York Station Saturday Night Clownocracy

[yorksrob]

Had a day in York and ended up in the Tap as expected. Come Saturday night discovered that I was not allowed to buy a beer for the train home.

I was told laughably that as this is a dry station on Saturday night, I am not allowed to purchase a beer anyway.

Not to worry. Next time I will be sure to bring my own to avoid this cretonous stupidity.

 

[IKB]

Next time I will be sure to bring my own to avoid this cretonous stupidity.

I suspect the policy is in place due to the "cretinous stupidity" of drunken louts. The actions of the few impacting on the majority.

Perhaps there is prior history of drunks causing problems at that location on a Saturday night or on departing trains.

The BTP are a thin resource at the best of times. You could argue it reduces another source of demand at night time. Prudent problem solving.

 

[yorksrob]

Then arrest the drunk and disorderly. I fail to see what this has to do with me buying a beer for the train home.

 

[DaleCooper]

They probably do it to prevent tautology.

 

[Domh245]

Then arrest the drunk and disorderly. I fail to see what this has to do with me buying a beer for the train home.

Not sure if you missed a key phrase there

The BTP are a thin resource at the best of times. You could argue it reduces another source of demand at night time. Prudent problem solving.

Where do you expect them to find the manpower to arrest the drunk and disorderly - let alone the cells to keep them in?

 

[IKB]

Then arrest the drunk and disorderly.

Read my last line.

 

[DelayRepay]

There was a thread on here, perhaps a year or so ago, detailing major problems at York and on the Saturday night trains in the area due to drunkenness. I guess not selling beer on the station is a measure put in place to ensure the situation is not made worse.

 

[Andyh82]

Never understood why when boarding a train people feel the need to crack open the beers.

It's not a pub, it's public transport.

 

[yorksrob]

I've been using York station on Saturday nights for years now and haven't found any problems impeding my way, just Like Leeds station which serves more people and manages to get by without this stupidity.

 

[IKB]

I've been using York station on Saturday nights for years now and haven't found any problems impeding my way, just Like Leeds station which serves more people and manages to get by without this stupidity.

No you might not have found any problems impeding your way, but I doubt you're there every Saturday night or see what grief the onboard or platform staff have to put up with.

In London the BTP 'neighbourhood' teams at major termini only do earlies and lates. A 999 response team provide the night cover and cover vast mileages with a relatively small number of officers. I suspect they operate a similar set up further north. Locking up for Drunk and Dis is a resource drain when they're already very thin on the ground.

 

[theblackwatch]

Perhaps if the Railway Byelaws were upheld, the staff wouldn't have to put up with grief.

 

[yorksrob]

Yet I am sitting in Leeds (after a boring journey which, somewhat disappointingly wasn't like Sodem and Gommorah) which manages to keep order without draconian nonsense. I wonder how they manage it !

 

[EM2]

At my very quiet station, BTP have dealt with four people so far this week, and each incident ties them up for some considerable time.
As an example, one person was arrested at about 00:40 earlier in the week, and the officers involved didn't clock off until 05:00.
So, any measure which can reduce the time that they are away from stations, and can continue to provide reassurance and a deterrent is surely a good thing?

 

[IKB]

At my very quiet station, BTP have dealt with four people so far this week, and each incident ties them up for some considerable time.
As an example, one person was arrested at about 00:40 earlier in the week, and the officers involved didn't clock off until 05:00.
So, any measure which can reduce the time that they are away from stations, and can continue to provide reassurance and a deterrent is surely a good thing?

Precisely. ^

 

[Esmenfif]

Why must one engage in vice whilst one is travelling in a public train (or waiting for a train in a public station)? Perhaps one might take into account that other passengers do not want to endure the pain of seeing poor souls drowning their sorrows in intoxicating substances.

A glass of water should suffice.

 

[rg177]

To be honest neither York nor Leeds stations were particularly civil when I used them 2 weeks ago on a Saturday night, this was 2100-2130 at Leeds and 2200-2210 at York.

