer" don't even provide the daytime service.

In the early 1990s Trent Barton had competition from Delta Bus based at Kirkby in Ashfield. On what is now Trent Bartons Rainbow One route (then R10/1/2/3) Delta started by running a half hourly EVENING only service between Nottingham & Heanor numbered D10 & D11. Eventually a 20 minute daytime service was also added. Certainly a different way to start competition!

 

[mlambeuk]

In the early 2000's there was competition between Arriva and HCT on the York to Selby route, with HCT using The "Selby and district" name (the name that Arriva formerly used)

 

[robertclark125]

Weybus v southern national in Weymouth, Dorset, was one where there were arguments between drivers. The local tc got involved, and both firms received restrictions. Southern national were banned from route 1 to Portland bill. They bypassed the ruling by registering the service under the Dorset travel licence, and weybus succumbed.

 

[Eyersey468]

I have heard that Hull Corporation or whatever they were were called at the time of the bus war were days off going bust and at the last second EYMS took the pressure off.

 

[87007]

Warrington had an interesting time too..

http://www.mywarrington.me.uk/on_the_buses.htm

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Darlington - the nearly full story....

Phase One
Prior to deregulation in mid 1986, Darlington Transport and Eden Bus Services were discussing how to deal with the impending threats and opportunities of D-Day. They decided to run services between Darlington and Newton Aycliffe under the DART brand, with Eden extending their Bishop to N Aycliffe services to Darlington. United responded by moving some VRs to Darlington and run additional shorts on services, and introduced a fast express from Bishop and Darlington to Middlesbrough to head off DTC doing so. At the same time, United introduced a batch of Merc minis on services linking Whinbush with Firth and Brankin Moor, the busiest DTC routes.

At de-reg, there were tender gains and losses on both sides. DTC gained evening and Sunday services to Middlesbrough and Spennymoor whilst United conversely gained Darlington local services on a Sunday. United introduced more minibuses but mainly in Newton Aycliffe but also a route to the suburb of Hummersknott (not a big draw). However, by mid 1987, they introduced more minibuses operating all over the town to outlying estates like Red Hall and Skerne Park and other parts of town not adequately served by DTC's fleet of conventional single deckers (like Broadway). DTC responded by operating to the nearby large village of Hurworth, aided by winning the tender for evening and Sunday journeys and starting their own Newcastle express.

Phase Two

The purchase of United by Caldaire (West Riding) came at the end of 1987 and this signified a pulling back of the worst of bus war. By 1989, United had pulled back on the major competition, still competing on the main Darlington routes and drawing their horns on some more peripheral elements. DTC even began to replace the fleet modestly with new minis and some Nottingham Fleetlines to replace the more esoteric vehicle types.

There were a few tender swaps with United regaining the Middlesbrough Sundays but more significantly, DTC expanded into North Yorkshire. They won the Richmond to Catterick circulars so United registered the daytime part commercially; whilst the tender was largely pulled, DTC ran the full service anyway and did a really good job of it. Later on, they took the Darlington - Richmond - Catterick evening tenders though United then registered Thu-Sat commercially. However, an uneasy peace was established d

Phase Three

Caldaire Holdings directors (4 of them) had a parting of the ways, with two of them taking the NE business as Westcourt Holdings. Outwardly known by three trading IDs (United, Tees and TMS) under the North East Bus banner, they recognised that the NEB fleet needed investment with new bus orders being accompanied by cost cutting on back office. As a result, the United MD (Andy Guest) was made redundant in 1992. He was quite embittered so he decided to strike back with a commercial operation in Darlington called South Durham Bus Co t/a Your Bus using a fleet of Iveco minis (and a couple of Transits).

This provocative action prompted United to respond and so service frequencies on the main routes were uplifted, with minibuses being drafted in from across the NEB fleet . Your Bus continued to expand, United did likewise with hired vehicles from firms like Ingfield Northern Rose whilst DTC were initially caught in the crossfire. However, with United having departed from the truce, DTC responded by buying more deckers from Nottingham, ex GM Leopards and hiring vehicles from West Midlands Travel, Go Ahead Northern, and Chester CT among others and registering more town services as well as routes to Ferryhill and the main route to Richmond and Catterick. For instance, the country run to Richmond and Catterick would see the usual half hourly Optare Vecta on the United X27/X28 behind a former Busways/GM Buses Leopard on the competing 22/22A that was in turn following some archaic United LH on a copy cat 12/12A.

