Wrexham redouble

[merlodlliw]

The Welsh Governement Minister Edwina Hart today confirmed the Wrexham rail redouble is to go ahead.

This is excellent news

The Minister for Transport Edwina Hart this afternoon announced the go ahead of a £44m scheme to improve north south rail journey times, and as part of this was confirmation that the work to increase capacity between Wrexham and Chester will go ahead.

Following the review that has been done the £44m scheme has been agreed with Network Rail and will be delivered by spring 2015.

The revised scheme will involve a significant doubling of the existing single line between Wrexham and Chester and will include other line speed improvements. This will help reduce north south journey times by 16 minutes.

This is all the detail I have at the moment, but I will get you more when I receive it.

a press release is been put out later.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Bob, how long has this matter been in the various stages of consideration that has led to that final decision being made ?

 

[merlodlliw]

Bob, how long has this matter been in the various stages of consideration that has led to that final decision being made ?

Its been going on for since July,when Network Rail said they were ready to start in October this month, The Minister a week later put the project on indefinite hold saying she was reviewing the costings etc,
The pressure has been so intense with letters in the papers keeping it alive,only last week the First Minister was questioned about the redouble in the Senedd,was it funding or what,he by passed the question,Tomorrow sees a meeting in Cardiff of the Wales & Borders franchise committee of AMs and Rugs & members of organisations who would ask deep questions,
Several labour AMs from North Wales have also broken there silence with the Ministers, plus with all other parties asking questions, The first Minister Carwyn Jones also under pressure from his own scrutiny committee about the redouble,as no doubt given a directive to his Minister for Rail in Wales to announce the go ahead before tomorrows open meeting.
Network rail were stung by the Ministers announcement of an indefinite hold especially when they were blamed,
Its been a fight, but we have won.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Great. I wonder what "revised scheme" means...?

 

[anthony263]

Excellent that the go ahead if finally being given

 

[merlodlliw]

Great. I wonder what "revised scheme" means...?

No idea, but it looks like a face saving use of words. It will all come out in the wash, revised could mean the new station at Rossett.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Welsh Assembly Government does not seem to realise that while you dither, as in this case, the costs are increasing.

 

[The Planner]

Revised normally means de-scoped.....

 

[HowardGWR]

Revised normally means de-scoped.....

And what does that mean? If a project has no scope it must be simply scoped by the money already made available (but no more)??

 

[The Planner]

It means that bits of the original plan have probably been taken out.

 

[merlodlliw]

It means that bits of the original plan have probably been taken out.

I am told from reliable sources the redouble plans are the same submitted before the July announcement by NR,any cost saving is not in the Wrexham area now,North West Wales had better watch its back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-24367386

 

[jones_bangor]

Great news, already looking forward to enjoying the benefits of "cutting north-south journey times by 16 minutes", hopefully while I'm travelling on the North-South Express!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I am told from reliable sources the redouble plans are the same submitted before the July announcement by NR,any cost saving is not in the Wrexham area now,North West Wales had better watch its back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-24367386

We're always watching our back where North-east Wales is concerned!! (look what they have done to our Health Service!)

...but it is good news and congratulations on a successful campaign.

 

[Rydon]

Very good news indeed well done

 

[Gareth Marston]

Great news, already looking forward to enjoying the benefits of "cutting north-south journey times by 16 minutes", hopefully while I'm travelling on the North-South Express!

Yes this project will free up a unit for extra Cambrian trains and improve connections at Shrewsbury between Cambrian and Chester, good news for Mid Wales. It's not just about the small north to south market.

 

[Darren R]

The revised scheme will involve a significant doubling of the existing single line

I read that as meaning that only some, not all, of the route is being doubled.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I read that as meaning that only some, not all, of the route is being doubled.

The NR plan that was suppose to start this month only did Saltney Jnc to Rosset, around 7 of the 11 miles.

 

[Darren R]

In that case I withdraw the allegation - I was under the impression that re-doubling throughout was the original proposal. Seven of the 11 miles almost certainly qualifies as being "significant doubling"!

 

[Gareth Marston]

In that case I withdraw the allegation - I was under the impression that re-doubling throughout was the original proposal. Seven of the 11 miles almost certainly qualifies as being "significant doubling"!

Gresford bank and single track bridge over A483 not tackled.

 

[tbtc]

Excellent news - well done to those who've campaigned for some time over this and have held the politicians to account!

Yes this project will free up a unit for extra Cambrian trains and improve connections at Shrewsbury between Cambrian and Chester, good news for Mid Wales. It's not just about the small north to south market.

Agreed - shame everything has to be defined in terms of what market there is for Holyhead to Cardiff, when this scheme will bring about practical benefits too, like open up the scope for Wrexham to finally get a decent service to Chester (and on to Liverpool/ Manchester etc?).

Every extra unit helps - especially since the Cambrian has had all that money spent on the infrastructure without the units being there to help improve the service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Excellent news - well done to those who've campaigned for some time over this and have held the politicians to account!



Agreed - shame everything has to be defined in terms of what market there is for Holyhead to Cardiff, when this scheme will bring about practical benefits too, like open up the scope for Wrexham to finally get a decent service to Chester (and on to Liverpool/ Manchester etc?).

Every extra unit helps - especially since the Cambrian has had all that money spent on the infrastructure without the units being there to help improve the service.