Witnessed a hoard of drunk blokes prising the ticket gates open at Leeds and we had a number of incidents involving BTP on the concourse, but honestly I don't think a dry station would help, what you need is a hell of a lot more staff making sure that people are staying in order, rather simply cracking open a beer. While both would be preferable, i'd rather I had multiple staff members keeping an eye out and getting to those causing issue rather than simply stopping people from drinking as chances are that the problematic passengers are going to be intoxicated before boarding.

At York, quite frankly, I didn't notice a difference, everyone going on like morons which made me all the more glad i'd paid the extra £4 for First Class...

 

[yorksrob]

Why must one engage in vice whilst one is travelling in a public train (or waiting for a train in a public station)? Perhaps one might take into account that other passengers do not want to endure the pain of seeing poor souls drowning their sorrows in intoxicating substances.

A glass of water should suffice.

Ale has been part of the warp and weft of British life for centuries. I find it disappointing that people should accept the newfangled Puritanical/Victorian affectation that the ale of our forefathers is somehow a 'vice'.

 

[planetf1]

Unfortunately whilst for many a peaceful drink is a welcome enjoyment on the journey home sadly there's a small minority where it just leads to anything from minor nuisance to serious trouble.

I certainly enjoy a few beers. I don't tend to when on trains but no problem with those that do..

The authorities are just taking a pragmatic approach. Tricky to know what they could do better. If you have any ideas on site they'd love to see a Proposal?


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[yorksrob]

Unfortunately whilst for many a peaceful drink is a welcome enjoyment on the journey home sadly there's a small minority where it just leads to anything from minor nuisance to serious trouble.

I certainly enjoy a few beers. I don't tend to when on trains but no problem with those that do..

The authorities are just taking a pragmatic approach. Tricky to know what they could do better. If you have any ideas on site they'd love to see a Proposal?


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Just do what Leeds does !

 

[Hadders]

I caught a train from Carlisle to Newcastle this afternoon. Plenty of people getting on at the intermediate stations for an evening out in Newcastle. On approach to Newcastle the Train Manager assertively announced the time of the last train back to Carlisle and reminded passengers that alcohol was not allowed on it and that BTP would be on-board to enforce it.

Of course on the DOO trains in GTR-land we're just left to get on with it on the late night 'P**s head express' services.

 

[Mugby]

Never understood why when boarding a train people feel the need to crack open the beers.

It's not a pub, it's public transport.

1, Boredom.
2, We're a nation of p**sheads!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

To be fair I wasn't aware that York was a dry station, however the 21:4x VTEC to Doncaster is a dry train from Newcastle and has been declared such for some time. This is to prevent and limit anti social behaviour on board. I do believe the 20:30 TPE to Middlesbrough, the last VTEC to Newcastle and the GC to sunderland are also classified dry and they are often well controlled with BTP and rentabouncers policing it on board and on the platforms.

Having worked the last Middlesbrough service myself I have to agree with declaring the trains dry. Declaring the station dry too ay seem draconian, but it may well be easier to monitor and police that way and prevent people who are about to lose their booze from binge drinking it before boarding which could put them in a worse state which in turn could be a danger to themselves.

 

[Esmenfif]

Ale has been part of the warp and weft of British life for centuries. I find it disappointing that people should accept the newfangled Puritanical/Victorian affectation that the ale of our forefathers is somehow a 'vice'.

In ages past, men drank ale merely because water was often impure. As we've got pure water, ale is unnecessary, rendering its consumption a vice.

One must also consider these specific circumstances, whereby such substances cause nothing but a nuisance for the vast majority of upstanding passengers on trains and in stations. There is no justification for drinking of this sort in public trains and stations.

 

[Robertj21a]

Ale has been part of the warp and weft of British life for centuries. I find it disappointing that people should accept the newfangled Puritanical/Victorian affectation that the ale of our forefathers is somehow a 'vice'.

Well, until more of the UK population become mature enough to understand that they don't need to get drunk, then I'm not surprised that many of us feel it has become a vice. Self-inflicted by far too many who should know better.