DTC had been funded by a loan from the main shareholder, Darlington Borough Council, who then put DTC up for sale. We all know what then happened in that Yorkshire Traction trumped Stagecoach's bid so Stagecoach flooded the town with free buses drafted in from across their empire, duplicated the registrations by literally using the same paperwork but subtly amended, and poached the vast majority of DTC's drivers with the business turning turtle about three days later. In that environment, Your Bus quickly sold out to North East Bus aka United (by now owned by West Midlands Travel) and the two parties set about de-escalating the battle and retreating to their own pockets but with some areas still being served by both firms. Most Stagecoach operations were town services, but with a substantial schools contract operation and the Newcastle Express that initially prospered with some B10M/PS and then some Interurbans. However, the Express declined markedly and smaller firms swept up the schools work so the Stagecoach operation at sale time was much reduced.

Hope that wasn't too boring

 

[LancasterRed]

Preston Bus v Stagecoach ended up in court and got rather violent. Ended up a merger between the two companies and even then after they sold to Rotala two years later Stagecoach fought back by taking the 9 and 11 and introducing the 32. Stagecoach also fully locked down the rights to the 3 which had bounced between the two in recent years and remains a money-spinner.

Rotala are now starting to struggle, having lost services to Stagecoach and Coastal Coaches in recent times.

 

[anthony263]

Courtesy of Mr Clayton Jones as well as the voracious appetite of National Welsh to enter into battles....

Cardiff bus against 2travel

 

[chessie]

I maybe totally wrong here but I have a vague recollection of a bbc programme regarding bus privatisation in Scotland..cue the shot of Thurso where it looked like there was more buses than people living there

 

[90sWereBetter]

Preston Bus v Stagecoach ended up in court and got rather violent. Ended up a merger between the two companies and even then after they sold to Rotala two years later Stagecoach fought back by taking the 9 and 11 and introducing the 32. Stagecoach also fully locked down the rights to the 3 which had bounced between the two in recent years and remains a money-spinner.

Rotala are now starting to struggle, having lost services to Stagecoach and Coastal Coaches in recent times.

This one didn't seem to make much sense. PB and Stagecoach Ribble coexisted peacefully for years, and then suddenly Stagecoach start flooding the place with new Solos and competing routes in early 2007. PB retaliate with loads of new Solos as well, and then sell up shop to their competitors shortly afterwards. The war was apparently the reason why PB didn't put on a special farewell day for their Leyland Atlanteans in summer 2007, which from an enthusiast point of view was pretty sad as this was probably the last substantial fleet of them anywhere in the UK.

Arriva nearly set off a bus war against the ailing Chester municipal around the same time iirc, registering all of their services in an attempt to buy the company out. Cue some court action and the eventual sale to First which cooled things off. The real surprise here is how long ChesterBus managed to last in the deregulated era given how superannuated most of their fleet was

But still, nothing comes close to the UK North/GM Buses fiasco. I seem to recall this wasn't the first time these cowboys had ended up in court (think they had a company called MyBus or Denton Discount in the early 1990s).

 

[Trainfan2019]

Sheffield had two periods. The first five years of de-regulation had lots of "breadvans" and other second hand vehicles pressed into service on random routes by any old cowboy - similar to many large cities - but SYT (South Yorkshire Transport - later Mainline, now First) bought a number of them and things calmed down.

But nature abhors a vacuum, and competition came back (just as SYT were going through a court case for abusing their monopoly position). The "worst" era was around 1993/1994/1995 when Sheffield Omnibus competed on pretty much every route they could - it's ridiculous nowadays when you look back and remember that there was an Omnibus service every ten minutes competing with a Mainline service every ten/fifteen minutes on corridors that now only have one bus per hour in total (e.g. the 93/94 from the city centre to Meadowhall via Grimesthorpe, the 17/18 from the city centre to Fox Hill via Hillsborough, the 1/11/21/57/66/67 from the city centre to Stocksbridge via Hillsborough).

