Worst Decision by a TOC?

[SprinterMan]

Well, I realise it's all subjective. I just wish they'd made it into Southern's two tone green livery, which I've always found much more pleasing

Yeah, the few 421s that got that colour scheme looked great.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmupton2000/5862921297/in/photostream/

 

[John55]

Those were the non-corridoor compartments which one couldn't leave until the train had stopped. The VEP's and CIG's had corridoor compartments which survived on some units until the end. The new seating bays had the same footprint as the compartments had had, so they could still have reconfigured the seating to get four on each side.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Probably true - although I very much doubt it would have taken BR over fifteen years to complete.

Given that it was BR who gave up on the 12 car scheme and it is only now going ahead because of the rebuilding of London Bridge I don't see why BR would have taken it forward earlier.

 

[northwichcat]

What about decisions to not refurbish stock?

The 150s that ATN had and before them Valley Lines had were in terrible condition, while the 142s that FNW had needed new seats not just new seat covers.

 

[fgwrich]

What about decisions to not refurbish stock?

The 150s that ATN had and before them Valley Lines had were in terrible condition, while the 142s that FNW had needed new seats not just new seat covers.

And some of ATWs could do with a good bit of work having traveled on a couple a few weeks ago, one ex Wessex example that looked as if it was missing both internal doors - by the looks of it, it would appear that it had the hinges ripped off of the wall from the coach that i was in. :roll:

 

[SprinterMan]

And some of ATWs could do with a good bit of work having traveled on a couple a few weeks ago, one ex Wessex example that looked as if it was missing both internal doors - by the looks of it, it would appear that it had the hinges ripped off of the wall from the coach that i was in :roll:

I second this, ATW's 150s are knackered.

 

[fgwrich]

Yeah, the few 421s that got that colour scheme looked great.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmupton2000/5862921297/in/photostream/

As did the 205s that were repainted too

http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?Thumper_sthn.jpg

Would have looked good in that though!

 

[PHILIPE]

FGW in December 2006 in new franchise when 7 X 150s went to ATW and 153s and 158s put into store. Result severe ovrcrowding that made the headlines and sparked a 1 day Fares revolt. The Cardiff Pompeys wre returned to 2 Car 158s and other previous strengthening removed. Not all FGWs fault but DFTs but I don't think FGW protested at the time. Sets eventually taken out of store (168s), 150121 and 127 obtained by Silverlink after new MD appointed, the previous one being shuffled to another job.
TPE operating Manchester to Scotland with 185s but this entirely due to DaFT

 

[yorksrob]

Given that it was BR who gave up on the 12 car scheme and it is only now going ahead because of the rebuilding of London Bridge I don't see why BR would have taken it forward earlier.

Bearing in mind, the total route modernisation came to fruition during recession, something to which South Eastern peak hour receipts and passenger numbers have always been vulnerable, it is perhaps understandable that BR didn't the roll out the twelve car train scheme at first and spent what money it had on something more pressing. Of course, we can't know for sure whether they would have completed the scheme, however, I suspect they would have done it for the same reason they planned to do it in the first place - to cope with rising passenger numbers.

As to why nothing has been done during the entire past fifteen years, which, lest we forget, have largely co-incided with an economic boom, you'd have to ask the privatisers.

 

[sprinterguy]

I second this, ATW's 150s are knackered.

Upon scrutiny of my Platform 5 pocket book, I've only just realised that ATW have got two different types of interior on their 150s I believe that I've only travelled on ATW refurbished units, and not the other sort. The ones I've travelled on have all been exceedingly pleasant. Especially compared to examples operated by Northern, and formerly London Midland. But as I say, I can't judge the quality of ATWs' "other type" of 150.

 

[Michael.Y]

Upon scrutiny of my Platform 5 pocket book, I've only just realised that ATW have got two different types of interior on their 150s I believe that I've only travelled on ATW refurbished units, and not the other sort. The ones I've travelled on have all been exceedingly pleasant. Especially compared to examples operated by Northern, and formerly London Midland. But as I say, I can't judge the quality of ATWs' "other type" of 150.

