Your experiences of unbelievable rolling stock diagram allocations (past and present)

[dk1]

The daily return class 150/2 from Liverpool St-Sheringham came as a shock in 1999. It was only as a prelude to 170 operation which when it happened never included through services from London to the Bittern Line anyway. Sheringham had of course seen through Summer Saturday services formed of first generation DMUs in the 60s.

 

[Beebman]

Class 150s years ago back in the late 80s before 158s were introduced were used on transpennine routes. Also under Northern spirit/ATN they were often used between Scarborough - Blackpool amongst 155/6/8 units. Even 142s were used when sprinters not available. I think a 142 were diagrammed Middlesbrough to Carlisle/Whitehaven.

I remember the first time I ever saw a 150/2, it was just after delivery (originally they briefly didn't have yellow fronts), it was at York working a service to Liverpool.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

In the first 2 years from the start of ATWs term between 2003 and 2005 ATW "encroached" on to other TOCs "territory" and operated to Waterloo and Penzance. There was a 0640 Carmarthen to Penzance booked for a 158 but due to a failure a 143 worked it on one occasion. It must have been on the last drop of fuel by the time it got back to Cardiff. In December 2005, the SRA took all these cross-border services away, moving them to more fitting TOCs

A 143 from Carmarthen to Penzance??? I wonder how many passengers did the full journey of probably around 7 hours! I may find Pacers not bad trains but I'd much rather a vintage loco-hauled train (steam or diesel) with table-seated coaches than a 143 for that long.

 

[Anonymous10]

150/2s from Scarborough to Holyhead...

That can't be fun

 

[Anonymous10]

I saw a class 143 working with a prmed 153 on the Pembroke Dock branch a few months ago couldn't quite understand that with stock shortages and the branch being quiet in winter

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Somebody mentioned a Central Trains Class 158. Well, Mum and I were travelling from Didcot Parkway to Plymouth changing at Bristol Parkway in like 2004. I think the Virgin Trains service was delayed. So that we got a bit of the way there, we were able to catch the Wessex Trains (or Alphaline service) service from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads.

I remember Mum saying something like 'We'll gamble it, get on this one' - meaning we'll get on this one.

It was a Central Trains Class 158 (2 coaches I think) - I remember a member of staff saying when the train stopped something like 'We have a lady driver !'

 

[hexagon789]

That can't be fun

There was a trolley at least

Nice cup of hot plastic to while away the hours!

 

[Anonymous10]

There was a trolley at least

Nice cup of hot plastic to while away the hours!

Sounds good I hope I oneday get something like that

 

[Bikeman78]

The Manchester Airport to Euston service was normally operated by 4 Class 322 units hired in from WAGN. Did other EMU classes ever work them in their short history?

Also, Class 158 from Rochdale and Blackpool North to Euston in the same period. I travelled up to London from Rochdale on this service, returning to Manchester Airport on a 322 the following day. Incidentally, were these not part of NWT's franchise commitment rather than open access?

Yes a Clacton unit made it to Euston at least once.

 

[Masborough]

Actually more like 5.5 - 6 hours and that's before you take into consideration the terrible reliability on that route. They are generally booked as 2 car between Norwich and Nottingham though, albeit 158!

In the 2000s 2 car 158s also often used to run between Liverpool & Nottingham and (at least once, probably more) when extended to Great Yarmouth on summer Saturdays.

Manchester Sheffield at peak times was terrible. A shame really as IMO the 158s, with sufficient carriages, were otherwise decent.

 

[southern442]

508's running the semi-fast London to Tonbridge seems ridiculous looking back, especially considering the far more comfortable 455s and 465s would be working stopping services that would never get up to the fast speeds the Tonbridge train was meant to achieve.

Going from Southampton to Bristol one day to visit a friend for the weekend, I ended up on a lovely 158 on the way there, and a 150/0 on the way back. Horrible low seats, no toilet, terrible draught, made the journey seem so much longer!

 

[AY1975]

Mostly on excursions from South London stations not regular trains (though of course SR semi-fasts were 50% non-lavatory through till the VEPs came.
There was a booked Waterloo-Portsmouth 12-SUB fast on summer Saturdays though.

Yes, and at least at summer weekends until about the mid to late 1980s there were regular Charing Cross-Gillingham trains that were extended to Ramsgate and still formed of the usual EPBs. They were probably intended for people making intermediate journeys rather than going all the way but even, say, Dartford to Margate or Ramsgate would have been quite a long journey without the necessary facilities.

