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WSMR to finish

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The Planner

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How many are likely to be on the way out from this ?? surely the drivers will still be required to run Chiltern loco hauled or are Chiltern training up drivers seperately ?? Lots of factors in this one I think, money for one and I dont think the Dft helped as Ive heard they have refused the rights to call at Leamington Spa and full open stops at Banbury.
 
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Ferret

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Just to echo previous thoughts, my condolences to the guys over at WSMR who are now looking for new jobs. I can't say I'm surprised by this, given all the talk of LHCS services aplenty between Marylebone and Moor St (the stock has to come from somewhere), but it must be such a massive kick in the teeth for all those people who have worked so hard to make the company work.

Good luck finding jobs guys - I really hope that there'll be at least some suitable vacancies within the DB/Arriva group of companies.
 

thefab444

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Looks like the WSMR sceptics were right, I wonder what Merlodlliw's take on this will be? Blame the WAG? Virgin Trains?

Good luck to all the staff in finding new jobs.
 

tbtc

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My sympathy to everyone involved. I suspect that the gods decided that using the stock was more profitable on Chiltern and WAG services (when the 2nd one starts)

That's it; the opportunity cost of using that stock is more profitable, either on a lucrative state-funded "jolly" (Gerald Two) or on commuter services into Birmingham/London (Chiltern)

This may be no comment on the profitability of the WMSR service, just that DB had better uses for the stock elsewhere.

The comments about "sixty jobs lost" need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as a number of these staff will be needed elsewhere in DB (ATW or Chiltern). Some may also be needed for the ATW services to London.

I'd also take issue with the "WMSR staff are a thousand times better than at any other TOC" argument that some use, because I find that a bit insulting to the thousands of dedicated staff at other TOCs who are "at the coal face" each day. It must be a lot easier to be polite and professional when you are dealing with leisure passengers on a "railtour-standard" service - a lot harder to cope with stressed commuters on crowded trains elsewhere.

Finally, may I speculate whether this may calm down some of the nuttier Open Access applications from elsewhere? Hope so...
 

tbtc

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Looks like the WSMR sceptics were right, I wonder what Merlodlliw's take on this will be? Blame the WAG? Virgin Trains?

As a long running WMSR-sceptic, I take no pleasure in the news, but I think we all knew it was a matter of when and not if, realistically
 

GNERman

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This is a big shame for the railway industry with the highest rated Passenger Satisfaction company soon to be no more.

I think we knew this was coming when a) they cut the number services they were operating per day and b) when Andy Hamilton issued their "use it or lose it" plea.

This is an unfortunate time for this to happen as I was expecting them to apply for full passenger rights for Wolverhampton and possibly Birmingham New Street.

I hope it is all bad news though. There is a possibility that the stock goes to a) Chiltern for their loco hauled services, b) ATW for the WAG express, soon to need 2 sets or c) ATW for their formerly proposed Aberystwyth - London services, of which loco hauled is much more suited than 158s.

Let's hope that the staff can be placed elsewhere within DB.
 

dk1

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A colleague of mine took his 87 year old father to Shrewsbury out via WSMR & back via ATW/Virgin. Even though he had to change at Wolves he said his Dad wouldnt do the Marylebone option very often as it seemed to take an age. This from somebody with too much time on his hands says it all really.
 

Mojo

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Just reported on BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12284468
 

CosherB

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This is very sad news. Sad of course for the employees who will lose their jobs, but also for UK Rail. WSR set a standard of service for others to strive for. We need that - it ups the game of the railways generally.

Very glad to say I've travelled on their Marylebone - Shrewesbury service a few times, 1st class, and it was up to 'fine dining' standards.

Why do the companies with the best service bite the dust?
 

Squaddie

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It was inevitable. The long journey times, inconvenient schedules and almost constant delays and diversions due to engineering works simply kept passengers away. Even I, a one-time supporter of the company, have been using Virgin and ATW recently to get to Wrexham: who on earth wants to trundle through the boondocks at 40mph for hour after hour?
 

Daimler

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A crying shame. From a purely selfish point of view, I'll miss being able to travel on a real quality service for a change.

However, in reality, my thoughts and sympathy go to all those staff who've worked so hard to make it a success, and now have to start looking for jobs elsewhere. I do hope that a number of them will find jobs with Chiltern.
 

Railjet

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From the WSMR website:

WSMR website: Local train company Wrexham & Shropshire today announced that, following an investigation into all possible alternatives, the company will cease operations on Friday 28th January 2011.

