would the reopening of the Leamside Line make journeys quicker and more direct between Newcastle and Middlesbrough?

[geordieblue]

Newcastle to Middlesbrough times would be improved drastically if they built a new line direct from Seaton Carew to Middlesbrough station from the East. That way GC London to Sunderland trains could go via Middlesbrough and TPE and the proposed LNER Middlesbrough services could continue to Sunderland. Assuming Sunderland station gets a third platform.

This should really be complemented by a via Stillington & Durham service. Hopefully with HS2 they will better spread out ECML fast services to allow local services to fit in.

Regarding re-opening Leamside, I'd say it has use in providing a Durham by-pass for HS2 services. And perhaps a metro service for the Northern part.

There's quite a few things that the Leamside can do in tandem - heavy rail and HSR, infrequent heavy rail and Metro, etc. What it can't do is Metro and HSR. The combination of HS2 trains and 90km/h light rail units is not a pretty one, with pretty massive delays for either. Engineering the line to be suitable for high speed is also massive overkill if the bulk of its use is Metro. I've also seen it said that the Leamside isn't any faster than Durham because of its track speeds (and, I guess, the section through Pelaw) - ideally you would combine the straightish southern bit of the Leamside with the straightish northern bit of the ECML after Chester-le-Street, but this would mean destroying half of Washington, which sort of eliminates the concept behind reopening Leamside anyway.

 

[Swanny200]

Yes you’re right. Looking again, the midpoint is roughly where the line passes the Queen Alexandra Bridge. Still though, it is 1 mile to the midpoint from Sunderland, which on an island platform gives a reasonable 10 tph in any direction. It’s not far enough out for a passenger stood waiting at Sunderland or Park Lane to not board the train via Washington. If a metro train via Washington turned up first, the train would probably be past Pallion by the time the metro via Boldon would have turned up.

It makes me wonder whether Metro would have it as a North Loop and South Loop, Airport to Pelaw round the south loop via Washington and Sunderland with South Shields to St James round the North loop via Whitley Bay

 

[Purple Orange]

It makes me wonder whether Metro would have it as a North Loop and South Loop, Airport to Pelaw round the south loop via Washington and Sunderland with South Shields to St James round the North loop via Whitley Bay

Yeah it could be, because you’d have 10 tph running from the Airport to Pelaw, where they then split with 5 tph running on a clock-wise and anti-clockwise route. Due to negligible journey times, it gives several stations in Sunderland 10 tph to Newcastle at roughly similar journey times.

 

[Swanny200]

It has always made me wonder if that has been the potential all along to run the two loops, for all the talk of extension to the Metrocentre and running under the Tyne towards Benwell, with an infinite budget, even then would it be feaseable? The Leamside line was until a few years ago, untouched, I have wanted to walk it for years, but since the fences have gone up at the Wardley end, I have been apprehensive about doing so, is there still some infrastructure along the stretch to Washington?

In comparison to other schemes, the layout hasn't been built on in any major way so there should be no major deviation, from what I can see on Google Maps, the only part that should it be used for a Metro loop to South Hylton that would need some thinking about is the stretch from the viaduct to South Hylton.

 

[EastisECML]

There's quite a few things that the Leamside can do in tandem - heavy rail and HSR, infrequent heavy rail and Metro, etc. What it can't do is Metro and HSR. The combination of HS2 trains and 90km/h light rail units is not a pretty one, with pretty massive delays for either. Engineering the line to be suitable for high speed is also massive overkill if the bulk of its use is Metro. I've also seen it said that the Leamside isn't any faster than Durham because of its track speeds (and, I guess, the section through Pelaw) - ideally you would combine the straightish southern bit of the Leamside with the straightish northern bit of the ECML after Chester-le-Street, but this would mean destroying half of Washington, which sort of eliminates the concept behind reopening Leamside anyway.