Easiest way to tell them apart is the colour of the handles on the seats -- green are the refurbished units, purple are ex-Wessex units. Some also have decals of castles on the ends of the carriages. There are also one or two which still have foot-operated pump taps in the johns.

 

[SprinterMan]

FGW in December 2006 in new franchise when 7 X 150s went to ATW and 153s and 158s put into store. Result severe ovrcrowding that made the headlines and sparked a 1 day Fares revolt. The Cardiff Pompeys wre returned to 2 Car 158s and other previous strengthening removed. Not all FGWs fault but DFTs but I don't think FGW protested at the time. Sets eventually taken out of store (168s), 150121 and 127 obtained by Silverlink after new MD appointed, the previous one being shuffled to another job.
TPE operating Manchester to Scotland with 185s but this entirely due to DaFT

Oh yeah, I remember this. That was insane! Why the hell did the DFT think it was a good idea. I heard rumours at the time that the 4 stored units would be scrapped. Thank god they are now in the loving care of EMT, and have recieved a good refurb.

On a separate note, East Anglia has lost DMUs since Anglia days, when there were 10 150s and 7 153s, now we have 9 156s and 5 153s, which is a shame. The 2 153s are with EMT now, and I think the 150s went to Arriva, or maybe FGW. Anyone know for sure where Anglia's 150/2s went after CT?

 

[PHILIPE]

Oh yeah, I remember this. That was insane! Why the hell did the DFT think it was a good idea. I heard rumours at the time that the 4 stored units would be scrapped. Thank god they are now in the loving care of EMT, and have recieved a good refurb.

On a separate note, East Anglia has lost DMUs since Anglia days, when there were 10 150s and 7 153s, now we have 9 156s and 5 153s, which is a shame. The 2 153s are with EMT now, and I think the 150s went to Arriva, or maybe FGW. Anyone know for sure where Anglia's 150/2s went after CT?

I thought all the 150/2s went to ATW (Not FGW by the way). If any went to CT they were carried forward to LM, split as used a centre cars to 150/1s and now they would be with either FGW or Northern Rail.

 

[tbtc]

East Anglia has lost DMUs since Anglia days, when there were 10 150s and 7 153s, now we have 9 156s and 5 153s, which is a shame

...and the dozen 170s?

 

[jopsuk]

The DMUs they have are more sensibly used as well, running almost entirely away from the wires leaving the mainline paths to Liverpool Street for longer EMU formations.

 

[LE Greys]

Whoever it was who let the GNER-operated Eurostars go to France, to be replaced by HSTs that could have gone to XC instead. Probably the same genius who decided not to introduce Class 90s to replace them.

 

[SprinterMan]

...and the dozen 170s?

Anglia had them also, but used them to London and Norwich-Cambridge only.

 

[dosxuk]

Anglia had them also, but used them to London and Norwich-Cambridge only.

And their Crossrail service along the NLL and to rent out to Hull Trains.

 

[185]

Simple question, in your opinion, since privatisation, what is the single worst decision made by a TOC?

Winner: FirstBus

Reason: Bidding for anything on the railway

 

[Zoe]

Winner: FirstBus

Reason: Bidding for anything on the railway

The one franchise FirstBus bid for on their own and won (Great Eastern) before they became FirstGroup was actually not that bad.

 

[fgwrich]

FGW in December 2006 in new franchise when 7 X 150s went to ATW and 153s and 158s put into store. Result severe ovrcrowding that made the headlines and sparked a 1 day Fares revolt. The Cardiff Pompeys wre returned to 2 Car 158s and other previous strengthening removed. Not all FGWs fault but DFTs but I don't think FGW protested at the time. Sets eventually taken out of store (168s), 150121 and 127 obtained by Silverlink after new MD appointed, the previous one being shuffled to another job.
TPE operating Manchester to Scotland with 185s but this entirely due to DaFT

Which reminds me - Guess which former First Great Western MDs name seems to be mooted for this wonderful (awful) new NXGWT if they get it?...Yes, cast your minds back to 2006, Her again...:roll:

I thought all the 150/2s went to ATW (Not FGW by the way). If any went to CT they were carried forward to LM, split as used a centre cars to 150/1s and now they would be with either FGW or Northern Rail.

