Yellow door warning stickers on TPE's fleet

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by alexl92, 4 Jun 2015.

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  1. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

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    I've noticed over the past few months that TPE's stock have had yellow warning stickers applied to the inner edges of the doors warning people not to get crushed between the doors.

    Why have they done this? It looks tacky, no other operator puts them on and surely nobody is thick enough to not understand how doors work?
     
  2. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    In response to this (or another?) incident?

    http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2013/investigation-into-passenger-trapped-in-a-door/

     
  3. simonmpoulton

    simonmpoulton Member

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    Are some people really stupid enough to try and board when the doors are closing?
     
  4. hassaanhc

    hassaanhc Established Member

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    Given how often it happens on London Underground, where most of the time the next train is a few minutes later, I'd say yes, thousands of people are "stupid enough" :D
     
  5. hidden

    hidden Member

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    Happens all the time, I see it everyday one way or another.
     
  6. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    The link by Darandio leads to the full RAIB report, which reveals that there was a design fault on 185s causing a risk that a passenger's wrist could be trapped in a door on a 185 and not detected by the door interlock. This may since have been corrected but I imagine the yellow and black was considered to be a reasonably practicable mitigation of the hazard.
     
  7. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    You have to laugh at what very young children see. A little girl with the father at Manchester Airport railway station waiting to board a TPE service was heard to say..."Look Daddy, the train's got big teeth"...:D
     
  8. TheKnightWho

    TheKnightWho Established Member

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    I thought the same thing myself! They do look like a great big pair of jaws closing - it's quite fun to watch.
     
  9. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    ISTR that there was a similar design fault with the doors on LU Victoria line's 2009 stock. The short-term solution was the same.

    [​IMG]
    London Underground Victoria Line Train at Victoria Station (Southbound) London.
    by Man of Yorkshire, on Flickr
     
  10. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    I understand the reasons for it and they are fair enough, but you have to ask just what effect a yellow and black hazard sticker is going to have on that late-running passenger rushing down a platform as the guard prepares to close the doors and dispatch the train.....
     
  11. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    That's not really the reason for it, it's to cover the TOC as they can say in court they have taken positive steps to reduce the risk.

    It's like putting a sign on the roof saying 'warning low ceiling'. Surely you can see the low ceiling regardless of the sign but it's all about protecting from blame and claim.
     
  12. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    :roll:

    Its a visual response to the recent door trap incidents TPE have suffered. It also helps those with various visual impairment work out where the door edges are. It is also a practical and cheap way to reduce the risk of any litigation. But lets make sure safety doesn't clash with the livery eh?

    I am sure we have all done it.

    \They do look like teeth! I hope no one gets eaten!
     
  13. The Snap

    The Snap Established Member

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    You clearly don't travel in rush hour by train...:lol:
     
  14. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Probably exactly what they intended people to think.
     
  15. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    One thing I've identified as a possible problem is that the same closing tone is used whether the doors are closing automatically due to the timeout or because the train is about to depart. It would seem to me sensible to use a different tone for each case, as the meaning is different (one means "press the button and the doors will reopen", the other means "too late, stand clear"). I know there's the whistle, but that isn't universally used.

    Interesting that this modification (if you'd call it that) hasn't been applied to LM's Desiros nor SWT's, all of which presumably have the same design of door.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jun 2015
  16. Haydn1971

    Haydn1971 Established Member

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    It sounds like a cop out to me... The problem isn't that someone tried to catch the door (a natural human reaction), it's that the doors can't sense a trapped limb - it's all well and good railway staff saying you shouldn't do x, y and z - your dealing with someone who doesn't have safety training and possibly have more daily interaction with lift doors that do have some form of detection.
     
  17. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    That's actually a very good point. If it's the autoclose the doors will open again if you wave your arm, but if it's closing for departure they won't. It's easy to see how people get confused.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    One thing that might help would be for all guards to start using whistles where self-dispatching. Away from the Sarfeast this is surprisingly uncommon. That said, that might create a false expectation in the case of DOO services which could itself be dangerous ("there was no whistle so I assumed it wasn't going").