The organisation cited the unprecedented economic environment as a contributing factor and although the company has strived to increase passenger numbers, it has been determined that the business has no prospect of reaching profitability. Wrexham & Shropshire is not insolvent nor is it being placed in administration and all outstanding financial commitments will be met. Alternative employment opportunities within the railway industry are being sought for the 55 employees, and all staff wages and full redundancy entitlements will be paid.

The company has undertaken a series of activities in an attempt to move the business into profit. In 2009 the original service of five trains per day was reduced to four. This was followed in December 2010 when two lightly used services were combined to reduce the service to three trains per day. In addition, an agreement was reached with sister company Chiltern Railways to assist with their capacity and the company investigated opportunities for operational and management synergy between Wrexham & Shropshire and Arriva Trains Wales, also owned by DB. The opportunity to generate income by serving Wolverhampton, after April 2012 when contractual restrictions are expected to be removed, was also considered.

Chairman Adrian Shooter, CBE explained: "Regrettably, we have concluded that the potential for further changes to the company's operations, including any synergy with Arriva Trains Wales, will not improve the financial position sufficiently. The shareholders have invested in excess of £13m in launching the business and funding its losses, and have now concluded that there is no reasonable prospect that Wrexham & Shropshire can become profitable, or offer a return on this investment."

Wrexham & Shropshire launched in April 2008, restoring direct train services between Wrexham, Shropshire and London. The company quickly developed a reputation for excellence in customer service, which was rewarded in autumn 2010 with a 99% customer satisfaction score in the benchmark National Passenger Survey. Despite strong growth in passenger numbers, the business has not been able to generate sufficient revenues to cover more than 65% of the cost of operating the service and in 2010 alone suffered losses of £2.9 million.

Chairman Adrian Shooter said: "Even though we are forced to close the business, we remain extremely proud of what we have achieved with Wrexham & Shropshire; with many stating that we set the standard for all other train companies to follow. I would like to pay tribute to Andy Hamilton, Managing Director, and everyone in the Wrexham & Shropshire team. Our people are the best in the business and have set the standard for others to follow."

The company also expressed gratitude to the local community for their support of the business including the many volunteers who gave up their time to hand out flyers and those individuals and organisations who have worked to encourage people to use the service.

The last train to depart will be the 1830 train from London Marylebone to Wrexham General on Friday 28th January 2011. From Saturday 29th January, all Wrexham & Shropshire tickets already purchased will be valid on alternative routes into London Euston operated by Arriva Trains Wales, London Midland and Virgin Trains, and from London Marylebone by Chiltern Railways.

The Wrexham & Shropshire customer service centre will remain open to provide customer support. Customers wishing to speak to an adviser should call 0845 260 5200 (local call rate from anywhere in the UK).
 

Oswyntail

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As previously discussed, the "satisfaction" is a useless comparison against other TOCs - you might as well compare apples with oranges.
I understand where you are coming from, but it would be foolish not to see if other TOCs could learn lessons. In particular the provision of decent catering and customer service to leisure customers, which you wrote was easy, seems to be out of fashion on other long-distance operators. Could they not learn something?
 

TDK

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How many are likely to be on the way out from this ?? surely the drivers will still be required to run Chiltern loco hauled or are Chiltern training up drivers seperately ?? Lots of factors in this one I think, money for one and I dont think the Dft helped as Ive heard they have refused the rights to call at Leamington Spa and full open stops at Banbury.

It's not as easy as that planner - a lot of people have relocated and put a lot into WSMR - we will let the dust settle and see what our options are, there isn'r anything to blame it's just unfortunate that the company had too many stumbling blocks in their way to be able to operate to their full capacity, you know full well the restriction that were put in place and it is these that was the root cause for the non profitability and not the workforce.
 

Greenback

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The writing has been on the wall for some time. At a time whan onboard facilities continue to be reduced, it would seem to be another nail in the coffin of full meal services on UK trains.

I am sad to see them go, and I am sorry for the staff, but it wa sbound to happen.
 

phil beard

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Very sad news, especially for the loyal staff. I only had one return trip with them, but the service and food were fantastic and I wish all the employees the very best. Watch your back, Grand Central!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Yes, this is such a shame, I was lucky enough to travel on WSR a while ago, the trains, staff, service and food were all wonderful, I think I would prefer a slower journey with WSR going direct to Telford/Shrewsbury etc, rather than a faster service and having to change at Birmingham or Wolves.

Thank you and good luck to all the staff at WSR.
 
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This is sad news, but as others have said it was only a matter of time, and with WMSR and Chiltern having the same governence, did we not all expect it.

