Wortley Curve to Reopen?

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Whistler40145

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I have just read an article regarding the possible reopening of the Wortley Curve.

Would it be possible to reinstate the curve without much work?

Also, if it is reinstated, would it provide a useful link for future services?
 
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Joseph_Locke

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I have just read an article regarding the possible reopening of the Wortley Curve.

Would it be possible to reinstate the curve without much work?

Also, if it is reinstated, would it provide a useful link for future services?
On the grand scale of such things, no. The formation appears to be clear and the bridges appear to be in, so other than signalling, the key issue will be reinstating the junctions at each end (traditional double junctions are resisted these days).

As to what it gives you, I doubt passenger services would use it as it by-passes Leeds, and I don't what freight flows you get on it (the weekly scrap thing from Bradford could miss Leeds out, but that hardly justifies it).

The only service I could see would be an "express" Bradford Interchange -> MML -> London service, missing Leeds (and therefre missing a business case, I should think)
 

AndyHudds

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Not everything in West Yorkshire need be Leedscentric as seems to be the popular misconception at the minute.

Could it not be used to take the pressure off Leeds station? If you live in Bradford and its districts and want to travel to London more often than not you'll change at Leeds to finish your journey. It would probably be of interest to open access operators to London maybe the East Midlands.

The track bed is still in tact, in fact the track in still in situ, so it could be brought back into use easily enough.
 

JohnB57

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Bradford is not too badly served already and I can't see that additional through fast services to Interchange would justify the cost of reinstatement and of missing Leeds out.

The current scrap train is on the Shipley/Forster Square line of course so it wouldn't derive any benefit. I think the Healey Mills/Laisterdyke scrap trains stopped a few years ago (any info welcome) but they would have been routed via Wakefield Kirkgate or Halifax anyway.
 

tbtc

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Not everything in West Yorkshire need be Leedscentric as seems to be the popular misconception at the minute.

Could it not be used to take the pressure off Leeds station? If you live in Bradford and its districts and want to travel to London more often than not you'll change at Leeds to finish your journey
The current Bradford - London services have passengers doing Bradford - Leeds, Bradford - London and Leeds - London.

Omitting Leeds and your service only has the Bradford - Leeds passengers on board, which means a lot fewer passengers.

Even Grand Central now want to serve Leeds on their Bradford service.
 

9K43

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This curve at Leeds was kept open for a Summer Saturday DMU job to Castleford from Bradford Interchange.( Blackpool)
I worked the last DMU job from Bradford to Cass, before this curve was shut.
This job was given to Healey Mills as Leeds could not cover it.
When Leeds city was modernised, there was a lot of relaying track in this area, and I think this curve is still in situe, but truncated at either end.
If I look through my diaries I maybe able to tell you the date of this DMU working.
The scrap train runs round at Bradford Interchange then runs through Engine shed Junction to Wakefield Turners Lane to go South at Hare Park Jct.
The Crossley Evans scrap train runs from Shipley to Whithall junction, Engine shed Jct to Turners Lane and Hare Park Jct.
 
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YorkshireBear

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Apparently the people of bradford want services to sheffield and the east midlands. Seen several newspaper articles on it. May also provide huddersfield with a faster service to sheffield.
 

Whistler40145

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So the Wortley Curve was kept open just for the convenience of a Summer Saturdays DMU job.

It doesn't seem good business sense to reopen the curve, except if there is really a case to provide a Bradford Interchange to Sheffield/Nottingham service which would avoid Leeds.

Another idea would be to electrify the Leeds to Bradford Interchange line, reinstate the Wortley Curve & electrify it & divert several trains from Doncaster to Bradford Interchange. I would doubt the platforms @ Bradford Interchange are long enough for a IC225 or Pendolino set?

How about a Doncaster-Bradford Interchange-Leeds-Doncaster service using electrified Hambleton West-South Junction?
 

Ploughman

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The track bed is still in tact, in fact the track in still in situ, so it could be brought back into use easily enough.
Some track is in place but not all.
Also the existing timber sleepers and BH rail are completely overgrown with trees all over the formation and especially in the 4ft so everything would need to be ripped out anyway and replaced.
 

JohnB57

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Apparently the people of bradford want services to sheffield and the east midlands. Seen several newspaper articles on it. May also provide huddersfield with a faster service to sheffield.
I think it's more likely that certain members of Bradford Council have their own interest in this as in my experience, they tend not to listen to the electorate.