I didn't clarify properpy, that wasn't what I was suggesting. It was for the line to be reopened as two different routes. The first one being a by-pass of Durham from Ferryhill to about Chester-le-Street for high speed services. And if required the line from Pelaw to Washington and on to South Hylton can be reopened for metro services. A Durham bypass could feasibly continue past Chester-le-Street following the A1(M) and descend into a tunnel to rejoin the ECML just past the greyhound stadium. This wouldn't trouble Washington at all. But I'd say the whole case for reopening Leamside is to serve Washington and Houghton-le-Spring.

 

[geordieblue]

I didn't clarify properpy, that wasn't what I was suggesting. It was for the line to be reopened as two different routes. The first one being a by-pass of Durham from Ferryhill to about Chester-le-Street for high speed services. And if required the line from Pelaw to Washington and on to South Hylton can be reopened for metro services. A Durham bypass could feasibly continue past Chester-le-Street following the A1(M) and descend into a tunnel to rejoin the ECML just past the greyhound stadium. This wouldn't trouble Washington at all. But I'd say the whole case for reopening Leamside is to serve Washington and Houghton-le-Spring.

There's no connection between Chester-le-Street and the Leamside though, so you have to build a totally new high-speed line, probably curving quite sharply, over the A1 and the River Wear for a distance of 2-3km. At that point you might as well build a completely new tunnel and do it properly, because the Leamside isn't even all that straight. I do agree with your last sentence though - the Leamside is a case where it's probably best served with the Metro and a freight service or two.

 

[Swanny200]

There's no connection between Chester-le-Street and the Leamside though, so you have to build a totally new high-speed line, probably curving quite sharply, over the A1 and the River Wear for a distance of 2-3km. At that point you might as well build a completely new tunnel and do it properly, because the Leamside isn't even all that straight. I do agree with your last sentence though - the Leamside is a case where it's probably best served with the Metro and a freight service or two.

You could very easily use it as another mixed use Metro/Freight line, in terms of Freight, there are a few distribution companies at Follingsby Park and a big Asda Distribution hub at the bottom end of Washington, depends if the market for freight would be there though.

 

[geordieblue]

You could very easily use it as another mixed use Metro/Freight line, in terms of Freight, there are a few distribution companies at Follingsby Park and a big Asda Distribution hub at the bottom end of Washington, depends if the market for freight would be there though.

I think generally the freight idea is to get freight trains off the ECML. There's probably potential for some freight from the line itself - obviously Nissan are nearby and the new manufacturing park could provide opportunities as well.

 

[EastisECML]

There's no connection between Chester-le-Street and the Leamside though, so you have to build a totally new high-speed line, probably curving quite sharply, over the A1 and the River Wear for a distance of 2-3km. At that point you might as well build a completely new tunnel and do it properly, because the Leamside isn't even all that straight. I do agree with your last sentence though - the Leamside is a case where it's probably best served with the Metro and a freight service or two.

It wouldn't be that much of a curve if a connection back to the ECML diverged from the Leamside line where it actually passes the village of Leamside to follow the A1(M).

I wonder if there is any potential for some kind of freight yard/hub on the Leamside line to replace Tyne yard and link to various places in Washington, Nissan, Port of Tyne, etc?

 

[Swanny200]

It wouldn't be that much of a curve if a connection back to the ECML diverged from the Leamside line where it actually passes the village of Leamside to follow the A1(M).

I wonder if there is any potential for some kind of freight yard/hub on the Leamside line to replace Tyne yard and link to various places in Washington, Nissan, Port of Tyne, etc?

Plenty of space up by Wardley to create a hub, also on the opposite part of the line across from Follingsby Park, but then you have hit the nail on the head with Nissan and the various automotive concerns like Vantec and the likes all in that same area.

 

[Poolie]

Newcastle to Middlesbrough times would be improved drastically if they built a new line direct from Seaton Carew to Middlesbrough station from the East. That way GC London to Sunderland trains could go via Middlesbrough and TPE and the proposed LNER Middlesbrough services could continue to Sunderland. Assuming Sunderland station gets a third platform.

Much as I would love to see this, are you suggesting a line across the barren wastes of Seal Sands and and a new bridge/crossing over the Tees?

 

[EastisECML]

Yeah.

 

[HST43257]

Yeah.