I wonder if Chiltern would be inclined to run an extended Snow Hill service to Shrewsbury and Wrexham? Perhaps only one service in each direction a day. But it would be enough to satisfy the day trippers, and would supply the missing Birmingham link to the service which would appear to be one of the defining factors in WMSR's failure.
 

Skip 10

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That's it; the opportunity cost of using that stock is more profitable, either on a lucrative state-funded "jolly" (Gerald Two) or on commuter services into Birmingham/London (Chiltern)

This may be no comment on the profitability of the WMSR service, just that DB had better uses for the stock elsewhere.The comments about "sixty jobs lost" need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as a number of these staff will be needed elsewhere in DB (ATW or Chiltern). Some may also be needed for the ATW services to London.

I'd also take issue with the "WMSR staff are a thousand times better than at any other TOC" argument that some use, because I find that a bit insulting to the thousands of dedicated staff at other TOCs who are "at the coal face" each day. It must be a lot easier to be polite and professional when you are dealing with leisure passengers on a "railtour-standard" service - a lot harder to cope with stressed commuters on crowded trains elsewhere.

Finally, may I speculate whether this may calm down some of the nuttier Open Access applications from elsewhere? Hope so...

The 1st point I find myself having to agree with you. 2nd point and with the greatest reguard you sir are a prat! I dont think anyone that was in that room last night is taking this with "a pinch of salt". To see people that have become family to me and TDK over the last 3 years crying and this was fully growen men is one of the most heart breaking things. to come home and tell my wife that our unborn child has an unemployed farther has ripped another piece out of me. How dare you as an outsider judge the effort we have put in. If half the story came out of what we have had to work with or the conditions weve have worked through you would soon take it back. What do you think our trains have been like? Ive worked many that have been full and standing. that have had more reservations than seats. Ive worked many commuter trains that there have been problems with or on and had stressed passengers on. How dare you judge us from the outside. Weve all gone that extra mile and that is because we have had too, if we didnt this would have come to the point it has alot sooner. May i suggest in future before commenting on something you know nothing about you ask those involved!!!
 

cuccir

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I don't think tbtc's comments are harsh, or intended to be disparaging to WSMR staff. Tbtc's comments were about the service more broadly, not those who worked hard to provide it. Nor does it say that WSMR didn't have to work hard! FWIW, pretty much every other comment on here has been people from the outside judging the situation.

Everyone sympathises with the horrible nature of what's happened, and we all hope that DB can find employment elsewhere for as many of you as possible, but that shouldn't stop people discussing the wider implications for rail in the UK.

I just hope that this demise isn't used as further evidence that on-train service is luxury; however, it might help open access operators see that the 'medium sized town/small city > London' plan isn't always the best option, or the only one available.
 

Skip 10

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I don't think tbtc's comments are harsh, or intended to be disparaging to WSMR staff. Tbtc's comments were about the service more broadly, not those who worked hard to provide it. Nor does it say that WSMR didn't have to work hard! FWIW, pretty much every other comment on here has been people from the outside judging the situation.

Everyone sympathises with the horrible nature of what's happened, and we all hope that DB can find employment elsewhere for as many of you as possible, but that shouldn't stop people discussing the wider implications for rail in the UK.

I just hope that this demise isn't used as further evidence that on-train service is luxury; however, it might help open access operators see that the 'medium sized town/small city > London' plan isn't always the best option, or the only one available.

Im not arguing that but I would call the fact that 55 people are now out of work is a little more than "a pinch of salt". Or that we where a "railtour standard service" are not in the slightest bit correct and therefore should have been placed in tbtc posting.
 

The Planner

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you know full well the restriction that were put in place and it is these that was the root cause for the non profitability and not the workforce.

But WSMR knew that from the start and must have (you'd hope) factored that in. Like I said before, as soon as you started having open stops at Banbury and Leamington the pax numbers picked up, those rights were lost though.
 

mrcheek

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I understand where you are coming from, but it would be foolish not to see if other TOCs could learn lessons. In particular the provision of decent catering and customer service to leisure customers, which you wrote was easy, seems to be out of fashion on other long-distance operators. Could they not learn something?

Yes, the other TOCs can learn lessons, such as:

Dont waste money on an over elaborate catering operation, as the end result will be to lose money.
 

Greenback

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That is what other TOC's will see, but the reality is a bit more complicated as far as WSMR were concerned. They had higher barriers to surmount than just the catering.
 

Daimler

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But WSMR knew that from the start and must have (you'd hope) factored that in. Like I said before, as soon as you started having open stops at Banbury and Leamington the pax numbers picked up, those rights were lost though.

I'm a little confused here - have WSMR lost the right to stop at Banbury and Leamington now? How come? :|
 
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