York Station revenue block

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jb

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There's no reason to keep a dispute going if the traveller insists the ticket is valid. Take details of the ticket (withdraw if necessary) and get name & address. It should be that simple, but I guess some people like to abuse the power they have.

I agree that some people definitely abuse their power, but by the same token I'm not sure it can be quite that simple. I think a system where obviously invalid tickets are dealt with on a "name and address" basis would be horrendously inefficient. So it then of course becomes a question of what is "obvious" (and at some level we're back to employee competence and knowledge, after all).

"I will check" is clearly better than "this isn't valid". But there's a line to be drawn somewhere and things aren't quite as clear cut as they might seem.
 
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barrykas

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Being charitable, I'd suggest yet another case of training issues. Most of the RPIs I know (curiously mainly ex-WAGN or Thameslink) work on two principles: "If you're not sure whether a ticket's valid, ask for a second opinion where possible" and "If you're still not sure, don't mark it, and carry on."
 

09065

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Has anyone ever *had* to call the police on RJ?

Oh no..... http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=81812

Did we give up on "Innocent until proven guilty" at some point? Police involvement does not mean someone has committed a crime.

Apparently the RPO at York was guilty of singling out RJ based on previous confrontations.

Someone who is in uniform, easily identifiable and polite in their manner is a very easy target. Much easier than an aggressive drunk or abusive person, especially when there aren't any police around. The TPE RPO knew exactly who I was. This is a person who previous stated that he would report me, that I would get a criminal record and never work for the railways again. Given I lodged a formal complaint which saw him spoken to and me compensated for his errant actions, I would not put it past him to try his hardest to catch me out. Given that as I say, I invariably travel within the rules at all times, he is wasting his time.

Oh please, now you are just getting a little paranoid that every is out to get you because you are a railway worker in railway uniform.

This comment in isolation is accurate but in context absolutely outrageous. Given that RJ appears to have neither done nothing wrong nor indeed were the police involved why would you make this assertion?

I was referring to the fact that he had encounterd railway staff calling out the police because of him on a recently previous occasion.
 
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Wolfie

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Oh no..... I was referring to the fact that he had encounterd railway staff calling out the police because of him on a recently previous occasion.

That I know and from all that has been seen on here they were wrong to do so! Was he arrested? No!

Frankly as an ordinary passenger what I see on here means that I have grave doubts about trusting anything rail staff members say.
 

RJ

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Oh please, now you are just getting a little paranoid that every is out to get you because you are a railway worker in railway uniform.

I don't understand what your game is, so would appreciate if you could lay it out in simple terms that I and others can easily understand.

It's not uncommon for people to be sceptical of some elements of my accounts and ask questions. That is something I don't have a problem with and will happily address those as I have done numerous times in the past. You are unique in drawing inferences that cannot reasonably be drawn from what I post and providing your opinions based things that categorically did not happen. This mentality mystifies me!
 
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Deerfold

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wijit

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I'd be lying if I said I understand how ticketing works. But I do know how blame (in law) and human behaviour works, especially on a colleague basis.
It concerns me (as a non-railway worker) that there is so much ignorance as to what constitutes a valid ticket. It concerns me even more that there are those on here (09065) who seem intent on ignoring the subject matter and placing opinion in front of the facts as presented. For instance; Faced with someone who holds a ticket you are not familiar with, but turns out to be valid, why on Earth would you do anything other than let that passenger continue? You seem to advocate looking for excuses for incredibly poor customer relation behaviour than looking at the fact that the traveller had done nothing wrong!
However, one thing which is almost unbelievable, is the comment from sarahj. Putting aside your use of "gonna" (I'm working on a fair assumption that you are older than 14) What sort of view could you possibly have that you "have a view on this which cannot be shown in a public forum"? Why not? This looks less than a logical statement, as surely you can only have a view which is concurrent with the regulations by which you must stand? You then say "Come on my train and you will see what my view is". Your view is, as it should be, that you will abide by the same rules you expect passengers to abide by.
Between the two of you, you epitomise the very problems RJ faces. You clearly object to his method of ticket use, but to just brush aside the validity of those tickets and concentrate on "us v. him" is rather pathetic. Perhaps if more staff were educated these issues would not arise so easily.
One very simple question; Did he hold a valid ticket? Yes, from what we have been told there is no reason to doubt it. That should be the end of the matter.
 