As both franchises were part of the once Mighty National Express Group at the time, NX decided to do an almost like for like swap between the Tysley based class 156s to Norwich Crown Point, with the 10 Ex Anglia 150s transferring across to Tysley to work West Midlands services - with subtle livery modification of course, before eventually transferring across to Arriva Trains Wales.

Working for ((( Central Trains

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1245166197&k=QJj5J&lb=1&s=A

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1245166569&k=otXXQ&lb=1&s=A


And Working for ATW
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1228919706&k=2x7Eq&lb=1&s=A

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1217370282&k=2NqSm&lb=1&s=A

Oh yeah, I remember this. That was insane! Why the hell did the DFT think it was a good idea. I heard rumours at the time that the 4 stored units would be scrapped. Thank god they are now in the loving care of EMT, and have received a good refurb....

Good - They needed it, as those 4 were apparently always the dogs off the Wessex fleet, with one reported to still have a rather annoying whistling noise somewhere emitting from the small end cab (but then again, Wessex Trains expenditure on maintenance was always more of patch it up with filler and vinyl and get it back into service)...And at least East Midlands Trains are finally getting rid of those awful ex Class 158 Seats in them - they might be ok in a 158, but not in a 153.

In fact, there’s a nomination or two...

Whoever decided to install class 158 Seats into 153s are idioits - for a start, the seats were far far to low and wholly unsuitable for a 153....

And if were going on that basis about bidding for Franchises - National 'Dogged' Express...A company so image focused, that they forgot how to actually run a franchise...ONE, Wessex Trains etc...

At least First Group has done alot to improve both itself and First Great Western - I saw a comment over on the FGW Coffee shop that other day pondering the thought that if Nat Ex had took the Greater Western Franchise back in 2006, would we still be running Valenta powered HSTs patched up with yet another vinyl livery? :roll:

 

[Zoe]

Which reminds me - Guess which former First Great Western MDs name seems to be mooted for this wonderful (awful) new NXGWT if they get it?...Yes, cast your minds back to 2006, Her again...

Even though a former First Capital Connect Managing Director is currently leading the National Express bid for the Great Western franchise?

 

[fgwrich]

Even though a former First Capital Connect Managing Director is currently leading the National Express bid for the Great Western franchise?

Yep, It seems Ms Holt is National Expresses new Bid Team director, With also ex First Group Dean Finch in charge of National Express as MD...

 

[Zoe]

Yep, It seems Ms Holt is National Expresses new Bid Team director, With also ex First Group Dean Finch in charge of National Express as MD...

So if National Express win the franchise then it could be Alison Forster rather than Elaine Holt that would be the Managing Director?

 

[fgwrich]

So if National Express win the franchise then it could be Alison Forster rather than Elaine Holt that would be the Managing Director?

That's what im gathering at the moment, as said, Elaine Holt is just leading up the bid team for NX, with the potential MD as yet undecided - though unfortunatly Alison Forsters name does seem to be floating around the words NX & Great Western Franchise at the moment...

So, if in the unlikely event that they did get a chance...How to drag a franchise down in one hit?! - or for the purposes of this thread, Worst descision by a future TOC?

 

[SprinterMan]

Which reminds me - Guess which former First Great Western MDs name seems to be mooted for this wonderful (awful) new NXGWT if they get it?...Yes, cast your minds back to 2006, Her again...:roll:



As both franchises were part of the once Mighty National Express Group at the time, NX decided to do an almost like for like swap between the Tysley based class 156s to Norwich Crown Point, with the 10 Ex Anglia 150s transferring across to Tysley to work West Midlands services - with subtle livery modification of course, before eventually transferring across to Arriva Trains Wales.

Working for ((( Central Trains

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1245166197&k=QJj5J&lb=1&s=A

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1245166569&k=otXXQ&lb=1&s=A


And Working for ATW
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1228919706&k=2x7Eq&lb=1&s=A

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UK...6179017_5HBg7J#!i=1217370282&k=2NqSm&lb=1&s=A



Good - They needed it, as those 4 were apparently always the dogs off the Wessex fleet, with one reported to still have a rather annoying whistling noise somewhere emitting from the small end cab (but then again, Wessex Trains expenditure on maintenance was always more of patch it up with filler and vinyl and get it back into service)...And at least East Midlands Trains are finally getting rid of those awful ex Class 158 Seats in them - they might be ok in a 158, but not in a 153.

