Yet another violent assault!

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by 170401, 1 Jun 2015.

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  1. 170401

    170401 Member

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  2. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Disgusting.

    One point, presumably this wouldn't have been a conductor, but a travelling ticket examiner, as I think I'm right in saying the Largs route would be a class 380 operating under the Strathclyde Manning Agreement setup?

    When on holiday in Glasgow last year, must agree how utterly awful some of the clientele is on that particular route, along with some other Glasgow suburban routes. Balloch was another eye-opener.

    Hope the offender gets the book thrown at him good and proper.
     
  3. GodAtum

    GodAtum Established Member

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    I cant beleive it happened during daytime? Are they afraid of seeing seen by everyone??
     
  4. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    Not if, for example, on drugs or drink or both.
     
  5. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Whilst in conversation with one of the travelling ticket inspectors, I was told there are some major alcohol and drugs issues in some of the coastal towns/villages in the areas in question. He said the Largs and Ardrossan lines were the worst, along with Wemyss Bay, Balloch and a few others.

    Sometimes villages and small towns can be the worst - Aylesham on the Faversham-Dover line is a hell-hole, and some of the small stations on the Colchester-Clacton line also seem to produce some extremely unsavoury clientele. What is annoying is that this is something which must be known about by 'the powers that be' - you wouldn't have to spend long at Aylesham station on a Saturday night before seeing someone on the track, intent on not paying their fare, or otherwise up to no good, yet nothing seems to be done about the situation. As usual it's the train staff at the sharp end who are on their own and have to make the best of the situation.
     
    Last edited: 1 Jun 2015
  6. Hyphen

    Hyphen Member

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    Quoted from the article, for the benefit of those unable to click links (or spend data)...

     
    Last edited: 1 Jun 2015
  7. 380gk

    380gk Member

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    This was a ticket examiner, not a guard
    However, Ayr guards also sign this route (on paper) by means of route retention.
     
  8. Harry Roberts

    Harry Roberts New Member

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    The Balloch line trumps the lot. I used to hate working it. You would encounter the absolute dregs of humanity on a daily basis. It didn't matter if it was a Monday afternoon or a Saturday night - the drug addicts, alcoholics and thugs from Renton and Alexandria would always be out in force making TE's lives a misery with no help from the BTP.

    I hope the TE makes a full and speedy recovery.
     
  9. ayrshire_voyager

    ayrshire_voyager Member

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    As much as I criticise Scotrail and Network Rail for appalling capacity management and line management on this line, I will very rarely criticise the brave men and women who operate as TE's on the ayrshire lines.

    The amount of human detritus that frequents these lines is a sight to behold, a white underclass (this isnt meant to be racist but its factual). I see them all the time 2-3 junkie/jaikie types board a train run to the toilet then hide. Then have a confrontation with said TE.

    Or they are out of their faces and refuse to pay for a ticket, I guess barrier control at every station may help, but this is a deep rooted societal problem that is endemic in the West of Scotland. ( Try a train from Ayr after the hordes have descended to the beach)...
     
  10. dgl

    dgl Member

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    A hardbound copy of the complete works of Shakespeare perhaps?
     
  11. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    What are the charges? Hopefully attempted murder ( or its Scottish legal equivalent).
     
  12. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Highly unlikely, if the person is caught (unlikely) and charged (even more unlikely) I am sure the defence lawyer will make a compelling case about how this poor unfortunate has fallen on hard times, struggling to find work, is really a very nice person, this was totally out of character, they only carry the knife for protection etc and the Judge (in accordance with sentencing guidelines set up to keep the workers in check) will let them of with community service (which they wont do) they will then walk out of Court laughing and flick 2 fingers to the 'justice' system just like they have done the last 20 times they have been in Court.

    Me, cynical, never! ;)
     
  13. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Really? An attempted murder, and the focus of some people is "he's actually a ticket inspector and not a conductor"? Some people need to get their priorities sorted...

    I can't see why this wouldn't be an attempted murder charge (I'm pretty sure that is the term in Scotland), except in the unlikely event that one of the victims dies as a result of the injuries sustained, but it doesn't read that way. I certainly hope that an attempted murder charge is brought forward by the fiscals.

    I'm always appalled at the behaviour of some members of society, and it disturbs me that someone would have the gall to behave in this manner, particularly on a Sunday daytime when the train would likely have been busy (not that it would be acceptable at any time, of course). It must have been terrifying to be on that train, and I hope that all victims and other passengers make a speedy recovery.
     
  14. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Er...

