WSMR to finish

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Dampflok, 26 Jan 2011.

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  1. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    Office of Rail Regulator
    Their application is based on Class 67 and Mark 3 coaches
    Grand Central were questioned over this and had assurances the rolling stock would be available from early 2011
    Given all the stock was already in use (as at January 2011) the Rail Regulator finally had it confirmed from DBS that they would indeed be able to supply the required rolling stock, as advised on 11 January 2011

    Route training can then commence later this year, for the service to commence early in 2012, as per the application

    The Rail Regulator is likely to respond within the next 14 days, but given WSR has now announced service closure it looks like this will satisify that final requirement

    Equally, a parallel company of Grand Central has now been setup to operate all their WCML services
    Ironically, this includes a Shrewsbury - Euston service
     
  2. crewmeal

    crewmeal Member

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    Virgin will be rubbing their hands with joy no doubt. What a relief for them that the competition has gone. They need not bother with a service to Wrexham now. If the restrictions hadn't been put on them in the first place and they were given the freedom to stop and pick up then it might have succeeded. If airlines can compete why the hell can't the railways??
     
  3. shinkansen1966

    shinkansen1966 Established Member

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    Because the government gives the UK rail industry several billion pounds each year. In fact, half of the money needed to run our rail industry now comes from the taxpayer. For this reason alone, we should have a say in how our trains are run and regulated.

    Airlines are expected to run their services without public subsidy and so are have freedom on their schedules and routes.

    Now of course, you could say we support the airline industry through back door subsidies on fuel prices and airports. But that's for another thread...
     
  4. TDK

    TDK Established Member

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    This is going to be an exceptionally busy train and in my opinion without a reservation you and others will not even get near it, I don't mena that in a bad way it is just there are a lot of people travelling on it both ways
     
  5. merlodlliw

    merlodlliw Established Member

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    You poise a fair and constructive question, as to why they were taking bookings yesterday ,the reason was as a good employer they told the staff first last evening.


    Bob
     
  6. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Its come down to economics, its losing money heavily and the shareholders decided theirs no viable business plan to achieve profitability or even get their investment back so its being round up tidily before its forced into bankruptcy. This is far better than collapsing with non honored tickets or unpaid debts/wages.
     
  7. barrykas

    barrykas Established Member

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    For anyone who's planning on getting an "Any Permitted" or "route Birmingham" Off-Peak Return to travel on W&S on Friday for a journey beyond Marylebone - Leamington, be aware that time restrictions apply!

    Validity Code 9I (Northbound) or 2C (Southbound): Not valid on W&S services scheduled to leave Marylebone before 0800, nor between 1600 and 1900; and not valid on any train scheduled to arrive into Marylebone before 1005.

    Cheers,

    Barry
     
  8. Mr Spock

    Mr Spock Member

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    Not sure Virgin will be bothered, even if all WSMR trains carried 200 people each then I would hardly call that competition.

    As for the restrictions imposed they probably would not have made much difference and anyway were not down to Virgin but DFT.
     
  9. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    I don't doubt it: It comes as no surprise that this will be an seriously busy run.
     
  10. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Okay, a few items here.

    Firstly, this was never a massive surprise, there was always going to be a chance WMSR wouldn't last long term (before DB got involved), as it's a very niche product.

    Secondly, DB's involvement (and their takeover of Arriva) means that they have other uses for paths/ stock/ staff. It may be more profitable for them to use the paths/ stock/ staff elsewhere. How WMSR fared may have had no bearing on the decision to terminate, it may just be that the ultimate owners could get more return on other routes

    Thirdly, since its been a possibility for some time, its strange to close the operation at such short notice

    Fourthly, where am I judging the effort that you have put in? I'm just countering the "worship" of WMSR staff from some people on here by saying that *all* TOCs have staff who deserve praise, and that some trains are a lot harder to "work" than others

    Finally, my comment about taking the job losses "with a pinch of salt" was because not all of these will be lost. DB clearly have plans to expand some other services, so will need staff to work on these

    I've been made redundant before, I may be again before long, I know what its like. I was just saying that (whilst there will be *some* staff losing jobs) not all of the fifty five will, in fact it sounds like a lot of them will be needed to run the expanded ATW/Chiltern services (such as the Aberytwyth - London proposal, the extra WAG service being talked about, additional loco-hauled services from Moor Street to Marylebone...). I wasn't making a personal comment (though you have taken it as one)

    PS: I should also say that I don't expect this to have an impact on Hull Trains or GC to Sunderland, both of which seem to have sound business cases serving reasonable sized cities, and can tap into some ORCATs money from the ECML. However, it may stop future plans like London - Barrow in Furness - Whitehaven - Carlisle from happening
     
  11. captainbigun

    captainbigun Member

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    Application, approval and actually running a service are three very different things.
     
