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Wrongly Assumed Facts by Passengers

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61653 HTAFC

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That having a ticket from A to B means you can use it via E because it has "Any Permitted" on it. Had that argument with someone that thought he could use his Carlisle to London ticket via Cheltenham and Stroud because it says he can take any route..

(Although I agree that "Any Permitted" is a bit ambiguous and I wish they'd change it).
At times of disruption, the announcement that another TOC will accept tickets via "any reasonable route" is another: reasonable to whom, exactly?
 
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_toommm_

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You would be surprised, or maybe not, at the amount of people that will argue black is white when told something that doesn't tally with what they have read on their phone

I've always wondered why it shows as 4 on RTT. Obviously I'm not stupid enough to do that as Sheffield has been my local station for all my life, but it's nice to see it finally explained,
 

SwindonBert

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That having a ticket from A to B means you can use it via E because it has "Any Permitted" on it. Had that argument with someone that thought he could use his Carlisle to London ticket via Cheltenham and Stroud because it says he can take any route..

(Although I agree that "Any Permitted" is a bit ambiguous and I wish they'd change it).

Presumably wanted to break their journey, or, they really must have had time to spare on their journey
 

SaveECRewards

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That it's better to trust the official TOC Twitter account rather that some random other accounts.
That Virgin Trains (EC+WC) is a single company managed 100% by Richard Branson.
That Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Gatwick Express are separate companies.
I've bought a 'West Midlands Trains only' ticket from Euston to Milton Keynes and find out that they don't seem to operate from Euston!
CrossCountry would have much better trains if Virgin ran it! (from someone who never realised they had, then there's many who still think they do run it)

Some odd things I heard in person:
(Heard on a train from Schiphol) At least the Dutch don't have Abellio to deal with
(March 2015, a week or so after VTEC started, passenger to the train guard) Has Virgin bought GNER? (I wonder if they were a very occasional passenger or somehow missed the other changes as they were less in your face)
(Weekday on a GWR service) I'm not paying that much to upgrade! Virgin only charge £15
 

goblinuser

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That having a ticket from A to B means you can use it via E because it has "Any Permitted" on it. Had that argument with someone that thought he could use his Carlisle to London ticket via Cheltenham and Stroud because it says he can take any route..

(Although I agree that "Any Permitted" is a bit ambiguous and I wish they'd change it).
I wonder what view the courts would take on 'ROUTE: ANY PERMITTED' validity.
 

swaldman

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I wonder what view the courts would take on 'ROUTE: ANY PERMITTED' validity.

I'm pretty sure they'd be sympathetic to the passenger, for two reasons:
Firstly, because it's perfectly sensible to read it as "Any route is permitted".
Secondly, because even if you read it as "Any permitted route", there is no practical way to know what routes are permitted. My understanding is that one is supposed to skip away from the ticket machine, visit one's nearest county library, consult a thousand-page book, and then return to buy the ticket. I guess nowadays one could do it online, but on a phone? I don't think a court would buy this as being reasonable, though it might be harder to argue at a manned station where one could go to a ticket window instead.

Incidentally, with the correct reading, Any Permitted is an entirely pointless statement. Obviously the ticket is valid for the routes that are permitted, that's sort of the point of it..........
 

Bletchleyite

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GW didn't invent the coloured zones I'm afraid, I think they were the brainchild of an Intercity manager. They appeared at Wakefield Westgate during the "shadow franchise" era, along with several other locations a long way from the South-west.

However, other than the signs being placed, I personally can't recall any announcements or posters ever making reference to the various coloured zones... at all! So I'd always assumed that the idea was pretty much dead from the beginning.

They were well used on the WCML right back to BR IC days, which might well be where they originated. I have "please board the train in the Blue Zone" firmly encoded in my brain as the standard announcement for any 2-car DMU service at Preston!
 

Starmill

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I wonder what view the courts would take on 'ROUTE: ANY PERMITTED' validity.
I suspect they would take the view that it means what the NRCoT says it means? A permitted route is one taken by a through train, the shortest route by rail and the routes shown in the routeing guide. I can't imagine what else a court might see it as meaning?
 

Steddenm

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GW didn't invent the coloured zones I'm afraid, I think they were the brainchild of an Intercity manager. They appeared at Wakefield Westgate during the "shadow franchise" era, along with several other locations a long way from the South-west.

However, other than the signs being placed, I personally can't recall any announcements or posters ever making reference to the various coloured zones... at all! So I'd always assumed that the idea was pretty much dead from the beginning.

I do remember InterCity West Coast had the zones, and Nuneaton used to advertise them a lot.

“Platform 3 for the 21:16 InterCity West Coast service to Holyhead. Calling at Stafford, Crewe, Chester, Prestatyn, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Holyhead. First class can be found in the gold and blue zones, standard class in the purple and orange zones. A buffet car is available between standard and first class.”
 

jon0844

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I work for BA, although Gate numbers are known in advance, they do change but the BAA doesn't like us publishing gate numbers early as they'd rather have passengers in the terminal shopping rather than sitting down at the gate not spending any money.

Are there apps to see what the gate will be before it is officially published? As you say, airports want you to go to the gate as late as possible but I'm often more keen to get to a gate and sit on my laptop.

Not only do I not really want to shop at an airport, but prices are usually so high that I wouldn't even if I wanted to!
 

Lockwood

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“First class can be found in the gold and blue zones, standard class in the purple and orange zones. A buffet car is available between standard and first class.”
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a red zone.
 

CaptainHaddock

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That 99% of announcements - both at stations and on trains - will tell you anything you actually need to know.
 