And all they have to do to speed up Huddersfield/Sheffield is to change it to a proper train service rather than a bus on rails. It's my local line and frankly, deserves better.
 

YorkshireBear

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I think it's more likely that certain members of Bradford Council have their own interest in this as in my experience, they tend not to listen to the electorate.

And all they have to do to speed up Huddersfield/Sheffield is to change it to a proper train service rather than a bus on rails. It's my local line and frankly, deserves better.
Nothing to with type of rolling stock, its the service pattern (chapeltown) so is also partly my local line. A voyager couldnt do much better with current restriction between sheffield and huddersfield (slow, circuitious, passing loops, all station stops)
 

9K43

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So the Wortley Curve was kept open just for the convenience of a Summer Saturdays DMU job.

It doesn't seem good business sense to reopen the curve, except if there is really a case to provide a Bradford Interchange to Sheffield/Nottingham service which would avoid Leeds.

Another idea would be to electrify the Leeds to Bradford Interchange line, reinstate the Wortley Curve & electrify it & divert several trains from Doncaster to Bradford Interchange. I would doubt the platforms @ Bradford Interchange are long enough for a IC225 or Pendolino set?

How about a Doncaster-Bradford Interchange-Leeds-Doncaster service using electrified Hambleton West-South Junction?
As I recall the platforms at Bradford Inter change can accomodate 36 slu plus a Southern Steam engine as the train engine and a class 60 on the buffers.
In all my time in and around Bradford Interchange, I have not seen any frieght go through Halifax.
HM took over all freight workings from Holbeck in the early part of the 1990's.
It is only recently that trains ran from Halifax to Huddersfield via Bradley Wood Junction, onto the LNW Jct at Bradley.
The steam engine I refer to was the Hogwarts Express from Man Picc to York NRM, with herself on the train.
To avoid the crowds, JK got off at Church Fenton, and went by car to York.
THe Holbeck trip workings were K60/1/2/3/4/5.
As for the junction kept open for 1 train, you have to understand it was under BR, who just loved to play underhand tricks with whole swaves of brand new railway. EG shut it down.
 

185

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During the Leeds 1st project in 2000, wasn't there a temporary station on the curve?
 

Welshman

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During the Leeds 1st project in 2000, wasn't there a temporary station on the curve?
No - that was the curve round from Holbeck to Engine Shed Junction [the ex-Midland spur avoiding Leeds for Sheffield-Skipton traffic].
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is only recently that trains ran from Halifax to Huddersfield via Bradley Wood Junction, onto the LNW Jct at Bradley.

With respect - only recently have trains been re-introduced! Up until the late 1960s, there was a regular service of steam and then dmus from Bradford Exchange, Halifax, Huddersfield to Penistone [& Clayton West], using this link.
There was even a named train - The South Yorkshireman - from Bradford Exchange [departing 10am], to London Marylebone [returning 4.50pm], which went this way.
In those days the link was double-tracked throughout, with double-track junctions at Bradley and Bradley Wood.
 
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9K43

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No - that was the curve round from Holbeck to Engine Shed Junction [the ex-Midland spur avoiding Leeds for Sheffield-Skipton traffic].
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



With respect - only recently have trains been re-introduced! Up until the late 1960s, there was a regular service of steam and then dmus from Bradford Exchange, Halifax, Huddersfield to Penistone [& Clayton West], using this link.
There was even a named train - The South Yorkshireman - from Bradford Exchange [departing 10am], to London Marylebone [returning 4.50pm], which went this way.
In those days the link was double-tracked throughout, with double-track junctions at Bradley and Bradley Wood.
HM was involved in the Leeds First ballast trains, we had a weeks work signing on at 23:00hrs to be the site trainman at Leeds.
The car park was just opposite the wooden new station on the chord from Whitehall to Engine Shed Junction.
We also re connected the Bradley Curve .
In this time it was the norm to work as many as 30 Ballast turns on Saturdays Night/Sundays in a year. This would entail having route knowledge all over the the spot to cope with the demands of the engineering trains that were out every weekend, and spot stone drops on nights during the week.
 

