Worst train designs ever

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
could it be a 144?
No suspension and only 4 wheels per carraige, it really was designed to be a bus on rails, no consideration oon passenger comfort. Get packed very quickley, huge step to get off, if you stand up you wont be up for very long.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Galvanize

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
951
Location
South East london
507/508/313/314/315 family:

They make me feel sick, low backed seats, slip and slide too much, poorly maintained (especially the SET ones :x). Only the refurbs are good (yet to go to Merseyside to go on them)
 

Nick

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
976
As far as I can see it, the Pacer design was based on an idea to provide trains at a cheap cost and running cost and quick alighting/arriving via the doors. As such, the unit is fitted with a bus style, in hope they'd open faster than the 'plug' style and wouldn't cost as much as the internal slide doors.

At the time of there construction, a brief was set out to provide a cheap to run 'rail bus' which was a bus but for the rails for many rural lines. Costs were cut on designing by using bus style seating and no bogie structure. In the late 1980's it was an embarrasement by British Rail that they were still using (albeit better than the current 'new' trains) 1960's slam door stock. As such they were ushered out and into service quick without a lot of consultation.

I wouldn't call it the worst design, but it was one of the cheapest!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
48,208
Location
Yorkshire
If it wasn't for the Pacer's cheap design, the then-Tory government would have closed some rural lines.
 

Nick

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
976
yorkie said:
If it wasn't for the Pacer's cheap design, the then-Tory government would have closed some rural lines.
My point exactly yorkie, the brief to designs was just that. To provide a bus on rails which was cheap to run for the rural lines.
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
1,823
There are no bad train designs, there is bad management of Rolling Stock though, for example would a Class 91+Mk4 stock work well on a Hertford Loop service from Kings Cross?

And likewise would a Class 313 do well on a Kings Cross-Glasgow service?

Trains are designed for specific operation, I dont have much of a problem with the 313-315 and 507/08's, they are commuter trains, it's just that they are put on services they are not meant to be on.

Comments on Pacers have already been made and I second them. :)
 

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
Every train has certain flaw and yes thinking about it cheapness was the point of the 144 and it looks like it wont be coming off of our railways anytime soon.
Bad management - 317s going to peterborough, 'One - a one way ticket'
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
48,208
Location
Yorkshire
Jamie C. Steel said:
I dont have much of a problem with the 313-315 and 507/08's, they are commuter trains, it's just that they are put on services they are not meant to be on.
The issue I have with them is regarding the layout of the windows & seats: not a single seat lines up with a window. it's almost as if they deliberately decided to deny people a window view! But that possibly could be changed with a thorough refurbishment, maybe.
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
1,823
They were designed in the understanding that most passengers would be commuters who travel the route every day and dont really care about a good window view.


Also, the Doors need somewhere to go when they are open, and that's why there isnt much window space.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
48,208
Location
Yorkshire
Jamie C. Steel said:
They were designed in the understanding that most passengers would be commuters who travel the route every day and dont really care about a good window view.
Seems very odd that they went out of their way to ensure no-one gets a window view, and it hardly encourages leisure travel. The trains are required to work more than just peak hour services.
 

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
Rail travel was originally designed to be very luxurious if only it wre still like that but was also cheap. Impossible. But aswell as that if you were a commuter would you reallywant to travel on something like that, you just want to get from a to b
 

KevinR

Member
Joined
31 Jul 2005
Messages
19
Location
UK
Galvanize said:
507/508/313/314/315 family:

They make me feel sick, low backed seats, slip and slide too much, poorly maintained (especially the SET ones :x). Only the refurbs are good (yet to go to Merseyside to go on them)
Yea, the refurbished 508/7's here are a vast improvement over the unrefurbished wrecks that were here. Much more comfortable to ride in, with no more cramped 3x2 seating!
 

ChristopherJ

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2005
Messages
383
Location
London, UK
You wouldn't want to do a 315 from London Liverpool Street to Southend would you. ;)

(YES, 315's are allocated to Southend services in the early morning/late night, eww!)

Or even worse, a 313 from London Euston - Birmingham. :? (apparently happened when the Class 321's were taken out of service about a year ago)
 

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
315s dont have toilets, i cant remember if 313s have them, if they dont london to birmingham will be a very long journey, its already bad going to southend
 

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
ChristopherJ said:
You wouldn't want to do a 315 from London Liverpool Street to Southend would you. ;)

(YES, 315's are allocated to Southend services in the early morning/late night, eww!)

Or even worse, a 313 from London Euston - Birmingham. :? (apparently happened when the Class 321's were taken out of service about a year ago)
!!
 