bb21

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I think sarahj was expressing disapproval of the RPI's (staff at York, not the forum member) actions, not RJ's.
 

RJ

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I'd be lying if I said I understand how ticketing works. But I do know how blame (in law) and human behaviour works, especially on a colleague basis.
It concerns me (as a non-railway worker) that there is so much ignorance as to what constitutes a valid ticket. It concerns me even more that there are those on here (09065) who seem intent on ignoring the subject matter and placing opinion in front of the facts as presented. For instance; Faced with someone who holds a ticket you are not familiar with, but turns out to be valid, why on Earth would you do anything other than let that passenger continue? You seem to advocate looking for excuses for incredibly poor customer relation behaviour than looking at the fact that the traveller had done nothing wrong!
However, one thing which is almost unbelievable, is the comment from sarahj. Putting aside your use of "gonna" (I'm working on a fair assumption that you are older than 14) What sort of view could you possibly have that you "have a view on this which cannot be shown in a public forum"? Why not? This looks less than a logical statement, as surely you can only have a view which is concurrent with the regulations by which you must stand? You then say "Come on my train and you will see what my view is". Your view is, as it should be, that you will abide by the same rules you expect passengers to abide by.
Between the two of you, you epitomise the very problems RJ faces. You clearly object to his method of ticket use, but to just brush aside the validity of those tickets and concentrate on "us v. him" is rather pathetic. Perhaps if more staff were educated these issues would not arise so easily.
One very simple question; Did he hold a valid ticket? Yes, from what we have been told there is no reason to doubt it. That should be the end of the matter.

I must defend sarahj here - in the past the nature of her posts have demonstrated that she provides excellent customer service and I have a great deal of respect for her for coming on here and asking questions about tickets. In this case, I agree with bb21 in that she was expressing disapproval for the RPI's actions on the day and was actually saying that she would be much more hospitable if I was travelling on her train.

That said, I agree with the principle of your post. I can certainly understand a mentality of "I am not familiar with that ticket, so I'm not going to say it is valid." I cannot support the alarmingly common mentality that follows of "I'm going to make you wait indefinitely whilst I ask someone else who may more may not know and I don't care if you miss your train," or "I'm going to commit you to a debt of the full fare and you can appeal if I have gotten it wrong."

I don't wish to see the vilification of ticket inspection staff - but the fact is, the actions of some let down the rest who do prioritise safety - their own and that of other passengers - and customer service over satiety derived from exercising the full extent of powers bestowed upon them. I've had to remind some revenue protection staff that they are customer service staff when they address me as if I'm something they stepped in. They never seem to like that - although it is usually effective in seeing an immediate change in attitude!
 

wensley

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I wasn't there this weekend, so I can't comment on the circumstances, this does sound like you haven't been treat at all well. The barriers at York are a semi-permanent effort between BTP and the TOCs to tackle alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour which has been a major issue out of York. As I see it the main aim is to ensure that passengers are safe to travel, and there is a customer services element to answering questions, trying to give platform info and providing visible reassurance form normal travellers in the middle of the drunken hordes! Revenue is the means of stopping passengers, assessing if they're OK to travel, and the cash generated helps the TOCs fund their staff attending and sends out a message to those travelling at weekends for nights out etc. that they can't get away with not having a ticket. In my experience, if you're not sure (which can be the case with various TOC tickets), ask...speeds the job up and keeps everyone happy ;)
 
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