Yellow ends

[D6975]

So new trains are still painted with them why then....?

headlight failure meant that a train couldn't move if it didn't have yellow panels

THAT'S WHY..


As an afterthought, is there a requirement for the yellow panel to be kept clean?
South Wales and Gateshead tractors frequently used to have nearly black ends due to regular dustings of coal and infrequent trips though the washer.

 

[Vulcan]

I'm sure I remember reading that the Heathrow Express 332s were delivered without yellow ends, using the arguement that they have high intensity heasdlights and it would be ok. Obviously it wasn't as they all have yellow ends now.

 

[ukrob]

I'm sure I remember reading that the Heathrow Express 332s were delivered without yellow ends, using the arguement that they have high intensity heasdlights and it would be ok. Obviously it wasn't as they all have yellow ends now.

That does sound familiar.

 

[MCR247]

Like that?
http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/heathrow/heathrow6.html

 

[Vulcan]

Yeah, I knew I didn't imagine it (always good news)

they look much better without yellow ends, IMO.

 

[Fincra5]

Really? I think they look really odd without the bit of yellow.

 

[At_traction]

they look much better without yellow ends, IMO.

I guess anything would do. A mandatory yellow front is not particularly adding anything visually pleasing, even though it is useful for its warning purpose and thus acceptable. Like a biker's or road/track worker's vest. Yellow is a rather clashing tone, after all.

But I myself still wouldn't remove the requirement for its use.

 

[LE Greys]

I guess anything would do. A mandatory yellow front is not particularly adding anything visually pleasing, even though it is useful for its warning purpose and thus acceptable. Like a biker's or road/track worker's vest. Yellow is a rather clashing tone, after all.

But I myself still wouldn't remove the requirement for its use.

Not necessarily, I've seen a modified version of a Deltic in blue without the yellow panel, and it looked hideous, bulbous and like a cheapo Lima model. Blue never suited the Deltics as much as green, but even green looked better with the yellow. Not sure why, it just did.

EDIT: Found a link

 

[sprinterguy]

The Deltics are just such massive looking locos that painting them in a vast swathe of BR Blue was just too much. It would have helped if there had been any other colour to break up the blue; That's where the green livery had benefits, with white window surrounds and light green lining. The livery matched the lines of the loco and made them look sleeker. Plus the small yellow warning panels were quite tastefully applied when they came along, instead of looking like the loco had just had its' nose ends dipped in a massive pot of yellow paint. I'm not keen on the retro BR green livery 55002 wore in it's last days of BR service with the full yellow warning panel, that managed to ruin the livery IMO.

Waiting for 87002 to pass Tamworth this morning, squinting into the distance, I noticed that the yellow warning panels on the front of all types of stock seem quite ineffectual. The main thing I noticed about an approaching train was the headlights, from a long distance away, and then the whole mass of the train, and only after that did the yellow warning panel become visible, by which time, if you happened to be anywhere near the track, it would be too late, as those Pendolinos and their ilk move at quite a pace.

 

[damian]

Didn't RAF Hawk Trainers change from red to black because, after extensive research, black was found to be the 'colour' which was easiest to spot? In which case the addition of a yellow patch on the front of the 332s was a retrograde step for safety as well as aesthetically

 

[LE Greys]

Didn't RAF Hawk Trainers change from red to black because, after extensive research, black was found to be the 'colour' which was easiest to spot? In which case the addition of a yellow patch on the front of the 332s was a retrograde step for safety as well as aesthetically

That's against a bright sky, where aircraft look black in silhouette anyway. The reverse reason is why a lot of WWII US aircraft were unpainted, polished metal, the reflective surfaces actually acted as camouflage (not to mention the removing the weight of the paint). At night, a black aircraft would be virtually invisible, but they carry lights anyway.

Silver only shows up in bright sunlight, when it is highly reflective. Yellow shows up in all daylight conditions, such as in a cutting on a cloudy day, when silver would look like mid grey and blend into the ballast. Black is no good against a dark background. There aren't all that many deep cuttings on the first section of the GWML, but there is the car park at Ealing, effectively a tunnel. The headlights are more useful there.

 

[At_traction]

Not necessarily, I've seen a modified version of a Deltic in blue without the yellow panel, and it looked hideous, bulbous and like a cheapo Lima model. Blue never suited the Deltics as much as green, but even green looked better with the yellow. Not sure why, it just did.

EDIT: Found a link

Funny how one's conditioned to a yellow-fronted Deltic - I almost started to look for evidence of photo manipulation!

But not nice at all, indeed. Massive and overbearing. Even the blue of the whole seems somehow lighter in tone than one is accustomed to. But the removal of yellow wouldn't have to lead to a monolithic smurf - areas of silver or white or streaks of the kind used around the world at the time of 55's introduction might have given the class a distinctive look all the same. (And I don't mean the prototype's chevrons...)

But, looking at my 55 model, the thing about the design indeed is the fact that it is a blue mass with its nose dipped into paint. Perhaps it's the black recta with the identification panel's "dots" that makes it a Deltic.

Silver only shows up in bright sunlight, when it is highly reflective.

