Would re-introducing the POL TAX be a fairer way of collecting local taxes?

[ainsworth74]

If you are against regressive taxation in principle does that extend to the excise duty on tobacco products ?

Poor people who represent the greatest number of smokers are effectively "coughing up" a lot more than the wealthy for a pack of tabs.

Though unlike Council Tax (or Poll Tax) and many of the things covered by VAT tobacco products aren't a necessity they are very much a luxury. If you wish to pay the extortionate excise duty for your cigarettes that's fine but you don't have to do so.

Surely the TV Licence is a "flat rate charge" regardless of income - are you against that ?

I think the whole TV Licence system needs reforming to be quite honest just as the way that we fund Local Authorities needs reforming!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Showing inclusive prices would require a separate price file for each county to distribute to your point of sale systems. Doable but it is an additional admin that costs money and that will end up on prices. Then you get to mail order and on-line. Where is the sales tax paid? The warehouse location, the office location that takes the order, the delivery address or the billing address? (why should I pay a different sales tax if my order delivered to the office?) It is rather a bar to entry by small businesses if you need to keep up with every local authority's tax rates.

I didn't propose different rates of sales tax by area. Your reply is not relevant to sales tax vs. VAT, it's relevant to charging either sales tax or VAT (doesn't matter which) at differing rates per location.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are against regressive taxation in principle does that extend to the excise duty on tobacco products ?

Vice taxes are a bit different. They are charged with a view to attempting to prevent the thing that is being taxed, and so I have less of an issue with that.

 

[underbank]

Though unlike Council Tax (or Poll Tax) and many of the things covered by VAT tobacco products aren't a necessity they are very much a luxury. If you wish to pay the extortionate excise duty for your cigarettes that's fine but you don't have to do so.

Surely the same applies with a lot of things that have VAT charged? Hence why some things are zero rated (food & books) and reduced rated (power) or exempt (rent and healthcare).

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you are against regressive taxation in principle does that extend to the excise duty on tobacco products ?

Poor people who represent the greatest number of smokers are effectively "coughing up" a lot more than the wealthy for a pack of tabs.

Surely the TV Licence is a "flat rate charge" regardless of income - are you against that ?

I am very much against the TV licence as I don't think non-payment of a BBC subscription should be a criminal offence. I think it should be on a Sky model: no payment, no access.

As for tobacco taxes (and alcohol) it's a tougher one as the aim of a vice tax is to make the thing you're taxing unaffordable. But I do have issues with the fact the vice taxes only make it unaffordable for the plebs. Truthfully, I'm not sure what the solution there is.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely the same applies with a lot of things that have VAT charged? Hence why some things are zero rated (food & books) and reduced rated (power)

Power is only reduced rate because the Tories under John Major lost a parliamentary vote. They wanted it to be full whack. They got 5% through- before Major it was zero rated and could have stayed that way under EU law- to their shame. That tax grab sums the Tories up perfectly.

VAT is charged on luxuries like, er, clothes and shoes. In theory a luxury, of sorts, but try walking past a school with no clothes on! Not to mention other luxuries like tampons and sanitary towels, and incontinence nappies* (*but you can fill in a form to get the VAT back).

 

[underbank]

Vice taxes are a bit different. They are charged with a view to attempting to prevent the thing that is being taxed, and so I have less of an issue with that.

But if they're too high, you end up with people buying them on the black market which means the Treasury loses out on VAT and income tax too (as the criminals selling duty free fags and booze won't be declaring their profits for other taxes either). You also end up with people buying abroad where duties are lower, again meaning the UK gets no duty at all.

ALL taxes need to be set at a level where it's not worth trying to avoid/evade them. Getting 20% income tax or VAT from someone is better than getting nothing from them because you've set the rate too high they're incentivised to avoid/evade it.