  12. IanPooleTrains

    IanPooleTrains Established Member

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    I don't see this as Virgin's fault and I don't really see this as the government's fault

    The blame for this goes solely smack bang in the door or Arriva Train Wales!

    Now, as far as I am aware, there are three Open Access companies (that I know of) in the uk. These are Grand Central, First Hull Trains and Wrexham & Shropshire (please dont bitch at me if I am wrong, this is what I have been lead to believe0

    Now Grand Central and First Hull didn't hzave that much of a problem because the stations that they call at are mainly Network Rail stations bar the odd few Northern Rail stations

    Wrexham and Shropshire's big problem came from the fact that they called at some of the London Midland stations, to which they didn't seem to mind but as soon as you go past Wolverhampton, you are entering ATW territory.

    It has been no secret for a long time now that ATW wanted a second loco haul service through Wrexham and were trying to get them out of there as much as possible. Then add into the equation and mix that ATW also wanted to do a Aberystwyth - London service (which I don't think has come through yet) and that to me seems like someone putting people out of business.

    Wrexham and Shropshire are a very honest company, their staff are very polite, some of the engine crew always gave warning toots when their trains were coming through the fast staions, just a couple of weeks ago, one of the crew members of the 11:42 Marylebone - Wrexham asked me if I was getting on the train because I was running up past her to get the other end and even apolgised for asking me when I told her I wasn't.

    I never had the honour of travelling on them and never will but they were a good company who looked like they didn't put a foot wrong.

    I hope their crew and stock find new homes and do well in their future endeavours, I hope their stock either goes to Chiltern or Grand Central and ATW never get their hands on it and as for ATW, they can burn in hell!

    RIP Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railways!
     
  13. GodAtum

    GodAtum On Moderation

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    I hope that any commuters in Wrexham find decent alternatives.
     
  14. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Well, that's an interesting way of looking at it...

    Grand Central (to Sunderland) and Hull Trains were both running from decent-sized-cities to London, with ORCATs money from York (GC) and Doncaster/Grantham (HT). The ECML operator didn't want them to run (in the same way that ATW didn't want WMSR to run), but once approval was given, they had clearly built a sensible business case, and seem to be profitable

    No. The Welsh Assembly want a second loco-haul service, and the Welsh Assembly (and people in north east Wales) want these services to go through Wrexham. Not an ATW wish, they merley do what the politicians thrown money at them to do

    So, WMSR should be allowed to introduce a brand new service through Telford/ Shrewsbury/Wrexham, but ATW should't be allowed to compete back???

    For the reasons above, I think your comments are more than slightly wide of the mark :lol:
     
  15. 37401

    37401 Established Member

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    As ive said on my other forums and such like, the very best of luck for the staff in the future, terrible news for all involved, ill be out on the 1830 on friday to say my goodbyes to the staff ive met and have a chat and laugh with over the past few years.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Jan 2011
  16. will1337

    will1337 Member

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    Advances on the last train from Marylebone to Tame Bridge Parkway are still available at £16.90 unless I've just bought the last one.
     
  17. 37401

    37401 Established Member

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    just going to book a seat on the 1830 myself, who do i contact about getting a reservation? and is it free
     
  18. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    Best comment on this whole site in months
     
  19. will1337

    will1337 Member

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    You can buy a ticket from Chiltern Railways. The booking engine automatically shows route High Wycombe trains along with Virgin.

    Edit: The price I quoted was railcard discounted.
     
  20. trentside

    trentside Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Hear, hear!

    When I rang their customer services to enquire about a refund for my reservation, the person I spoke to was so sincere. She kept apologizing for the disappointment and inconvenience the closure would cause me. She also thanked me when I wished her and the rest of the staff well for the future. Surely we should all be concerned about the human element, rather than trains?

