Would this be classed as stopping short ?

[Scooby]

Tonight I've made a booking for an Advanced Ticket from Kendal to 'Manchester Stations' as I'm not sure if Deansgate, Oxford Road or PIcadilly would best fit my circumstances (a friend is collecting me in Manchester), however, when the confirmation email has come through, the journey destination is Manchester Picadilly ( When I checked the fares, all 3 stations were identically priced).

Does anyone know if I'd get in bother for getting off at Deansgate, rather than staying on to Picadilly ?

p.s. when the ticket comes, it may say Manchester Stations and I've wasted the time of you good people

 

[YorkshireRider]

Is Deansgate classed as a Manchester stn? Might be worth buying a Man Picc to Deansgate ticket from Kendal just in case

 

[craigwilson]

Is Deansgate classed as a Manchester stn? Might be worth buying a Man Picc to Deansgate ticket from Kendal just in case

Yes, Deansgate, Oxford Road, and Piccadilly are the three "Manchester Stations".

Whenever I've bought Advances to Manchester, the ticket generally always says "Manchester Stns", but the reservation - the bit that tells you which train you're booked on - is to a named station. I'd imagine this is the case most of the time.

If your booked itinerary is to Manchester Piccadilly then you must alight there. If I understand your route you're coming into Manchester on a Transpenine Express service via Deansgate? In which case, yes it would be stopping short, which is not allowed. So you'll need the extra ticket and to go via Manchester Picc.

 

[MCR247]

Stopping short for me is always something that is grey area for me as to whether it could be enforceable, but I really can't imagine this being enforcable. You have bought & paid for a ticket to Manchester Stations, and you are getting off at what is (officially, not just a station in Manchester) a Manchester station

 

[snail]

Not that it's relevant here but Victoria is also in the Manchester Stns group.

If you have an advance I presume it's with TPE so your booked train may not stop at Deansgate. Whatever your reservation says, it's very unlikely anyone will ask for it once you have left the train.

 

[Nym]

If you're coming from Kendal the chances are it will not stop at Deansgate unless you're changing at Preston as well...

Everything (most services) from TPE off Lancaster do not call at Deansgate, except early morning and late evening services interworking with Blackpool North services.

Isn't a very long walk from Oxford Road though.

 

[Pen Mill]

If you're coming from Kendal the chances are it will not stop at Deansgate unless you're changing at Preston as well...

Everything (most services) from TPE off Lancaster do not call at Deansgate, except early morning and late evening services interworking with Blackpool North services.

Isn't a very long walk from Oxford Road though.

This is all very ironic to me , ie : being penalised for stopping short and yet freeing up a seat that has already earned revenue. I'm sure the rules and regulators know what they're saying , I'm not.

Surely it's in every TOC's interest if every advance passenger gets off early ?
juist me then ?

 

[Nym]

Not really on this route, these services pick up very very few passengers at Oxford Road and Piccadilly.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This is all very ironic to me , ie : being penalised for stopping short and yet freeing up a seat that has already earned revenue. I'm sure the rules and regulators know what they're saying , I'm not.

Surely it's in every TOC's interest if every advance passenger gets off early ?
juist me then ?

The notion of someone getting a seat as you got off early is inconsequential as they could not have sold an Advance fare for it and any passenger using the service would have a ticket and be unaware of your travel plans. In addition, by getting off early you are liable to pay an extra fare.

If the reservation is to Oxford Road, I believe there is an easement to travel back to Deansgate and provided it is a non-reservable service is used it would be legitimate.

 

[34D]

Will the ticket be 'tpe only' or 'tpe and connexions'?

If the latter, and assuming you don't double back, then (in my opinion) going picc-deansgate would be okay. If tpe only then no validity at all on northern.

 

[Bakerbloke]

I think for any Manchester Stns ticket you are perfectly entitled to stop at any of them regardless of your booked destination. You would only be stopping short if it were before any of these - eg Salford Crescent.

 

[Pen Mill]

In addition, by getting off early you are liable to pay an extra fare.

Yes, I understand that but there is absolutely no logic in that rule as the TOC does not suffer any loss .

The first rule of any financial claim is that loss must have been suffered , the company has been paid to the furthest point so there is no loss....
... gets down off high horse

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There is logic in the rule!