There's another £10k of public money being spent on a survey to investigate the demand for extra services in Mid Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

The NR plan that was suppose to start this month only did Saltney Jnc to Rosset, around 7 of the 11 miles.

Gareth is correct, the redoubling was only from Rossett(to be known as Wrexham North when the station is built) to the main Holyhead/Chester line.
The small part of the single line up Gresford bank & across the single track bridge over the Wrexham expressway to the new Gresford Junction is about 2.5 miles when completed, this 2.5 miles includes extending the double line further North from Wrexham to this newly installed Gresford Junction. Doubling the line from Rossett to Wrexham was never in the plan due to the cost of replacing the bridge over the Wrexham Expressway,which was the cause of the single track to save £450K 20 odd years ago.

This dual track was known as phase two to commence this month by Network Rail following completion of phase one the 90mph relining between Wrexham South & Shrewsbury which is now completed, I understand if the go ahead had been given last July much of the equipment would have moved from phase one to phase two,completion is now due in 2015 election year.
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Great news, already looking forward to enjoying the benefits of "cutting north-south journey times by 16 minutes", hopefully while I'm travelling on the North-South Express!

It will probably be a HST if the rumors are correct that its a done deal,Geralds £3.5M WG refurb and rental of stock runs out early 2015, unless WG comes up with more money to run it as open access, who knows, but I am sure if the current audit is taken into account,Premier Class will go,that is the free meal with a first ticket.

 

[The Planner]

HST? really? seems odd to bring in yet another train type for ATW which sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[merlodlliw]

HST? really? seems odd to bring in yet another train type for ATW which sticks out like a sore thumb.

HSTs are seriously being considered by WG for the Cardiff/Manchesters & Holyhead/Cardiff after electrification in South Wales. This was said by Prof Stuart Cole a transport advisor to WG at a meeting in Newtown last week.Where the HSTs would be serviced is another matter when Swansea HST dept goes.
He also mentioned many 150s will be cascaded from South Wales into the North as well. Much of this in the Wales & Borders franchise thread.

Bob

 

[anthony263]

The only problem I see with ATW using hst's is that they are replacing younger rolling stock (the class 175's) which I believe have really settled down and are not as problematic compared to when they were 1st delivered to First North Western.

The Manchester services are supposed to be continuing beyond Cardiff to Milford Haven which I dont think will be able to justify a 5 carriage HST although I suppose it would help with extra capacity to Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays.

If they want to Use HST's just keep them on the Cardiff - Holyhead route and use the free up class 158/175's to provide extra capacity and to allow the Manchester - Milford Haven services which terminate at Carmarthen to run through to Haverfordwest giving that route an hourly service west of Carmarthen.

That said it will be nice to see some hst's retained beyond 2020 although pity we can have the valenta engines back.

 

[cle]

I bet the prisoners' wives are excited!

 

[merlodlliw]

I bet the prisoners' wives are excited!

Too personal for me to get involved with excited wives
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only problem I see with ATW using hst's is that they are replacing younger rolling stock (the class 175's) which I believe have really settled down and are not as problematic compared to when they were 1st delivered to First North Western.

The Manchester services are supposed to be continuing beyond Cardiff to Milford Haven which I dont think will be able to justify a 5 carriage HST although I suppose it would help with extra capacity to Pembroke Dock on summer Saturdays.

If they want to Use HST's just keep them on the Cardiff - Holyhead route and use the free up class 158/175's to provide extra capacity and to allow the Manchester - Milford Haven services which terminate at Carmarthen to run through to Haverfordwest giving that route an hourly service west of Carmarthen.

That said it will be nice to see some hst's retained beyond 2020 although pity we can have the valenta engines back.

We know how good the 175s are,problem is unlike HSTs three coaches are max on 175s, I am sure North Western trains who ordered them never dreamed they would travel such long distances, plus the summer up here is chronic with overcrowding, at least with 175s you can pull the chain in a station,
But there's nowt as strange as politicians thinking as we found out.

 

[merlodlliw]

I read that as meaning that only some, not all, of the route is being doubled.

Here is the latest offering from the Minister, I asked my AM Ken Skates about cost reduction on the redouble,& got no response to this.

Please find below an abstract from the letter and I have also attached the response from the Minister that confirms plans for the redoubling are intact and fully funded.

"Thank you for your email of 7 November to Lesley Griffiths AM about the redoubling of the Wrexham to Bidston line. I am replying in view of my portfolio responsibilities.
On 2 October I announced a £44m scheme with Network Rail to improve the north-south rail links.
The scheme will involve a significant doubling of the existing single line between Wrexham and Chester and line speed improvements. This will reduce north south journey times by up to 16 minutes.
Exact details of the scheme can be found in the link below:
http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/rail/projects/existing/nsroute/?lang=en"

 

[Squaddie]

I'm not really clear on the extent of this redoubling. The list of enhancements in the project description says:

The scheme will involve:

doubling the line between Wrexham and Chester
re-doubling 5.5 miles of line between Rossett and Saltney Junction

What does this mean? Is the entire line between Wrexham and Chester being doubled, or just the smaller section between Rossett and Saltney?

 

[The Planner]

It isn't the whole lot, it is just Rossett to Saltney, with a tiny bit at the Wrexham end, though I have heard whispers that might have been pegged back a bit.