Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway

[John R]

From what I understand the Stirling proposal, which gained ORR approval was for Grand Unon Trains headed by Ian Yeowart. I believe that this organisation (the Stirling part) has been taken over by First Group so maybe there is some delay tothe company changeover.

From a rolling stock perspective I believe there are eight 221s planned to be in the Alstom pool - ie the balance of the ex Avanti fleet after coming off lease from West Coast.

The Carmarthen initiative is separate and has not been sold to First Group. So I think my comments still stand in that procurement hasn’t moved forward in two years.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The Carmarthen initiative is separate and has not been sold to First Group. So I think my comments still stand in that procurement hasn’t moved forward in two years.

I highly doubt anybody is going to buy those paths or start up those Carmarthen services any time soon as they are/were contingent on funding and building some huge new parkway station near Swansea that I don't think is sustainable for most open access operators - even First Group would struggle because station planning, design and construction costs are completely unmanageable at the moment.

First may as well wait until the paths 'expire' and put in their own application to ORR without the obligation for a new station, and hope that they can find a way to meet the not primarily abstractive test in a different way.

 

[John R]

I highly doubt anybody is going to buy those paths or start up those Carmarthen services any time soon as they are/were contingent on funding and building some huge new parkway station near Swansea that I don't think is sustainable for most open access operators - even First Group would struggle because station planning, design and construction costs are completely unmanageable at the moment.

First may as well wait until the paths 'expire' and put in their own application to ORR without the obligation for a new station, and hope that they can find a way to meet the not primarily abstractive test in a different way.

I’m inclined to agree with you. It will go the same way as the Blackpool OA service did in due course.

And of course, GWR now (probably not a coincidence) run a more frequent service west of Swansea, which won’t have helped the business case.

 

[Zontar]

The Stirling services will be Lumo branded - Lumo is associated with it's 'green credentials' - and that is all I will say on that topic...!

You can't use 25kV electric all the way, but there are other options.....

Any idea of timescale?

 

[Bald Rick]

You can't use 25kV electric all the way, but there are other options.....

Which bits arent electrified?

 

[dan4291]

The Stirling services will be Lumo branded - Lumo is associated with it's 'green credentials' - and that is all I will say on that topic...!

You can't use 25kV electric all the way, but there are other options.....

Source for the Lumo branding for this service?

 

[Western 52]

I’m inclined to agree with you. It will go the same way as the Blackpool OA service did in due course.

And of course, GWR now (probably not a coincidence) run a more frequent service west of Swansea, which won’t have helped the business case.

And the GWR services west of Swansea are normally quiet so are more than adequate for current demand.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Which bits arent electrified?

For the purposes of this application, Crewe/Weaver Junction area and bits of the north.

I believe the Avanti additional Liverpool services also have this issue - and that is why there are proposals to use bi-modes as a temporary position.

The line is electrified, but because of woeful infrastructure and years of delay/HS2 uncertainty, there is not enough electricity being supplied to support additional electric services, however bizarre that sounds. However, batteries etc are increasingly viable.

It also doesn't factor in that a lot of planned electric freight paths actually run as diesel - so there is probably more electricity available, but because freight operators have the right to the electric, you couldn't rely on that.

 

[Bald Rick]

For the purposes of this application, Crewe/Weaver Junction area and bits of the north.

I believe the Avanti additional Liverpool services also have this issue - and that is why there are proposals to use bi-modes as a temporary position.

The line is electrified, but because of woeful infrastructure and years of delay/HS2 uncertainty, there is not enough electricity being supplied to support additional electric services, however bizarre that sounds. However, batteries etc are increasingly viable.

It also doesn't factor in that a lot of planned electric freight paths actually run as diesel - so there is probably more electricity available, but because freight operators have the right to the electric, you couldn't rely on that.

Ah. So they can use electric all the way.

 

[Wyrleybart]

For the purposes of this application, Crewe/Weaver Junction area and bits of the north.

I believe the Avanti additional Liverpool services also have this issue - and that is why there are proposals to use bi-modes as a temporary position.

The line is electrified, but because of woeful infrastructure and years of delay/HS2 uncertainty, there is not enough electricity being supplied to support additional electric services, however bizarre that sounds. However, batteries etc are increasingly viable.

It also doesn't factor in that a lot of planned electric freight paths actually run as diesel - so there is probably more electricity available, but because freight operators have the right to the electric, you couldn't rely on that.

Time that UK PLC stopped trying to keep up with the Europeans switch off all the OLE and run everything on diesel it is a humiliating disgrace to time served railway staff who have memories of how trains used to be run. Very rare you would run diesel hauled trains under the wires between Rugby and Watford and eve nthe coal from Daw Mill to Tring was electrically hauled from Nuneaton.

 

[12LDA28C]

Time that UK PLC stopped trying to keep up with the Europeans switch off all the OLE and run everything on diesel it is a humiliating disgrace to time served railway staff who have memories of how trains used to be run. Very rare you would run diesel hauled trains under the wires between Rugby and Watford and eve nthe coal from Daw Mill to Tring was electrically hauled from Nuneaton.

Not when I used to see it in the late 1980s - it was occasionally Class 20s but more usually 58s.

See attached photo...

 

[frodshamfella]

For the purposes of this application, Crewe/Weaver Junction area and bits of the north.

I believe the Avanti additional Liverpool services also have this issue - and that is why there are proposals to use bi-modes as a temporary position.

The line is electrified, but because of woeful infrastructure and years of delay/HS2 uncertainty, there is not enough electricity being supplied to support additional electric services, however bizarre that sounds. However, batteries etc are increasingly viable.

It also doesn't factor in that a lot of planned electric freight paths actually run as diesel - so there is probably more electricity available, but because freight operators have the right to the electric, you couldn't rely on that.

When you hear there just isn't enough juice to run this second Liverpool service, its does seem quite incredible .

 

[nwales58]

Time that UK PLC stopped trying to keep up with the Europeans switch off all the OLE and run everything on diesel …

Mr Baker’s ghost, I presume?

That seemed to be DfT policy for a while. De-electrify north of Newcastle for a start.

... time served railway staff who have memories of how trains used to be run. Very rare you would run diesel hauled trains under the wires between Rugby and Watford ...

whereas in the past 3 decades most journeys I have made on through trains between the north wales coast and London were diesel under the wires Crewe-Euston, apart from the dragged Pendolinos years ago.