 

[AY1975]

Didn’t a 33/1+4TC work the Gospel Oak to Barking service due to a shortage of DMUs

Yes, for about two days in about August or September 1999.

 

[AY1975]

My memory has been jogged of a couple of other interesting examples I experienced from the early 80s (both I think from 1982).

The first was a short journey on a stopper from Pangbourne to Twyford which was formed of a 31 on a short scratch rake of Mk1s - I had the comfort of a declassified Open First!

I suppose this might potentially warrant a separate thread, but in the days before fixed formation sets became the norm, so probably until about the mid to late 1980s (although you still used to get this occasionally in the early '90s), "scratch sets" or "scratch rakes" (i.e. sets of coaches that looked as if they had just been coupled together at random) were quite common.

For example, West Coast Main Line trains were often formed of a mixture of Mark 2s and Mark 3s (which I guess could have caused chaos with the seat reservation system unless a certain number of seats were always left unreserved). You also often used to see trains formed of a mixture of Mark 1s and Mark 2s, or non-air-conditioned and air-conditioned Mark 2s.

You would also sometimes get trains with more brake end cars or more 1st class than was needed (in which case some of the 1st class coaches would often have window labels saying "For the use of passengers travelling Second Class"). You even occasionally saw trains with Mark 1s and air-conditioned Mark 2s (i.e. ordinary passenger coaches as opposed to Mark 1 buffet cars) or Mark 3s and non-air-conditioned Mark 2s in the same train.

The second was a trip from Eastbourne to Victoria in a 9-car DEMU set - however that was a scheduled working in the late afternoon (which is why I timed my journey then!) to get a set of stock from St. Leonard's Depot to London to work peak services on the Oxted line.

My dad remembers getting a DEMU in place of a failed EMU from Wimbledon to Sutton via St Helier in about the early to mid 1990s. It must have really struggled up the steep gradient between West Sutton and Sutton, known as the "Wall of Death".

 

[Southern]

Yes, and at least at summer weekends until about the mid to late 1980s there were regular Charing Cross-Gillingham trains that were extended to Ramsgate and still formed of the usual EPBs. They were probably intended for people making intermediate journeys rather than going all the way but even, say, Dartford to Margate or Ramsgate would have been quite a long journey without the necessary facilities.

Still happens, albeit with Networkers instead of EPBs - last year the specials ran from Dartford, with some extended to/from either Cannon Street or London Bridge via Greenwich; additional services also ran from Victoria as well and on looking on RTT for this year, everything seems to have been input again, doubtful any of it will run though...

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

While I remember, on a 2015 YouTube video of Banbury Station (probably like 2 years back), I saw a then First Great Western HST at Banbury.

Apparently it was due to engineering works the reason an HST was in Banbury.

 

[Parallel]

While I remember, on a 2015 YouTube video of Banbury Station (probably like 2 years back), I saw a then First Great Western HST at Banbury.

Apparently it was due to engineering works the reason an HST was in Banbury.

I think they were reversing at Banbury and running to/from Marylebone with 1tp2h from Penzance/Swansea on alternate hours.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Back when GWR had 150001 and 150002 they would regularly be used on Great Malvern to Brighton or Cardiff to Portsmouth, yet a 166 with declassified First Class would be shuttling back and forth Avonmouth. Why 001 and 002 couldn't be limited to Avonmouth or Weston-super-Mare services I do not know.

Also, ATW/TfW have a regular tendency to chuck out a 150+153 combo on Milford Haven to Manchesters (particularly on a Sunday, in which I'm seeing a lot of them at the moment), when 158s and 175s are doing Maesteg or Ebbw Vale services. Totally inadequate stock for such long distance journeys. And before anyone says it, it's not because they're doing it to allocate stock around, they just have no interest in swapping them around.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Yes a Clacton unit made it to Euston at least once.

Thanks for the reply, I've only just seen it. I did see the 309s occasionally in Manchester in their twilight years, but never had reason to catch one, unfortunately.

 

[Parallel]

Back when GWR had 150001 and 150002 they would regularly be used on Great Malvern to Brighton or Cardiff to Portsmouth, yet a 166 with declassified First Class would be shuttling back and forth Avonmouth. Why 001 and 002 couldn't be limited to Avonmouth or Weston-super-Mare services I do not know.

I think it was because many crews weren’t trained on them at that point so they couldn’t have worked South. There was also some clearance work needed on the route, namely the tunnel under Dunas Aqueduct (between Bath and Freshford), Portsmouth and Southsea high level platforms and various other locations.