Would rather have the current infrastructure (no cash spent), a reversal and +10 mins on the journey time.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Newcastle to Middlesbrough times would be improved drastically if they built a new line direct from Seaton Carew to Middlesbrough station from the East.

Much as I would love to see this, are you suggesting a line across the barren wastes of Seal Sands and and a new bridge/crossing over the Tees?

Back in the early 70's there was a proposal to build a road tunnel under the Tees, it wasn't long after the formation of Teesside as a county. The idea was for it to be built just slightly east of where the Riverside stadium is now(cargo fleet area) to link to the Trunk road at Cargo fleet Lane* and link to the roundabout near Seal Sands (A1185/Seaton Carew road). The A1185 would have become dual carriageway all the way to Wolviston & would have been a main route between the major ICI sites of the time (Wilton, Billingham & North Tees) and the A19. I'm sure you've noticed that the A1185 road bridge that crosses the railway line was built with passive provision for the road to be duelled.
* the idea was eventually dropped in favour of extending the A66 from the A19/Newport bridge roundabout to Grangetown/ICI Westgate (and right through the centre of Middlesbrough).
Now, if the hoped for funding, rumoured to be £600 million plus, that they are planning to spend adding more capacity to the A19 flyover was diverted towards a rail tunnel in a similar location to the proposed road tunnel.
A Seaton Carew to Middlesbrough rail line would be a game changer as far as connecting areas with-in the Tees Valley. A 15-20 min rail journey time saving between Middlesbrough, Hartlepool & Sunderland/Newcastle would remove a lot of car journeys from the A19.

Although I still think, a re-opened Leamside would provide greater benefits to more areas.

 

[tavistock]

It would seem that even a partial reopening of the line, at the Northern end, would be beneficial inasmuch as it would bring the metro to Washington and complete the Southern loop via South Hylton. Worth it IMO.

 

[Purple Orange]

It would seem that even a partial reopening of the line, at the Northern end, would be beneficial inasmuch as it would bring the metro to Washington and complete the Southern loop via South Hylton. Worth it IMO.

Definitely and as the distance via Washington or via Boldon is roughly the same to Newcastle, it would give Sunderland stations close to the town centre a 10 tph service.

 

[tavistock]

Definitely and as the distance via Washington or via Boldon is roughly the same to Newcastle, it would give Sunderland stations close to the town centre a 10 tph service.

The problem is that all that happens is talk talk talk. We will probably still be in the same situation in ten years' time. Washington/Sunderland deserves better.

 

[Purple Orange]

The problem is that all that happens is talk talk talk. We will probably still be in the same situation in ten years' time. Washington/Sunderland deserves better.

Quite probably. Tyne & Wear needs to get a funding mechanism like Greater Manchester for line expansions and converting ex-heavy rail lines.

 

[MonsooN]

Sorry for the long delay in my reply but I was walking along the Leamside Line the other day and was thinking about how there is now a huge Amazon distribution depot at Bowbutn, right near where the Leamside Line joins the mainline at Tursdale. The site is literally right next to the track. Amazon are also building another huge depot at Follingsby in Gateshead, which is also right next to where the Leamside line meets the Durham Coast Line.

Do you think this is a coincidence or do you think Amazon may have chosen these locations due to their proximity to the rail infrastructure?

 

[Purple Orange]

Sorry for the long delay in my reply but I was walking along the Leamside Line the other day and was thinking about how there is now a huge Amazon distribution depot at Bowbutn, right near where the Leamside Line joins the mainline at Tursdale. The site is literally right next to the track. Amazon are also building another huge depot at Follingsby in Gateshead, which is also right next to where the Leamside line meets the Durham Coast Line.

Do you think this is a coincidence or do you think Amazon may have chosen these locations due to their proximity to the rail infrastructure?

I suspect the proximity to the motorway network is the reasoning behind Amazon’s decision and (in the case of Follingsby) being very close to the Felling Bypass and the A194M, giving easy access for most people in Tyne & Wear as a source of employment. East-West you have Sunderland to Newcastle & Gateshead, and North-South you have North & South Tyneside down to Washington, each area being easily accessible.