In which case it would be visible only a few days a year in the UK weather...

The reverse reason is why a lot of WWII US aircraft were unpainted, polished metal, the reflective surfaces actually acted as camouflage (not to mention the removing the weight of the paint).
[...]
Silver only shows up in bright sunlight, when it is highly reflective. Yellow shows up in all daylight conditions, such as in a cutting on a cloudy day, when silver would look like mid grey and blend into the ballast.

Yep, thingy like this Mustang could "blend" into the sky if there is no sunlight to reflect off the metal surface. (Of course all high-viz identification stuff like the "D-Day stripes" go a bit against that, but at least today gray dullness is well implemented.)

 

[Burkitt]

Fictitious Liveries did a nice photoshop of an altered version of BR blue on a deltic, with a grey band along the lower body, which was apparently proposed for the real thing.
http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338596.html with Finsbury park white cab window surrounds and http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338594.html with a differently shaped yellow panel. It breaks up the wall of blue on the corporate image deltic, and might have improved a yellowless version.

Paul

 

[Electrostar]

Don't forget when the designers are designing the livery for a loco or unit, especially for brand new classes, they are taking the yellow warning panel into account. If the requirement wasn't there they'd probably incorporate the livery around the front end. NSE and SWT liveries with their cab-side swooshes might have looked very different.
The 332's are a classic example of the design being changed at the last minute when it was realised the unit needed warning panels. It was previously a billed as a sleek beast with a cab styled on a motorbike helmet. I remember seeing the original designs and being disappointed by the poor application of the yellow panels which looked like an after thought.

 

[At_traction]

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338594.html with a differently shaped yellow panel. It breaks up the wall of blue on the corporate image deltic, and might have improved a yellowless version.

This is not bad in the sense that the shape of the nose top/cockpit is unbroken in an American-style hump and the gray makes the loco look somewhat lighter (especially in terms of bulk).

And next an IC Swallow Deltic.

 

[sprinterguy]

The 332's are a classic example of the design being changed at the last minute when it was realised the unit needed warning panels. It was previously a billed as a sleek beast with a cab styled on a motorbike helmet. I remember seeing the original designs and being disappointed by the poor application of the yellow panels which looked like an after thought.

The yellow panels definitely were an afterthought: The stick-on yellow panels often don't meet the dimension criteria for yellow ends when the top sections on the bottom of the windscreen peel off: Very much a token gesture to appease the authorities.

 

[deltic1989]

regarding the Deltic photos they look awful in BR Blue anyway and taking the yellow end off just makes it worse i doubt that could look good even with Finsbury Park window surrounds. The BR Blue with the grey band however looks quite good it breaks up the bulkiness and like the two-tone green picks out the lines quite well. I also second the motion for someone to do a photo shop of a Deltic in IC livery as im curious to see how a Deltic would wear it.

 

[LE Greys]

regarding the Deltic photos they look awful in BR Blue anyway and taking the yellow end off just makes it worse i doubt that could look good even with Finsbury Park window surrounds. The BR Blue with the grey band however looks quite good it breaks up the bulkiness and like the two-tone green picks out the lines quite well. I also second the motion for someone to do a photo shop of a Deltic in IC livery as im curious to see how a Deltic would wear it.

Our friend Owen already has, although I would like to see it from a different angle (ideally with a matched rake of coaches behind). Anyone who wants to do Swallow is welcome to try (I've never tried it, so I won't).

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338577.html

 

[At_traction]

Our friend Owen already has, although I would like to see it from a different angle (ideally with a matched rake of coaches behind). Anyone who wants to do Swallow is welcome to try (I've never tried it, so I won't).

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338577.html

D*rn. The yellow end is in this one the 55's worst enemy. Pity.

 

[43067]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Greys
Our friend Owen already has, although I would like to see it from a different angle (ideally with a matched rake of coaches behind). Anyone who wants to do Swallow is welcome to try (I've never tried it, so I won't).

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338577.html

How about in Grand Central Mk 2 livery that would be an interesting one?

 

[deltic1989]

Our friend Owen already has, although I would like to see it from a different angle (ideally with a matched rake of coaches behind). Anyone who wants to do Swallow is welcome to try (I've never tried it, so I won't).

http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p16338577.html

That does look pretty neat, its sets off the lines perfectly. Such a shame Deltics never survived in service to see it. More on topic the yellow panel on that example could be cut down and wrapped round like it was on some 47's and still look fairly good.

 

[buses7675]

Hi All,

With yellow ends in mind, I wonder what the plan is for the ICE3 that DB are sending through the tunnel in October? Is HS1 covered by the same rules (regarding yellow ends) as the rest of network rail?

IIRC everything so far that has been on HS1 since it was opened, even the Eurotunnel locos on Eurostar drags, have had yellow ends. It could be quite unusual to see an ICE with a yellow front if it had to have one!

Cheers

buses7675

 

[jopsuk]

The eurotunnel rescue locos is an interesting one- they must be the only rolling stock so fa to operate on HS1 that's not been cleared for running on the "classic" network? They're European locos, so presumably wouldn't be able to leave the system?