York to Wakefield via Harrogate

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by far, 15 Jun 2019.

  1. far

    far Member

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    I bought an off peak day return between York and Wakefield on Friday. The ticket restriction simply said "via Leeds". It was not a Northern only ticket. Should it have been valid via Harrogate?
     
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  3. Quakkerillo

    Quakkerillo Member

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    If you look here, you can see there are some tickets with routes via Leeds (Which doesn't include: "Not via Harrogate" as far as I can seE), and some Any Permitted:
    http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=YRK&dest=0444
    I don't know what you asked from the ticket clerk, or which ticket machine you asked for what ticket, but there are definitely multiple options available.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2019
  4. JB_B

    JB_B Member

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    Yes. There are two off-peak returns (CDR) from York to Wakefield - route:via Leeds and route:Northern Only. Both are valid via Harrogate.
     
  5. far

    far Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation. I intended to travel via Harrogate but the train manager on the 12:11 service said this ticket would not be valid on the service when I asked him to check before boarding. One member of staff at York ticket office thought it would be, three others thought it wouldn't be and even a TPE member of staff thought it wouldn't be. I needed to do something in Harrogate for half an hour before travelling onwards to Leeds then Wakefield. Long and short of it was that I travelled to Leeds, had a word with the train manager on the 12:59 to Knaresborough who let us on and said we would have indeed been travelling on a valid ticket from York and should have been allowed on that service all along. It was just very confusing and meant that, because of this delay, I arrived into Harrogate over 50 minutes later than intended and it had knock on effects for the rest of the day. Is it worth contacting Northern?
     
  6. JB_B

    JB_B Member

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    It's disappointing that a basic question like this has been answered incorrectly by (a majority of) the rail staff you asked; sadly, it's not surprising.

    The bulk of the fault lies with TOC management who are happy to leave staff with little or no training on routeing and ticket validity. (Even so, staff shouldn't be making up answers if they don't know.)

    It seems that staff from multiple TOCs have given you incorrect information. (Northern, TPE and - I don't have local knowledge - but isn't the ticket office at York LNER?).

    I would complain to Northern in the first instance as it was their staff (the TM) who, by giving incorrect information, lead you to miss your intended train ( and possibly onward connections). I would expect at least delay repay as a minimum and hopefully something more given the way you've been messed about.

    Others on this forum will have better ideas about how to escalate this if you don't get a satisfactory outcome.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2019
  7. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Agreed; if you were delayed by misinformation then Delay Repay is the easiest mechanism of obtaining compensation.
     
  8. far

    far Member

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    Thanks for that. I've emailed Northern and been told to expect a reply within 20 working days. I will update this thread with their response....
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The Guard made that up. It's not true.
    That's disappointing as York ticket office is generally not bad. But even they cannot be trusted to consistently give out accurate information :(
    Definitely.

    If this was me, I'd have been tempted to pay whatever additional payment I was asked to pay (by credit card). I would then have clear, indisputable evidence of a contractual breach by the company.

    The problem with incurring a delay is that your damages are difficult to quantify, though you are arguably at least entitled to the equivalent of a 30-59 minute Delay Repay claim in my opinion.

    A quick search on NRE would tell them it's valid.

    And yes if you don't know, any sensible person would admit you don't know and give the benefit of the doubt to the customer.

    It's not difficult!
    Agreed.
     
  10. far

    far Member

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    I should actually have done that looking back. There's a chance the guard may have relented and not charged anything anyway, but I got anxious despite being 95% sure I was in the right. Thanks for the advice :)
     
  11. far

    far Member

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    I have received a reply back, via email, on Monday from Northern. The gist of which is that they're sorry and apologise and will investigate that member of staff. However, no recompense at all, which is disappointing. Is it likely they will send "a gesture of goodwill" later on via post?
     
  12. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    That's good to hear.

    You could arguably claim compensation due to being 50 minutes late into Harrogate.

    I's unclear what happened next; presumably you went to Wakefield after visiting Harrogate, by doubling-back between Leeds & Harrogate (not normally permitted, but only done because Northern had breached the contract and you were authorised to do the double-back by the Guard of the Leeds to Harrogate train).

    It's difficult to get a clear understanding of what your delay compensation entitlement (in monetary terms) for a 50 minute delay at a point at which you broke your journey, but you should be given something; the easiest thing to claim would be a complimentary single ticket, and arguably this is an entitlement and not relying on a gesture of goodwill.

    Northern don't tend to give gestures of goodwill; I find it a challenge just to get what I am entitled to!
     
  13. far

    far Member

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    I got a letter in the post today from Northern which came with 2 Northern return vouchers and an apology. Thanks for all the help :) Next question for me is, would these be valid for a trip from York to Carlisle via Settle (on Northern trains of course)
     
  14. Djgr

    Djgr Member

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    Yes it would. I would probably make it York to say Maryport and go back via the Cumbrian Coast then Preston to Leeds.

    This is one ticket no Northern conductor will give a second glance at because they all share in the shame of the franchise.
     
  15. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    This isn't slightly contentious; it's the shortest route!

    (I see no reason why someone could not put their journey as Scarborough to Whitby and travel via Hull and Carlisle if you felt inclined to do so! The letter and map I received - back when they used to actually send maps - said "anywhere on the Northern network")
     
  16. ac-03

    ac-03 Member

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    Is the reason why it states that the ticket is valid via Leeds to prevent you from travelling down to Doncaster and then up to York via ECML

    .
     
  17. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Yes it is.
     

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