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As I recall the platforms at Bradford Inter change can accomodate 36 slu plus a Southern Steam engine as the train engine and a class 60 on the buffers.
In all my time in and around Bradford Interchange, I have not seen any frieght go through Halifax.
HM took over all freight workings from Holbeck in the early part of the 1990's.
It is only recently that trains ran from Halifax to Huddersfield via Bradley Wood Junction, onto the LNW Jct at Bradley.
The steam engine I refer to was the Hogwarts Express from Man Picc to York NRM, with herself on the train.
To avoid the crowds, JK got off at Church Fenton, and went by car to York.
THe Holbeck trip workings were K60/1/2/3/4/5.
As for the junction kept open for 1 train, you have to understand it was under BR, who just loved to play underhand tricks with whole swaves of brand new railway. EG shut it down.
When planning the renewal work on the bank from Bradford to Bowling tunnel around 1995 the Run round available at B Interchange was the equivalent of loco plus 8 coaches or approx 23 SLU plus loco and if that did not catch you out the haulage limit of 650 tonnes would.
36 may be available in the other Bradford station certainly not at Interchange.
 

9K43

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When planning the renewal work on the bank from Bradford to Bowling tunnel around 1995 the Run round available at B Interchange was the equivalent of loco plus 8 coaches or approx 23 SLU plus loco and if that did not catch you out the haulage limit of 650 tonnes would.
36 may be available in the other Bradford station certainly not at Interchange.
A MK1 coach would on average weigh in at 33 tons , with a length of 3 slus, a set of 10 coaches would have a length of 30 slu's.with a trailing weight of 330 tons. and would not need to RR at Interchange as it was T and T.
The 60 dragged the steamer from Piccadilly into the road next to the Supervisors office.
The 60 was detached on the buffers, and when the steamer tried to get out of the platform, it stalled with 3 coaches off the end of the platform
As a result, The train set back onto the cass 60 on the buffers.
I attached the engine in the rear of the train and it it banked the steamer up the hill.
I have RR a train at Bradford Inter from the Halifax direction using the platform on the extreme left of the station.
There was a longish distance between the Traps to be in clear of the point ends to be able to operate the GF.
Once released the loco went up towards to Signal Box to Xover onto the road where the trucks were stood.
The ground frame was dificult to operate as you could not get the release from the Box.
Once this 60 was attached the whole train had no problem getting up the hill and making the left turn towards Leeds.
The 60 was booked to travel in the path of the steamer, but I attched it to the rear of the train, cos I did not fancy messing about with this train on the main line, should it run out of puff again.
On reaching York the loco dragged the train into Holgate then upto YYardNorth, bhind the sub into the NRM.
At this point I cannot recall the LL for the GF road at Bradford interchange.
If anyone wants to have a full report on this job just say so.

I was site trainman many times on the work at Bowling tunnel going right through to Halifax .
In fact Bowling Tunnel had all the manhole covers removed and on of the trainmen fell down it and hurt his legs.
This was always the case in tunnels.
As a result he was paid £3000 for his trouble.
If I saw one manhole cover missing, I would not enter that tunnel, as if one manhole cover is missing how many more are.
THe company has to supply me with a safe working environement on work sites, I just do not like hosptal food.
 
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As I recall the platforms at Bradford Inter change can accomodate 36 slu plus a Southern Steam engine as the train engine and a class 60 on the buffers.
In all my time in and around Bradford Interchange, I have not seen any frieght go through Halifax.
HM took over all freight workings from Holbeck in the early part of the 1990's.
It is only recently that trains ran from Halifax to Huddersfield via Bradley Wood Junction, onto the LNW Jct at Bradley.
The steam engine I refer to was the Hogwarts Express from Man Picc to York NRM, with herself on the train.
To avoid the crowds, JK got off at Church Fenton, and went by car to York.
THe Holbeck trip workings were K60/1/2/3/4/5.
As for the junction kept open for 1 train, you have to understand it was under BR, who just loved to play underhand tricks with whole swaves of brand new railway. EG shut it down.
Speaking of freight through Halifax, did the Rowntrees (as was) factory not generate railfreight?
 

Welshman

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Speaking of freight through Halifax, did the Rowntrees (as was) factory not generate railfreight?
I don't remember Rowntrees [or Mackintosh's as it was previously], ever being rail-connected, as it is on a lower level, and I think all its produce was sent by road.
The only food-carrying van I remember being sent by rail was the Palethorpe's sausage van, attached to the 3.53pm Halifax to Stockport Edgeley.