Galvanize

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
951
Location
South East london
ChristopherJ said:
Or even worse, a 313 from London Euston - Birmingham. :? (apparently happened when the Class 321's were taken out of service about a year ago)
I had the misfortune to go on it from Euston-Milton Keynes, but T'was a WAGN one. Got chatting to a couple who booked FC in Silverlink (why i do not know because 87s/90s were still running then to BNS/Wolves) and had to make do with 2x3 standard class seats. I even suggested them changing at MKC for a Virgin service, but they said they'll make do with what they had :|
 

Craig

Established Member
Joined
15 Jun 2005
Messages
3,958
Location
Newcastle
142/143/144's aren't really as bad as some people make out. They certainly stopped many lines being closed. The main problem with them these days are them being used on unsuitable routes. I often travel from Newcastle to Hexham, this is an ideal route for them, short route, plenty of stops with relatively low line speeds. They start getting uncomfortable on routes like Carlisle - Middlesbrough.

The same can be said for Voyagers. They're not bad for, say, Newcastle - Birmingham. But longer runs like Edinburgh - Plymouth? No.
 

Jonno2055

Member
Joined
9 Aug 2005
Messages
390
Location
Essex
I hate being on a train, in a car or on a bus for hours, a national express bus leaves you sitting down for 7 hours to get from london to exeter. london to cornwall by train is 5 hours but at least you can get up and walk from the buffet to your seat a few times. Inbetween collapsing at the prices at the buffet, £1.25 for a bottle of warm coke?
 

Harold

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2005
Messages
624
Location
Southampton
I thought at first that the 458 juniper was one of the worst designs because the front looked hideous and they proved to be unreliable

but they gave a smooth ride

also i think that the 150/1 WAS one of the worst designs as well, although i like them

HBA135
 

AlexS

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2005
Messages
2,887
Location
Just outside the Black Country
Actually, they made two. 150001 and 150002. 150002 became 154001 and then got converted back to 150002. The 3 car Central 150/0s are all 150/1 and 150/2 hybrids, that have been renumbered 1500xx, EXCEPTING 001 and 002.
 

Tom B

Established Member
Joined
27 Jul 2005
Messages
4,531
Jonno2055 said:
Rail travel was originally designed to be very luxurious if only it wre still like that but was also cheap.
As you say - self contradictory.

Pacers perhaps had their use keeping lines open, but isn't it time for a replacement? You can fit fancy new seats and paint them bright pink but it will still be an awful train.
 

HSTfan!!!

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
1,966
i've been a sworn pacer hater for years and years but more recently I've start enjoying them, they are quite a laugh on the valley's I have to admit. I don't think I've had a pacer fail on me, but I have had 2 x 150/2's fail on me so I hate 150/2's as a result.
 

KevinR

Member
Joined
31 Jul 2005
Messages
19
Location
UK
HSTfan!!! said:
but I have had 2 x 150/2's fail on me so I hate 150/2's as a result.
Now, now lets not hate on them its not their fault, blame the company that maintains them! ;) I've been riding on 150/2's all over the place for years and never once [touch wood!] had a failure of any kind.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
17,659
Location
0035
ChristopherJ said:
(YES, 315's are allocated to Southend services in the early morning/late night, eww!)
I had the misfortune to get on one of those, at about 6pm in the evening from Shenfield.
Whilst we're on the subject of 315s, is what 'one' are having done to them supposed to be a refurbishment, because from what I can see, the seats are exactly the same, they're even in that NSE moquette.

Personally, I hate the 158s. Many are filthy, not due to the fault of the train, but due to neglect from their operators, the doors should never have been at the ends of the coaches, the train is very noisy and very hot and sticky because of the Air-con (I understand some TOCs are/have started a test with a new type of air-con).
I'd rather have refurbished a 143 or 150 any day.
 
Joined
5 Jul 2005
Messages
563
Location
House
After todays performance probably TPE scuds. Oh how I hate the minimal leg room so much.


No to mention been stuck in rail traffic for 2 hours stopped dead in 30 C carriages.


Horrible!
 

metrocammel

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2005
Messages
955
Location
Ashton, Lancashire
I dont actually mind 158's, but from where I live to get to Manchester it's ever a non-stop TPE 158 or a via 142 (usually though known to be a 156) via Ashton. So the 158 wins every time. There is no comparison, bus seats v's proper high back seats. 142 and the pacer family just look and feel cheap and nasty inside and out, and even the windows are only protected with a small film, not double glazed like most trains, so if your going through somewhere that flying bricks are a common occurance (like around Gorton outside Manchester or some rough outer-Liverpool estate) your more likely to get injured on a pacer than if you were on a 158 etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top