Firstly, the era of fares being priced by distance is in the distant past. Now, fares are priced by a combination of inherited conditions (including 'regulated fares'), revenue generation and market forces. Competition between Operators has driven some prices down, and, at the same time, and in order to maintain the prices within a 'fares basket' within the permitted annual inflationary margin, causes other fares to rise.
Now I will agree that the range of fares currently available appear irrational, but I hope you'll agree that generating revenue and responding to market forces are logical pressures on the dynamics of fare pricing.

The interesting one is the Advance Fare. Operators can introduce these at as low a price as they wish, for a variety of purposes: to attract passengers onto otherwise lightly loaded services, to provide attractive headline prices for promotional purposes, to attract passenger to travel by rail rather than other modes. These are, as a consequence, going to be cheaper than other ticket types and are very specific contracts for specified point to point journeys on specific trains. Its only 'logical' if these special Contracts to fill specific seats on certain legs of a longer journey are tied to just that: from point to point on the specified train only.

Now, turning to stopping short on an Advance in Manchester, I refer the OP to my answer to an identical question raised the day previously, here : Fares advice Grimsby - Newcastle.
My post is number 6. If the passenger also bought a ticket from the end of the Contracted journey back to the point where (s)he wanted to alight early (Picadilly to Deansgate) then although there is no 'rule' that permits stopping short with such an additional ticket, I believe that any challenge at Deansgate would not, and could not, be pursued.

 

[Pen Mill]

There is logic in the rule!

Firstly, the era of fares being priced by distance is in the distant past. Now, fares are priced by a combination of inherited conditions (including 'regulated fares'), revenue generation and market forces. Competition between Operators has driven some prices down, and, at the same time, and in order to maintain the prices within a 'fares basket' within the permitted annual inflationary margin, causes other fares to rise.
Now I will agree that the range of fares currently available appear irrational, but I hope you'll agree that generating revenue and responding to market forces are logical pressures on the dynamics of fare pricing.

The interesting one is the Advance Fare. Operators can introduce these at as low a price as they wish, for a variety of purposes: to attract passengers onto otherwise lightly loaded services, to provide attractive headline prices for promotional purposes, to attract passenger to travel by rail rather than other modes. These are, as a consequence, going to be cheaper than other ticket types and are very specific contracts for specified point to point journeys on specific trains. Its only 'logical' if these special Contracts to fill specific seats on certain legs of a longer journey are tied to just that: from point to point on the specified train only.

We won't agree on this issue because there is no financial loss , there is an empty seat paid for, for however short a journey so the TOC could actually benefit if only from an image point of view.
I hope I don't get into a situation where I have to challenge this t&c

 

[island]

There is a financial loss, because the fare to the nearer point might have been higher, and if the customer had purchased that fare, the TOC would have made more money!

 

[snail]

We won't agree on this issue because there is no financial loss , there is an empty seat paid for, for however short a journey so the TOC could actually benefit if only from an image point of view.
I hope I don't get into a situation where I have to challenge this t&c

There can be a financial loss in stopping short on Advance tickets because you are denying the TOC the correct combination of fares for journeys between your ticketed stations. They may price longer flows more competitively (through the use of a limited number of Advance fares), knowing that they will generate as much if not more income from short, full-fare, journeys.

 

[Greenback]

We won't agree on this issue because there is no financial loss , there is an empty seat paid for, for however short a journey so the TOC could actually benefit if only from an image point of view.
I hope I don't get into a situation where I have to challenge this t&c

You may not agree, but that doesn't mean that your view is correct!

 

[Scooby]

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post on this thread, to make things easier, I'd like to clarify a few points.
it is a TPE service and id does stop at Manchester Deansgate, Manchester Oxford Road and Manchester Picadilly.
Deansgate, Oxford Road & Picadilly all seem to be in the Manchester stations group
I booked a ticket to Manchester Stations, but the confirmation came back as Manchester Picadilly.
My reservation is all the way through to Picadilly.
The fare is the same to all three stations, on the same train.

My mate is collecting me in his car and we were just looking for a convienient station to do this from - hence, Manchester Stations would give us some extra flexibility.

In my mind, when the ticket comes, if it says Man Stations I'll pick the handiest one for me and use that one, if it say MAN PIC I'll stay to the end and get off there. Its not a major issue for me, but it would be a shame if someone else who wasn't as flexible came amiss over a fairly minor issue.

 

[Nym]

Oxford Road or Piccadilly are easier to pick up from than Deansgate anyway to be honest, what direction will he be coming from to pick you up?

There are some handy areas you can wait to pick someone up at either station.