There used to be carpets from Crossley's, but I think only one vanload at a time, attached to another train.

There must have been other freight at some time, as there were goods yards at Halifax [on the site now occupied by "Eureka!"] but I don't remember any in the 1960's, when I used to know the station well, when it still had six platforms, and before it's rationalisation.
 

Masboroughlad

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I don't remember Rowntrees [or Mackintosh's as it was previously], ever being rail-connected, as it is on a lower level, and I think all its produce was sent by road.
The only food-carrying van I remember being sent by rail was the Palethorpe's sausage van, attached to the 3.53pm Halifax to Stockport Edgeley.
There must have been some freight at some time, as there were goods yards at Halifax [on the site now occupied by "Eureka!"] but I don't remember any in the 1960's, when I used to know the station well, when it still had six platforms before it's rationalisation.
Crikey, did Halifax have 6 platforms? Did it have lines to other places that are now closed or was it just much busier on current lines with more services?
 
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I don't remember Rowntrees [or Mackintosh's as it was previously], ever being rail-connected, as it is on a lower level, and I think all its produce was sent by road.
The only food-carrying van I remember being sent by rail was the Palethorpe's sausage van, attached to the 3.53pm Halifax to Stockport Edgeley.

There used to be carpets from Crossley's, but I think only one vanload at a time, attached to another train.

There must have been other freight at some time, as there were goods yards at Halifax [on the site now occupied by "Eureka!"] but I don't remember any in the 1960's, when I used to know the station well, when it still had six platforms, and before it's rationalisation.
Thanks for the information. Interesting:D.
 

Welshman

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Crikey, did Halifax have 6 platforms? Did it have lines to other places that are now closed or was it just much busier on current lines with more services?
Halifax used to be a joint station - L & Y and GN.

I remember it having 3 island platforms. The most eastern one [nearest Nestle], platforms 1 and 2, are the ones now remaining, and these used to be used for traffic going up to Manchester; the middle one [platforms 3 and 4] was the widest and had most of the station buildings on it [part of these buildings are now used by Eureka!], and the one nearest Horton St and the Goods yards - platforms 5 & 6, has now been totally demolished.

There are more trains using the remaining island platform today, whereas in the past, a greater variety of destinations was served, but more infrequently. For example, there was an hourly ex L&Y service to Manchester/Liverpool and Leeds/Bradford and an [approximately] hourly service to Huddersfield and Penistone. These used platforms 1-4. Platforms 5 & 6 were used by the GN services to Bradford via Queensbury, which forked-left just out of the station to go out via North Bridge, which had its own station at one time.

At one stage, there were even services to three different London terminii - King's Cross, Marylebone and St Pancras, but just one per day!
 

9K43

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On Ballast turns at Halifax Station, we had to take the train from Halifax down onto the L and y and travel up to Hebden Bridge Station to RR the train.
At Heben we left the trucks in the station, and the loco went upto Eastwood LMR to crossvoer from the up to the down.
Back to Hebden to x over back onto your train. The crossover is situated about 100 yards towards Hemmeroid Junction.
Then back to the Mill via Greetland and Elland back through mirfield.
The only fieght I have seen was the very occasional Taink train into a ORT at Greetland.
The truck for this were TTA's 50 tonners from Immingham.
There was a choclate set up at Farnley Junction at Leeds, but the spur was taken out before I started.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I recall the Palethorpes Van in the bay platform at Stockport with a couple of carriages and a 2/6/4 tank on it.
We got off at Huddersfield to wait for the following TransPennine set for Dewsbury.
This was 1964.
 

Old Yard Dog

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It currently takes well over 40 minutes to do the 14 miles from Bradford to Wakefield whichever route you take. It also takes forever to get to Sheffield and the Midlands and it takes Grand Central 100 mins to get to Doncaster.

Bradford is the 10th biggest city in the country and is entitled to decent inter-city services.

The trouble with HS2 and all the latest upgrade plans is that the upgrades benefit those lucky cities which already have good high(ish) speed services.

The money would be better spent on providing decent fast connections between the Bradfords and the Halifaxs and the Blackburns and the Burnleys and the Barnsleys and the Sunderlands with the ECML, WCML and Cross Country.
 
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