Omnibus even ran competing evening services on the 52 (where Yorkshire Terrier were the "daytime" competition to Mainline) - I know that some "newcomers" provide an all-day service when competing with an established operator but I'm not aware of any examples of a "newcomer" providing a commercial evening service in competition with an established operator when that "newcomer" don't even provide the daytime service.

Omnibus had the clever tactic of buying lots of redundant double deckers from Preston, which were coincidently in the traditional navy/cream colours of old Sheffield buses - they were pretty good at identifying gaps in the Mainline network (and sections of route where the incumbent operator went a bit round the houses rather than running direct, or where Mainline served the quieter side of the city centre around the Interchange so Omnibus could run up High Street and be a lot more convenient for passengers).

In those days, the *weekly* ticket price went down to two quid at one point (not single ticket, not daily ticket, I'm talking seven days of travel!), as the two operators fought tooth and nail (the Mainline ticket - I think it was called "red saver" - was only valid on the generally north-south corridor that Omnibus operated on - but still very generous if you lived on those sides of town). There were duplicates, there were unregistered services, there were often spare buses sat at places like Lane Top waiting for the "other" operator's bus to turn up so that they could ensure that they were first to the lucrative stops ahead (e.g. Firth Park, in that example).

Whilst there were other independent operators in Sheffield, nothing got as bad as the Omnibus/Mainline days (most of the post 1990 ones stuck to certain key corridors - e.g. the two main east-west Stagecoach routes - the 52 and 120 - have been operated by their predecessors for thirty years now). Eventually, Omnibus was bought by Yorkshire Traction, along with Andrews, Yorkshire Terrier and South Riding and things became fairly stable - a "death of a thousand cuts" as Tracky tried to rationalise the assortment of routes they'd inherited (culminating in the "Lowedges to Wath via High Green" service 72!) and focus on a few corridors. Also, by the mid '90s, the new-fangled Supertram was taking a huge chunk out of some key corridors, so the days of "bus competition" were replaced by "bus survival", as operators tried to keep viable services.

Wish I'd had a digital camera back then - there were some horribly congested bus stops, superannuated "sheds", mayhem... If I were younger today, I don't think that I'd have got as interested in buses - so bland in comparison.

Ah yes I remember those days of the Sheffield bus wars. It's hard to believe just how competitive it was but it really did happen. There were some right old buses out in service back then, loads of Leyland Nationals everywhere in allsorts of colours. Wasn't it Sheafline who started up with some ex-SYT staff?

 

[vlad]

There was certainly no love lost between First and Arriva in north Staffordshire.

I think the worst case was the route between Newcastle and Burslem and on into the suburbs, where both companies ran exactly the same route. More often than you'd expect there was a timetable change and one of the companies would start running their buses about 5 minutes before the other's (so as to pick up all the passengers but not to get overtaken). The second company would then alter its timetable to 5 minutes before the first and the whole thing would start again.

On one Arriva bus the driver stopped for longer than usual in Burslem to have a long phone conversation with his manager about how First had done it again....

First eventually won - Arriva pulled out of the area and D&G decided that wasn't a route they'd bother to take over.

 

[ACBest]

Was there not a bus war in Scotland which ended up in a rival setting fire to a Stagecoach depot?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Was there not a bus war in Scotland which ended up in a rival setting fire to a Stagecoach depot?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4713656.stm

 

[sannox]

Was there not a bus war in Scotland which ended up in a rival setting fire to a Stagecoach depot?

Presumably this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4713656.stm

I remember Paisley having a bus war where there were a operator started up using the same number, livery, route and virtually the same name as the established Dickson's business. Traffic commissioner took a dim view of it!

 

[PG]

Darlington - the nearly full story....
[SNIP]
Hope that wasn't too boring

Not at all, thanks for posting

 

[M28361M]

2 former PTE operators, MTL Merseybus/GM Buses war 92-95, it's peak was winter 93/94, MTL rebranded St Helens depot to Lancashire Travel, & operated a depot in Manchester under MTL Manchester brand, GM Buses, set up a depot in Bootle, & Birkenhead, the Birkenhead depot was branded as Birkenhead & District, an outstation of Princess Road depot.