    Having said that, the whistle for most people is "hurry up", not "stand clear".
     
  19. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    I think it's one of those things that seems pointless but actually probably does have an effect. As a tall person I appreciate "mind your head" signs and such, it definitely does make me more aware and less likely to thud the top of my head.
     
  20. table38

    table38 Established Member

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    One thing I wondered about as I was rushing to catch a Pendolino (see rant elsewhere) was that if I pushed the door button just before the guard pressed the doors close, would the door still go through a full cycle, or would the step just come half-way out and then retract again?
     
  21. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

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    I see the point you're making, DarloRich, and I know that matching the livery is far less important. But regardless they do look incredibly tacky and cheapen the image of the trains overall. Not saying they shouldn't be there, just commenting!
     
  22. table38

    table38 Established Member

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    How about a hilarious recorded message like "the door is closing, please do not trap your arm, leg, boyfriends sweater, hopes and dreams or goldfish in the door" like they have in Pendolino toilets? That wouldn't become irritating at all <(
     
  23. doningtonphil

    doningtonphil Member

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    that reminds me of the episode of Only Fools and Horses where they all laughed at Trigger for always banging his head on a 'mind your head' sign. His defiant response... "well I couldn't read could I?"
     
  24. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    Excellent point!

    To go with that, I'd also like standard tones to be used across all stock - otherwise you'd doubtless end up with the tone used for auto-close on one stock being used to signal departure on some other stock. (Even though they are both from the Movia family, LU's 2009 stock and S stock have completely different door opening/closing alarms... why?!?!)
     
  25. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There is no similar "design fault" with 09 Stock. The 09 Stock has the opposite problem in that the "sensitive edge" (something installed by design) detects items stuck in the door that would ordinarily not be picked up on a conventional interlock system (such as flaps of a coat). This was causing quite significant delays with the service, so additional stickers were applied to ensure that customers keep all their items clear of the doors. The sensitive edge was also modified with an over-ride button within the cab and the system was modified to try and detect the difference between an item trapped from inside (where there is no hazard, other than a potentially dirty coat!), and something trapped outside (where there is a risk of being dragged along the outside of the train).
     
  26. Ediswan

    Ediswan Member

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    I have seen a child in buggy be pushed forward between already closing doors by a late arrival.
     
  27. gimmea50anyday

    gimmea50anyday Established Member

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    I have seen a bike be thrown onto a train i was despatching as the doors were closing, the individual then had to shoulder barge in order to get himself on board the train.

    He was refused travel. The cyclist would have had no idea who if anyone was standing in the doorway and they could so easily have been injured by his actions.
     
  28. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    'Similar' as in a problem with the door edge dectection of obstructions. It didn't seem relevant to this thread to into a blow-by-blow description of the issue, as the relevant point was the addition of the yellow warning stickers on the door edge. :roll:
     
  29. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Get a job where you have to deal with self loading freight and find out! ;)

    Passengers walking past 3or 4 closed doors because they don't want to press a button and then pushing some bodypart or other into a closing door is very common, unlike the sense of these people.

    Of course when it goes wrong it is never their fault. <D
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Of course sticking your hand in between the doors as they close is a very sensible thing to do isn't it!

    The (supposed) design flaw wouldn't be an issue if some passengers weren't so stupid, but of course the laws are there to protect the stupid!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    The door is closing regardless, of course the sensible option is to press the open button so the door opens again, but that seems beyond the wit of some people.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    So you consider sticking your hand into a closing door is sensible do you?
    Try it with a car/house/fridge/wardrobe/etc/etc door and see what happens. ;)

    Safety training is nothing to do with it.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    You need to at least add pushchair, child, bag, and bike to that list.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jun 2015
  30. Haydn1971

    Haydn1971 Established Member

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    Haha, I never said it was sensible.... It's a natural reaction though....

    Just as....


    And they do !

    A friend of mine used to finish turbine blades for Rolls Royce Trent engines - throw a bag of peanuts at him in the pub and he pulls his hands towards his chest to avoid them getting chopped off.... His natural reaction to handling sharp titanium blades ;)
     
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