In fact, there’s a nomination or two...

Whoever decided to install class 158 Seats into 153s are idioits - for a start, the seats were far far to low and wholly unsuitable for a 153....

And if were going on that basis about bidding for Franchises - National 'Dogged' Express...A company so image focused, that they forgot how to actually run a franchise...ONE, Wessex Trains etc...

At least First Group has done alot to improve both itself and First Great Western - I saw a comment over on the FGW Coffee shop that other day pondering the thought that if Nat Ex had took the Greater Western Franchise back in 2006, would we still be running Valenta powered HSTs patched up with yet another vinyl livery? :roll:

Yeah, FGW has really reinvented itself over the years, they are brilliant now, after many years of mediocrity in the mid 2000s. I do hope we don't get NXGW, I will actually give up on the national rail network if that happens. I almost gave up on it before after NXEA killed 'one'. NXGW's manager, with more power and a little LSD perhaps, could easily be the second coming of Dr Beeching, so lets hope they don't win, although personally I think that NX will never be given a franchise again (except maybe c2c) and should have taken not being shortlisted for GE as a hint, and go back to running coaches.

Also, talk about vinyl patches, for most of NXEA's reign of terror, their 153s were held together by dirt, as far as anyone could tell. Poor things, falling apart and filthy. Greater Anglia has started to put this right.

Looking at those photos made me kinda sad remembering all the great names we have lost over the years:
Central Trains
First North Western
Wessex Trains
Anglia Railways
May they be remembered fondly.

 

[MrJamesBrown]

No growth franchises...

 

[Schnellzug]

Whoever it was who let the GNER-operated Eurostars go to France, to be replaced by HSTs that could have gone to XC instead. Probably the same genius who decided not to introduce Class 90s to replace them.

To be fair though, the 373/3s were limited to 110 on the EC, and were probably a bit longer than was really necessary, or convenient, and SNCf could probably make better use of them..

So if National Express win the franchise then it could be Alison Forster rather than Elaine Holt that would be the Managing Director?

So, as if National Excuse didn't have a bad enough reputation as it is, they might even be thinking of bringing in the worst manager any railway company has ever had? They're really taking advantage of that absurd idea that past performance isn't taken into account when selecting bids, aren't they.

 

[Failed Unit]

Yeah, FGW has really reinvented itself over the years, they are brilliant now, after many years of mediocrity in the mid 2000s. I do hope we don't get NXGW, I will actually give up on the national rail network if that happens. I almost gave up on it before after NXEA killed 'one'. NXGW's manager, with more power and a little LSD perhaps, could easily be the second coming of Dr Beeching, so lets hope they don't win, although personally I think that NX will never be given a franchise again (except maybe c2c) and should have taken not being shortlisted for GE as a hint, and go back to running coaches.

Also, talk about vinyl patches, for most of NXEA's reign of terror, their 153s were held together by dirt, as far as anyone could tell. Poor things, falling apart and filthy. Greater Anglia has started to put this right.

Looking at those photos made me kinda sad remembering all the great names we have lost over the years:
Central Trains
First North Western
Wessex Trains
Anglia Railways
May they be remembered fondly.

I will remember CT - as the way not to operate a railway!

 

[Masbroughlad]

For what it's worth, I think XC would have done better staying with Virgin. At least it would have made for a better network.

Me too. Doubt they will ever bid for it again unfortunately.

Other mistakes:

NWT stopping North West to London services

Taking WCML to Scotland off XC - infact pulling the original XC franchise map to pieces.

Giving Leeds- Nottingham to Northern - should have been EMT or XC

Taking Eurostar away from GNER (or whatever reason they left)

Sure there are loads more!

 

[northwichcat]

Oh yeah, I remember this. That was insane! Why the hell did the DFT think it was a good idea. I heard rumours at the time that the 4 stored units would be scrapped.

Hadn't FGW just received some 158s from TPE at the time?

And didn't they have 4 ex-CT units which were subleased from Northern?