A gentleman's agreement in summer 95, meant that they withdrew from each others areas

If I remember correctly, the Birkenhead operation used a similar blue livery to the old Birkenhead Corporation, presumably an attempt to take advantage of passengers' nostalgia. Another memory is that GM Buses managed to spell "Fazakerley" incorrectly on their destination blinds - cue much merriment in the Liverpool Echo.

One sad side-effect of the gentleman's agreement was that the number 34 Liverpool-Manchester express bus, which pre-dated the bus war and had operated for many years, was withdrawn.

 

[Whisky Papa]

That bus war is near non existent now. Stagecoach pretty much won when the last remaining independent Finglands were sold.

It’s a far cry from when UK North were competing all over the place with shoddy buses and even shoddier drivers running every few minutes in front of Stagecoach

Edit: I see UK North have already been mentioned.

Oi! Not all the drivers were shoddy - I worked at UK North for 18 months, not because I particularly agreed with what they were doing, but simply because they offered a shift pattern that suited me. In fact, I pretty much wrote my own - Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, then off Thursday (quiz night on Wednesday so don't want to drive the morning after!) and alternate Fridays or Saturdays. Starting sometime 0730-0800, finish 1540-1800, you tended to work a regular duty which in my case changed five times over that period. The worst thing about the duties was the lack of a proper canteen facility, instead you were just expected to find somewhere to park in the city centre for the allotted time. The main reason I left was that I didn't want to spend a second summer in a permanent state of dehydration because I daren't drink enough, knowing toilet facilities were pretty hit and miss.

But yes, it is fair to say some drivers probably had chequered histories, and some certainly took the competetive angle more seriously than I did. The vehicles weren't pristine, but I rarely had any serious issue - the Olympians could be great to drive, in fact. What was weird, coming from a larger and more reputable operator, was things like remembering to check you had an operator's disc when you took the bus from depot.

It is probably also often overlooked that UK North worked a lot of school contracts too. Over my time there, I worked to schools in Hazel Grove, Brookhouse in Patricroft, Gee Cross (from Hattersley, fortunately with a supervisor riding shotgun) and finally one in Newall Green, Wythenshawe. We also did after-match buses from Old Trafford and, later, the Etihad. As for competing all over the place, the only daytime route they did was the 250 from Piccadilly to the Trafford Centre, on Saturdays (and possibly Sunday, but I didn't generally work Sundays). This at least made a change, although at one time the running time was ridiculously tight. There were other services that ran as night services, but they had there own late shift drivers, who got paid a slightly higher wage than us day shift types.

I personally think it was a grave mistake by the company to start the competing GM Buses operation on the 192 Manchester-Hazel Grove route, and possibly a bigger mistake by the Traffic Commissioner to allow the firm to vastly increase its number of vehicles by creating that subsidiary. This was pretty much the time I left, so I can't really add any insight as to what happened later. Despite the owners seeming to have a major grudge against Stagecoach and going to ridiculous lengths to prove it, not everyone was quite so unreasonable - I have occasionally bumped into one former manager who has, eventually, gone on to forge a respectable career in the industry.

 

[ag51ruk]

Your bus competed with NCT for a time as well, on either the pink or orange route out west, before turning to Trent Barton and latterly Arriva Derby

In Derby, you have to go back a lot further for any real compeition - the late 80s/early 90s saw two different "bus wars"

Mercian Midland Red (part of Midland Red North?) set up a small depot in Derby and started running bread-van minibuses every five or ten minutes on a number of routes competing with Derby City Transport (who became Arriva Derby). In response, DCT introduced their own minibuses for the first time, and also launched some short-lived routes in Lichfield.

Camms of Nottingham also competed with Derby City Transport and Trent on various routes in Derby, with an assortment of old double deck buses. They were eventually forced out and sold their Derby operations to DCT, who operated some of the routes in Camms liveried buses for a time afterwards,

 

[PG]

What was weird, coming from a larger and more reputable operator, was things like remembering to check you had an operator's disc when you took the bus from depot.

I've worked for a major operator and refused to take over a bus which was out in service minus O licence so it does happen to the big boys too...

 

[gordonthemoron]

DTC were brilliant, and it is a crying shame what happened to them