    Clearly the staff at WSMR are a cut above in terms of their standards of service, and I hope they are all able to find alternative employment. They deserve security for themselves and their families, so I hope they are able to find this sooner rather than later. Sadly, often easier said than done in the present climate.
     
  21. STEVIEBOY1

    STEVIEBOY1 Established Member

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    Just had another thought, I wonder if Chiltern would extend any of their Lon/Birmingham services up to Telford/Shrewsbury etc either using the WSR stcok & locos or their own DMUs, I think they do have a few through trains from Lon to Kidderminster & Stratford too.
     
  22. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    Since DB own ATW as well couldnt some of the Staff be transfered to work for ATW say on the Holyhead - Cardiff/Swansea express services?

    Again if there are any wrexham & shropshire staff on here i wish you all the best for the future and thank you for all the hard work you all put into the company
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    It would probably be a longer journey than it is now especially since it takes at least 1 hour 45 minutes from Birmingham to London Marylebone and i think its at least 3 hours or so from Kidderminster to London
     
  23. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

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    Kidderminster to London takes 2h 44m on a direct train
     
  24. cymro inside

    cymro inside Member

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    it is a sad day for the staff and the travellers of Wrexham, Gobowen and Salop,will the buffet at Wrexham have to close as well?(it is run by wsmr) what I dont understand is why a last ditch card to retain some sort of service was not played by using class 168s and then at least some staff would still be employed.hopefully the staff will all find jobs within the industry as they deserve to continue in their chosen industry.
     
  25. ChampsRacing

    ChampsRacing Member

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    Very sad to hear the news about this, my condolenses to everyone involved.
    Me working with swt i know just how much you come to rely on the wages brought in every month working for a toc and too loose that must be one of the worst feelings. Hope you all find employment soon.
     
  26. Pumbaa

    Pumbaa Established Member

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    A sad day for all concerned - my thanks to all the railway men and women who made it such an experience to travel with. I am very sorry for all of you, and I hope opportunities come your way shortly. Both Andy and Adrian (particularly Andy) put heart and soul into the operation, but the sad truth is that the venture strived to serve a market that didn't exist in the first place. That's not knocking the staff who served it, it is a comment on the economics of the whole business proposal. It has cost some people a lot of money, and if they'd thought it through properly I think the whole thing would have never got off the ground.

    In other news 650 BBC staff have been announced as losing their jobs today as well. And thousands more set to become so over the coming years. My condolences for all of you, especially TDK and Skip_10; both of you seem to be esteemed professionals. Laying off my employees when I had to close the business I owned was one of the hardest things I have ever done, and I did my damnedest to get them into re-employment in a very competitive industry as soon as I could. I hope Hamilton et al will help you also.
     
  27. crewmeal

    crewmeal Member

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    Further to my last post - wouldn't it be nice if Virgin could extend it's Pretendolino operation to Shrewsbury. It could be stabled each night and start the first service from there to Euston and possibly do a couple of shuttles during the day tagged on to the present New Street operation.
     
  28. merlodlliw

    merlodlliw Established Member

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    My feelings are for the staff, sod the locos.

    Tony, with all due respect, this is now, the ghost path from Swansea is bizarre,like you I have seen the May 2011 timetable on RF, and the 2nd WAG is all up in the air with no start date,at this time,the original path is now binned via Crewe but one as to note, Holyhead is around 100miles from Wrexham,local staff need jobs now.

    The only extra trains on the Cambrian will be the hourly service,if WAG comes up with the money,which seems very distant. DB wont touch the 158s to London now, too expensive to run in this economic climate,in my opinion it was only a spoiler anyhow.

    I am sure DB will do all it can to find jobs for these excellent people, they set a standard unsurpassed, those that used W/S are only too aware of this.

    Luckily the hubs at Chester & Crewe are nearby which may help.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2011
  29. TDK

    TDK Established Member

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    Errrm - It isn't electrified from Wolvo to Shrewsbury so no class 90 or a pretendolino or anything else I would imagine.
     
  30. TomJ93

    TomJ93 Member

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    I can only find two services on Chiltern's site, where is the afternoon one? I was planning to do a bash on it to say farewell to the staff.
     
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