That said, the 150/0 twins, as well as the 150/9 twins (when they had them) would still operate these services presumably because they had nothing else available and nothing they could swap with en route.

Even worse was when they used to send single 150/1s or 150/2s which were totally inadequate capacity wise. On a couple of occasions, single 153s operated but had to be terminated at Southampton due to not being cleared to go any further.

Allocations definitely used to be more inconsistent before the Turbos moved across. Once a single 153 operated (starting short) at Westbury to Cardiff Central and back to Bristol where it was finally swapped, and the 20:38 from Westbury to Bristol threw up everything from a HST with a full 8 carriage rake to a single 153. 143s have also run from Westbury to Exeter, St James Park to Cardiff and Exeter to Penzance in recent years.

Nowadays, short forming is still common on GWR but at least it’s not quite as extreme as before.

 

[Beebman]

Yes a Clacton unit made it to Euston at least once.

The 'Network Exile' HRT/SEG railtour of 15/11/86 began and finished at Euston with 2x309s:
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/861115hr.htm

In a similar vein, HRT also had a pair of 303s to and from Euston on 04/09/1982:
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/820904wi.htm

 

[Anonymous10]

Back when GWR had 150001 and 150002 they would regularly be used on Great Malvern to Brighton or Cardiff to Portsmouth, yet a 166 with declassified First Class would be shuttling back and forth Avonmouth. Why 001 and 002 couldn't be limited to Avonmouth or Weston-super-Mare services I do not know.

Also, ATW/TfW have a regular tendency to chuck out a 150+153 combo on Milford Haven to Manchesters (particularly on a Sunday, in which I'm seeing a lot of them at the moment), when 158s and 175s are doing Maesteg or Ebbw Vale services. Totally inadequate stock for such long distance journeys. And before anyone says it, it's not because they're doing it to allocate stock around, they just have no interest in swapping them around.

Maybe it's because the 158s are getting new interiors supposedly

 

[AY1975]

I suppose this might potentially warrant a separate thread, but in the days before fixed formation sets became the norm, so probably until about the mid to late 1980s (although you still used to get this occasionally in the early '90s), "scratch sets" or "scratch rakes" (i.e. sets of coaches that looked as if they had just been coupled together at random) were quite common.

I've set up a separate thread on scratch sets at www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scratch-sets.203881/

 

[Deepgreen]

I don't have any examples of "unbelievable" ones (otherwise I could just make anything up) - only surprising. I didn't experience it, but in 1970 a 4BUF was allocated to the suburban Guildford to Waterloo via Ascot service:

4-BUF on a Suburban Service

4-BUF 'Nelson' unit No.3077 had just been displaced from 'front line' services on the Pompey line between London Waterloo and Portsmouth. Rather unusually this unit was temporarily deployed on suburban Guildford to London Waterloo stopping services via Ascot and was photographed in the...

flic.kr

 

[Kendalian]

I remember a 158 turning up in peak time on a Birmingham to Four Oaks cross city working, just before electrification went live. Seem to remember it just about kept time on the road, but lost time at the stations

 

[irish_rail]

I remember a 158 turning up in peak time on a Birmingham to Four Oaks cross city working, just before electrification went live. Seem to remember it just about kept time on the road, but lost time at the stations

Was reading an old copy of the railway magazine and it claimed a class 20 worked a peak BNS to wolves service one morning in (I think from memory) 1986.

 

[GW43125]

Ipswich-Lowestoft-Norwich, single 153.
Norwich City were at home.
Many people were left behind.

 

[Deepgreen]

I remember the first time I ever saw a 150/2, it was just after delivery (originally they briefly didn't have yellow fronts), it was at York working a service to Liverpool.

How were they allowed to operate in service (or at all, come to that) without yellow fronts at that time?

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes, and at least at summer weekends until about the mid to late 1980s there were regular Charing Cross-Gillingham trains that were extended to Ramsgate and still formed of the usual EPBs. They were probably intended for people making intermediate journeys rather than going all the way but even, say, Dartford to Margate or Ramsgate would have been quite a long journey without the necessary facilities.

Summer weekends have always brought out the 'dregs' - it was common in the 1950s for Victoria to Brighton extras to be formed of 4SUBs - pretty much the only time they ran as 12 car formations. The erstwhile Brighton to Victoria Bike Ride specials were 12EPB.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

How were they allowed to operate in service (or at all, come to that) without yellow fronts at that time?

Quite - the old BR standard was 51% yellow on the front (operating) side.