Yellow Peril

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by GH 12 34, 14 Mar 2019 at 18:49.

  1. GH 12 34

    GH 12 34 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    9 Mar 2019
    Anyone Know....

    Three Banner Repeater lookalike symbols, one Horizontal, one Diagonal, one Vertical.

    If they referred to Banner Repeaters then there wouldn't be the Vertical.

    Anyone know what these three symbols refer to pls?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Ben.A.98

    Ben.A.98 Member

    Messages:
    193
    Joined:
    13 Feb 2013
    I don't have a copy of a yellow peril to reference to at hand, but my immediate thoughts are that it is a three state banner repeater,
    1. Arm horizontal - signal on
    2. Arm diagonal - signal showing yellow
    3. Arm diagonal and banner lit green vice white - signal showing green

    Looking at Aviemore by any chance?
     
  4. GH 12 34

    GH 12 34 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    9 Mar 2019
    Thanks.

    I thought that myself, but a three state banner repeater doesn't have a vertical position. It's a drawing.
     
  5. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Its known as the 'screwhead' symbol.

    Signals have :

    Symbol
    Prefix
    Number
    Suffix

    The symbol for a three stage banner is a White circle with a black stripe down the middle. The symbols used in the table A diagrams, NR route diagrams, local route maps tend to reflect the signal symbol or have a linked key.

    If you have a picture it would be helpful :)
     
    Last edited: 14 Mar 2019 at 19:20
  6. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Correct answer below.
     
    Last edited: 14 Mar 2019 at 19:56
  7. GH 12 34

    GH 12 34 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    9 Mar 2019

    Cheers me Dears !!
     
  8. Jonfun

    Jonfun Established Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    16 Mar 2007
    Location:
    North West
    I don't have one to hand to check, but is it not signal aspects? Ie circle with horizontal bar the red aspect, yellow aspect circle with diagonal, green with vertical? So a three aspect main signal would be three circles with horizontal on the bottom, a diagonal above, vertical on top?
     
  9. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    I know the exact ones you mean !! Can't find the other map with them on :/
     
  10. Jonfun

    Jonfun Established Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    16 Mar 2007
    Location:
    North West
    I had a yellow peril lying around but I threw it out the other day, it sounds like what the OP's asking but without seeing a pic I couldn't confirm.
     
  11. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Na, from your description I know exactly what you mean. For the life of me I can't find any old maps. All mine are the more modern ones. I haven't seen a yellow peril for years. I wish I could remember the bloody map I have with the signal symbols on. Table A doesn't have signals and my signal map ( the one posted) is very modern. My personal maps are all coloured now.

    Its gonna bug me all evening but I am sure what the OP wants is your answer :)
     
    Last edited: 14 Mar 2019 at 19:50
  12. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    2019-03-14 19.47.11.jpg
    Found one \o/
     
  13. GH 12 34

    GH 12 34 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    9 Mar 2019
  14. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    The real thanks goes to Jonfun for providing the correct answer. It's hard to go off a description and a picture truly says a thousand words.

    http://www.railsigns.uk/sect9page3/sect9page3.html

    Bottom of the page is the signal plate indication for the three stage banner.
     
  15. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

    Messages:
    1,790
    Joined:
    14 Sep 2014
    Location:
    Gateway to the South West
    Depending on the drawing and the physical item 'on the ground', the three circles could be superimposed (so, on the plan, looking like an incomplete star in a circle) for those signals where the three colours all show in the same aspect (not all at once, obviously!). You probably know that; just some extra info for those that don't.
     
  16. K.o.R

    K.o.R Member

    Messages:
    324
    Joined:
    6 Dec 2017
    Aren't the different directions of lines in case the diagram is printed in greyscale?
     
  17. Jonfun

    Jonfun Established Member

    Messages:
    1,212
    Joined:
    16 Mar 2007
    Location:
    North West
    Yeah.
     
  18. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

    Messages:
    1,861
    Joined:
    10 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Walking distance to CLS
  19. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    Well yes, and that site was already linked a few posts back.

    But I thought it was clear from the first question and the thread title that the question was about a pictorial representation on a yellow peril drawing, not what the prototype looks like, or the symbol on its supporting post. Railsigns doesn’t actually cover that type of detail for use on a typical schematic drawing.
     
  20. swills

    swills Established Member

    Messages:
    1,594
    Joined:
    15 Jan 2008
    Standard 4 aspect signal ?
     