 

[Deerfold]

What station did you request when booking?

If you put in Deansgate and the booking came up as "Manchester Stations" only showing as "Manchester Piccadilly" once you'd paid it may be worth asking the operator if you can get off at the station you requested.

 

[sarniasiren]

We went to the Olympics two weeks ago and asked for returns to Deansgate coming back the next day. The ticket clerk at the station sold me tickets for Manchester Airport as it was cheaper. I wondered afterwards if it may cause a problem Wasn't an issue as no ticket checks off the train. As it happened the Deansgate trains were delayed so got off at Salford Central.

 

[yorkie]

As the train calls at Deansgate, which is one of the stations that compromises the destination printed on the ticket, I see no issue alighting there. Alighting at Manchester Stns on a ticket to Manchester Stns is not finishing short IMO.

We went to the Olympics two weeks ago and asked for returns to Deansgate coming back the next day. The ticket clerk at the station sold me tickets for Manchester Airport as it was cheaper. I wondered afterwards if it may cause a problem Wasn't an issue as no ticket checks off the train. As it happened the Deansgate trains were delayed so got off at Salford Central.

That is good customer service however some managers do not like clerks (or guards) doing this, so I removed the name of the station and replaced it with 'the station' - hope that's okay. Sometimes buying to Wilmslow can be cheaper still in certain circumstances.

It's possible that someone asking for a York to Weeton (only valid via Harrogate) ticket could be sold a York to Horsforth (via Harrogate) ticket because it's cheaper, for example. I would welcome that, but it's best to keep the identity of these excellent staff quiet in case vexatious managers are unhappy about it. These anomalies exist all over the country and are growing all the time. Sadly the TOCs usually increase the lower priced tickets in order to remove the anomaly, rather than the other way round, but new anomalies will take their place (I use Weeton/Horsforth as an example as it is clear that, in this particular case, the shorter distance ticket is overpriced).

Starting/finishing short is generally absolutely fine, but not on Advance tickets.

 

[Scooby]

Oxford Road or Piccadilly are easier to pick up from than Deansgate anyway to be honest, what direction will he be coming from to pick you up?

There are some handy areas you can wait to pick someone up at either station.

My mates coming from Yorkshireland, via the M62, so eithe of Oxford Road or Picadilly would be fine - does either have a short term parking/passenger pickup area ?

 

[Nym]

Piccadilly has a pick up area, and would be preferable to Oxford Road if coming from the M62 by any of the recommended routes, including lapping the M60 and coming down the A57(M).

If he comes in via Ashton Old Road then come up the A6 London Road he'll need to do a small lap round, or alternatively coming in via Ashton Old Road will land you on Fairfield Street without using the Manchester/Salford IRR (Great Ancoats Street and Mancunian Way) the approved pickup point is in the Fairfeild Street Short Stay car park, but if you want to be avoiding using that, then parking/stopping on street around the station areas is easily possible, if you know where you're going.

Examples of easy to find places include:

Travis Street, Store Street and Boad Street, the "Quickest" of these for you to get to from your arrival platform, Platform 13, will be either;
Store Street (Under the station approach, there is metered on street parking but you can sit and wait without too much hassle)
Baring St / Travis Street, be aware this is usually populated by taxis queuing so I wouldn't personally recommend it.
Or anywhere round the Eastern end of Granby Row (This would be accessed from the A6 London Road Northbound by turning left immediately before a the set of traffic lights at London Road / Fairfeild Street) and is easy to access, as easy as Store Street for both vehicle and pedestrian, if using this area, what I would personally recommend, exit Piccadilly Station from the Fairfeild Street Entrance (Under the station, infront of platforms 9/10 there is a stairway through the floor, follow this to the exit (it is signed as such and for Metrolink) exit there, and cross corner to corner for the set of traffic lights, and head between the Best Connection Agency Offices and the Pub that a bus crashed into, down Granby Row, on street parking is available on the left hand side of this road, and like on Store Street, sitting there waiting isn't usually too much of a problem)
If he wants somewhere to legally park and wait for you then either the Short or Long stay car parks at Piccadilly station, or the Charles Street University of Manchester Car Park is recommended for this, I won't provide any further info on this as of yet as it doesn't seem to be preferable.

 

[Scooby]

thank you one and all - you have answered my question (& several others as well !)

The tickets have come in the post today and they are marked as Manchester Stations - so I do have a choice after all !