Springs Branch

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If an inspector catches you dodging a £2.10 fare, the train company won't take you to Court because it's not worth the effort for £2.10.

If you get a letter from the train company about an unpaid £2.10 fare, you can completely ignore it and nothing else will happen, because it's only £2.10.
 

dangie

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Sorry I haven't read all of the previous posts so apologies if this has already been said.

To turn it around:

"Wrongly Assumed facts by Railway Enthusiasts"

That the railway is there for them and not passengers

Reading many posts on many threads on this forum you would not be wrong to presume this is sometimes the case.

...tin hat on ready......
 

anti-pacer

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Sorry I haven't read all of the previous posts so apologies if this has already been said.

To turn it around:

"Wrongly Assumed facts by Railway Enthusiasts"

That the railway is there for them and not passengers

Reading many posts on many threads on this forum you would not be wrong to presume this is sometimes the case.

...tin hat on ready......


Couldn't agree more. There does seem to be an air of superiority amongst some that passengers must be stupid if they don't know the same as those who are clued up. I know the media can be guilty of sloppy reporting, and passengers often have unreasonable expectations, but your average rail user is just interested in travelling from A to B, on time, in comfort, and sitting down. These requests are pretty acceptable in my humble opinion.

I'm no expert myself on the rail industry, but to the average Joe on the street, the fact that trains are privatised, but a government body decides who gets new trains, etc, and the tracks they are running on are owned by another organisation, must be confusing. Some passengers are stupid, of course, but let's not assume that the majority are.
 

xotGD

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Sorry I haven't read all of the previous posts so apologies if this has already been said.

To turn it around:

"Wrongly Assumed facts by Railway Enthusiasts"

That the railway is there for them and not passengers

Reading many posts on many threads on this forum you would not be wrong to presume this is sometimes the case.

...tin hat on ready......
That everyone who works on the railway is interested in the railway.
 

MG11

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I'm not sure why but when pax Tweet about their Guard and call him/her the Driver, it really irks me. They'll put things like great, friendly driver checking my tickets today (as the train is moving)!
 

Chris M

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Earlier in the thread there was some discussion about the meaning of "front train". At Marylebone yesterday the display boards were advertising a service as being simultaneously the "far train" and "front 4 coaches only" (or possibly carriages). There was also this helpful sign (which ties in as well with the platform number suffixing comments).
far_train.jpg

As for my own experience, I remember being very confused when catching a train from the through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly for the first time. I was catching a train that divided en route and so needed to be in the correct portion, I think the front, but there was no indication which way the train would be travelling and no member of staff visible to ask.
 

J-Rod

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That everyone who works on the railway is interested in the railway.

My in-laws. It was a favourite past-time of one to pretend that they knew absolutely nothing about their job when questioned about something by an enthusiast.

Then again, I wouldn't want to spend my free time doing what I was paid to do most of the time, so I totally get that!
 

Chris M

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Sorry I haven't read all of the previous posts so apologies if this has already been said.

To turn it around:

"Wrongly Assumed facts by Railway Enthusiasts"
That any class of train withdrawn from duty for whatever reason is suitable to be used to provide new/additional trains on any other route anywhere in the country (DLR stock on the IOW, 442s just about everywhere, ...).

That as they took an off-peak journey on the line once, in one direction, several years ago they are more qualified to comment on services/trains and what they should look like than regular passengers are.
 

pompeyfan

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My in-laws. It was a favourite past-time of one to pretend that they knew absolutely nothing about their job when questioned about something by an enthusiast.

Then again, I wouldn't want to spend my free time doing what I was paid to do most of the time, so I totally get that!

At the same time you also get lots of rail staff who dabble in the occasional simulator, train sim or Simsig type thing to pass the time.
 

J-Rod

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At the same time you also get lots of rail staff who dabble in the occasional simulator, train sim or Simsig type thing to pass the time.

Yeah, I'm not saying all. Just saying that I can understand why they want to leave work in work. However, my father in law goes a little bit misty eyed when you get him talking about 47s and mk2 rakes out of a certain North Norfolk station, back in t'day... Then he snaps himself out of it and goes to get another beer
 

12guard4

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That the train will wait for you like its your own personal taxi service and doesn't run to a timetable with hundreds of other people on.
 

mallard

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That holding a valid ticket entitles you to travel.

That by carefully following the railway rules/byelaws you can completely avoid any possibility of being liable to criminal charges.

That passengers have rights...
 

randyrippley

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They were well used on the WCML right back to BR IC days, which might well be where they originated. I have "please board the train in the Blue Zone" firmly encoded in my brain as the standard announcement for any 2-car DMU service at Preston!

They may have started at Lancaster and Preston, for a while the yellow line at both was a blue / pink / other line depending on the zone. Then they introduced zone signage which didn't correspond with the lines and created chaos
 

randyrippley

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I'm not sure why but when pax Tweet about their Guard and call him/her the Driver, it really irks me. They'll put things like great, friendly driver checking my tickets today (as the train is moving)!

Well everyone knows trains only have one member of staff, so he must be the driver
 

Peter Mugridge

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Are there apps to see what the gate will be before it is officially published?

Not as such, but if you Google the flight number, you'll get the seven day history on Flight Radar 24 or something as the first result, and usually the aircraft allocation is shown about 24 hours ahead, although in case the diagram is switched it's best to check about 3 - 4 hours ahead. You thus know which aircraft is booked to operate your flight. You can then follow it in on something like FR24 itself or the LHR Live Radar website ( which covers an awful lot more than just Heathrow! ) and see from the departure lounge which gate the aircraft parks up at... ;)
 
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