  21. 68000

    68000 Member

    Messages:
    550
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2008
    Well I am confused
     
  22. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    The OP described the way a 3 aspect signal is drawn on a track plan. But later, in post #11, a coloured version of a four aspect signal was presented in explanation. But when drawn in black and white these signal symbols, consisting of 2, 3 or 4 circles in a row, use the position of the lines to denote the possible colours of the signal.
     
  23. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    The pic I posted is a 4 aspect and was taken from the London Bridge project booklet

    The one below is pulled from the tinterweb and shows a 3 aspect/black and white diagram.

    plan.gif


    4, 3 and 2 aspect. Banners, distants, autos and controlled signals

    Screenshot (46)_LI.jpg
     
  24. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

    Messages:
    4,942
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2005
    Green in the middle, yellow on top! Is it related to British signalling or elsewhere?
     
  25. 30907

    30907 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,983
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2012
    Location:
    Airedale
    Is a Yellow Peril one of those resignalling diagrams with a yellow cover?

    If so, they use(d) standard signalling diagram conventions for c/l signals (and for semaphores).

    @Tomnick it's not correct for UK practice (you can have YGY though).
     
  26. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

    Messages:
    4,942
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2005
    I perhaps should have asked whether it’s supposed to represent UK practice ;) . I’m just curious whether that arrangement’s actually used somewhere else in the world, or whether it’s just a pretty fundamental error on the part of whoever drew the diagram.
     
  27. K.o.R

    K.o.R Member

    Messages:
    324
    Joined:
    6 Dec 2017
    So, to recap:

    OP had a track diagram with some markers representing signals, similar to the one in #11, and was wondering what the specific parts of them meant.

    As it turns out, they show a colour light signal, and use directional lines as well as colours to distinguish the different colour lamps.

    Is the item mentioned in #13 actually relevant to the answer? Or was it an aside showing how there could be a "vertical" position banner repeater, at least in sign form, if not as an actual signal?
     
  28. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    It's just a map I pulled from the place we call home. It was from a research site about interlocking and just a diagrammatic example. With the advent of LEDs I barely pay attention any more as to what position the pretty lights are in. We have single heads that show all aspects :/ As pdeaves states. They could be superimposed, although I think that would be confusing.*edit* I found one in a document from 1988

    On the Up Mid Kent at Clock House on the bottom diagram the signal shows as a 3 aspect. The actual signal 'on the ground' is a single head LED, capable of showing a 3 aspect sequence. I see three little circles to represent the sequence and instantly understand what can be shown. If I see 4 little circles I understand it as a 4 aspect. For me, that's all that matters when I look at the map. I have never really understood it to represent what is actually 'on the ground' just a pictogram/ideogram/icon to represent the signal.

    The 'transition signals' that can show both a 3 or 4 aspect sequence aren't represented differently. Limit of shunts aren't represented differently or at least I can't figure it out because it's inconsistent (number of dots ?)

    You should see the signal map of London Bridge o_O
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2019 at 00:10
  29. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Yes. #11 is what the answer to the OP was.

    As I understand it. The number of circles is the sequence (2/3/4 aspect) The lines don't show exact position but represent what is possible to be seen at that signal. LEDs have removed any representation of actual signal/light position. It probably did but you would need a technical expert or historian for that precise information.
    Answer in the document linked below.

    Yes. #2 thought it could be a 3 stage banner and then the OP thought that a vertical line wouldn't be possible. However, they are represented as a vertical line on the signal plates so could.. be represented like that on a diagram. Annoyingly we don't have any three stages on our patch so I don't have any maps with them on to actually see how they are represented on a signal diagram. My map in #22 does show banners but none are three stage ones.

    I challenge you to find a Network Rail map that doesn't contain errors :)
     
    Last edited: 16 Mar 2019 at 00:09
  30. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,024
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
  31. Supercoss

    Supercoss Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    5 Jun 2016
    When the idea of ‘ 3 state’ banner repeaters was first mooted the vertical line was to be the 3rd state
    1 horizontal ‘on’ danger aspect ahead
    2 45 degrees ‘off’ yellow or double yellow aspect ahead

    3 vertical off signal green aspect ahead
    The vertical line was not used instead green backlit option chosen
    ‘Screw head’ Symbol used on ID plates


    upload_2019-3-16_16-33-5.jpeg
     

Share This Page