    ;)
     
  15. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    They have been caught and there are definitely witnesses. This case will undoubtedly be heard at a sitting of the High Court of the Justiciary. They won't get away with it.
     
  16. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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  17. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I really don't see what the problem is with somebody pointing out that he was a ticket inspector and not a guard, anyway I'm sure we all wish him a full and speedy recovery.

    I have been on Ayr to Glasgow services on a summer evening and a regular BTP presence certainly wouldn't go amiss, I use trains in the London area regularly and have never seen anything as bad as on that line.
     
  18. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    Unfortunately, drugs and alcohol have the effect of relieving inhibitions. On the one hand it means that any deterrent is lost, but on the other hand it doesn't relieve the perpetrator of culpability, as it is merely releasing the person's uninhibited character. It is unfortunate though to be on the receiving end (ouch!).
     
  19. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    It doesn't help that we get told time and time again that we have a "duty of care" to these individuals...
     
  20. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Especially when they apparently have no duty of care for themselves let alone anybody else!
     
  21. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Of course, whilst drugs and alcohol will impair your cognition, it is no excuse. For illegal substances, well that's a crime in itself. For legal substances, you still have a responsibility to others in society and taking an intoxicating substance does not change that fact. They are still culpable and, if I was on a jury, I would frankly ignore any pleas from the accused that they were "acting under the influence of alcohol/other psychoactive substance". You're still responsible for your actions.

    In these cases, I strongly believe that mandatory rehabilitation should be a part of the sentence handed down.

    We do have a "duty of care" to those in prison. Prison should be about rehabilitation as much as it is about punishment. The reality is that most people in prison will be returned to society, and if we have not rehabilitated them then all we've achieved is locking them in big building with violent criminals. And when they get out, they'll do it again.

    Many people despise the idea of rehabilitating criminals as it is seen to benefit the criminals. In fact, it benefits society as a whole by preventing them from committing further crimes in the future, and as such making society safer for everyone.
     
  22. HilversumNS

    HilversumNS Member

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    The problem there is that the re-offending rate is so high, it appears that rehabilitation doesn't work.
     
  23. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    It could be argued that it's because the rehab on offer isn't sufficient.

    Again, I'm wary that I'm dragging this off to a tangent, so I'm not going to say too much more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3 Jun 2015
  24. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    You've hit the nail on the head!!
     
  25. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Member

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    More than likely will be the High Court. Just carrying a knife up here and getting caught carries a sentence.

    Thoughts are with the victims and I hope they make a speedy recovery.
     
  26. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    We've discussed the death penalty before on this forum (see here and here for some examples) so the discussion is welcome. However, this thread is about a specific incident and discussing the death penalty in general is not appropriate on this thread.

    Therefore I would ask that anyone who wishes to discuss whether or not the UK should re-introduce the death penalty or the morals of doing so that they start a new thread in General Discussion.

    This thread should only be used for discussing the attack on a Ticket Examiner in the Glasgow area.
     
  27. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    The ones in prison are not my problem. It's the ones getting on my train that are my problem.

    And I still resent that if they of their own free will have got themselves in a condition where they are incapable of behaving in a civilised manner, I can lose my job and my liberty if something happens to them.

    I'm not their mother, carer or social worker.
     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2015
  28. 380gk

    380gk Member

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    Actually, I think it matters a lot to the story whether he was a TE or a guard, although there is no excuse for anyone to behave in that manner to any member of staff or fellow passenger.

    TEs have commercial responsibilities only and, as a rule, get the book thrown at them if there are instances of them having hid in the back cab and a fight kicks off in the saloon (although I'm of the opinion they're ticket sellers not bouncers).

    TE is a more visible grade, and as a result, the grade that bears the brunt of attacks and also the grade that gets a lot of abuse, ranging from backchat to physical assault. I hope this highlights the need for improved security on our trains.

    It's unusual for this assault to be in the afternoon, usually you're looking at evenings when it kicks off on the coast routes. As a starting point, it would be a good idea to have as many last trains as possible with two members of staff on it (particularly on the weekend) to help staff security. But I appreciate this costs money.
     
  29. gingerheid

    gingerheid Member

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    My former local line. I remember when it used to be used by people going to work as opposed to jakies going to their appointments or court. The area is completely disintegrating; I had the misfortune to take ill when I was back home and end up in hospital; which was a running battlezone of all the same delightful characters all night night after night.

    I'd be fully in favour of giving them all a nice mental hospital to live in and providing them with as much alcohol and drugs as they like. The problem would quickly resolve itself.
     
  30. herschell

    herschell Member

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    Would some "dry trains" solve some of the problem?
     
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