 

[sprinterguy]

Never understood why when boarding a train people feel the need to crack open the beers.

It's not a pub, it's public transport.

Travelling by train offers passengers the opportunity to relax while somebody else is in charge of getting them to their destination, and alcohol has been a popular relaxant in most civilised societies for centuries, if not millennia. It also helps to relieve the tedium of long journeys.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I spent a night in York as part of my holiday a couple of years ago. Lying on my bed in my hotel room in the early evening, I heard the sounds of what sounded like a full-scale riot in the streets outside.
Venturing outside, I found that this was basically correct - the 'yoof' of York (and I suspect the countryside for miles around) disporting themselves on a Friday night. Broken glass underfoot everywhere, blokes arguing with their girlfriends, females slapping each other about, even a guy chucking a woman's crutches at her in the kebab shop.
I don't know about GB as a whole, but York has a serious problem with the booze...

 

[sprinterguy]

Why must one engage in vice whilst one is travelling in a public train (or waiting for a train in a public station)? Perhaps one might take into account that other passengers do not want to endure the pain of seeing poor souls drowning their sorrows in intoxicating substances.

Gods forbid that the delicate flowers of todays' society might actually witness other individuals actively enjoying themselves: I don't believe that the majority of people who drink alcohol, and do so responsibly and generally with regard for their own behaviour, do so in order to "drown their sorrows" - they do so in order to relax, and often to be sociable in group situations as alcohol consumption is an accepted norm.

I believe that a popular marketing slogan for British Rail some years ago was "let the train take the strain", which insinuated that passengers should have the freedom to relax, and perhaps even enjoy themselves during their journey while somebody else took responsibility for getting them to their destination, which does not exclude the possibility that an individual might choose to enjoy a couple of bottles of beer en route.

A glass of water should suffice.

This sounds like it comes from someone who has never experienced the taste, aroma and relaxing properties of a good pint of ale.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One must also consider these specific circumstances, whereby such substances cause nothing but a nuisance for the vast majority of upstanding passengers on trains and in stations. There is no justification for drinking of this sort in public trains and stations.

A minority of alcohol drinkers cause a nuisance, but alcohol is not a nuisance in itself if treated with respect.

 

[WestCoast]

Well, until more of the UK population become mature enough to understand that they don't need to get drunk, then I'm not surprised that many of us feel it has become a vice. Self-inflicted by far too many who should know better.

There is really no excuse for being disorderly from drink anywhere. The problem of course lies with those that can't exercise self-restraint. A train is certainly one of the worst environments to be near such people as you can't easily move away.

I used to live in Munich which is a city that loves beer, but very rarely, if ever, did I see any people drinking and acting offensively. Large groups enjoying a beer as part of a picnic in the park were a regular sight, not a problem at all.

Most people in the UK are completely inoffensive after a few drinks, but there's a vocal minority that use it as an excuse to cause trouble.

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't know about GB as a whole, but York has a serious problem with the booze...

As a popular pub crawl destination for communities across the north, York certainly does have a problem with rowdy, intoxicated groups who have little to no respect to others that is disproportionate to what would be expected of a city of that size. Working for a TOC that serves the city, I know that we have problem trains from York at certain times on a Friday and Saturday night, and have talked to traincrew who are resigned to the behaviours seen when working these trains: As such, I believe that the dry station and dry trains initiative, applied to an appropriate time period where the problem is at its' peak, is very much justified.

Mind you, I was slightly flummoxed once when I caught sight of the following notice hung from the ceiling on a large banner adjacent to the York Tap as I entered said hostelry to avail myself of a couple of pints :

 

[edwin_m]

There is really no excuse for being disorderly from drink anywhere. The problem of course lies with those that can't exercise self-restraint. A train is certainly one of the worst environments to be near such people as you can't easily move away.

It's also one of the worst environments to deal with any trouble. Unless police or security are already on board, the other passengers have to suffer until the train reaches the next station, where there may or may not be assistance available.

Given that it's effectively impossible to police any other way, I suspect most people would forgo their own "right" to a drink to avoid being subjected to that sort of aggro.