Your favourite hybrid / combos / unusual mixed formations

[33117]

For me I always found it quite quirky when northern spirit coupled a driving car to another 158!

So you'd end up with a 2 car 158 with another half a unit coupled to the other.

 

[xotGD]

The Windsor & Eton branch used to see Bubble Car plus 101 trailer combos.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For me I always found it quite quirky when northern spirit coupled a driving car to another 158!

So you'd end up with a 2 car 158 with another half a unit coupled to the other.

Great Western Railway still do that now.

 

[hexagon789]

Great Western Railway still do that now.

I think they've begun splitting them into 2-car

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think they've begun splitting them into 2-car

That wasn’t what I was getting at though. I was making the point that these can still be seen nowadays.

 

[hexagon789]

Scotland also 'threw' some stuff together after the fire at Ayr in 1984 which created some strange formations. Happy days!

There's a picture somewhere of a set in 1986 formed 105 DMBS, 101 TSL, 107 DMS.

There was a good thread somewhere about Scottish DMU formations, there were some oddball 101 sets hastily formed when the 107s were withdrawn with axle problems, some semi-permanently formed 6-car with only one brake: DMS-TS-DMBS+DMS-TS-DMS OR even with a rare TBS: DMS-TBS - DMS+DMS-TS-DMS, the usual 3-car set was formed DMBS-TS-DMS. In the aftermath of the Ayr depot fire when they were simply trying to keep services running there was even a three car set with only one power car: DMBS-TS-DTS which was restricted to either working as part of a six-car or Glasgow-East Kilbride/Barrhead if running solo.

 

[JohnElliott]

One winter when there was disruption caused by snow, the train I caught from East Croydon to Haywards Heath was CIG + EPB rather than CIG + CIG.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Some weird and wonderful lash-ups were found on SR-based railtours, making full use of the Southern's trend towards compatibility of nearly everything (which was never quite achieved, but that's another story).
e.g.
The Electro-Diesel Grice (https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/70s/790120da.htm) Class 73 loco + 4-TC trailer unit + EMU-wired Mk1 buffet car + 4-TC trailer unit

 

[sprinterguy]

For me I always found it quite quirky when northern spirit coupled a driving car to another 158!

So you'd end up with a 2 car 158 with another half a unit coupled to the other.

That can't have been common with Northern Spirit units, I never witnessed it myself. It was a more familiar arrangement with Central Trains, First Transpennine Express, Wessex Trains and, latterly, Great Western Railway at various times.

 

[xotGD]

For me I always found it quite quirky when northern spirit coupled a driving car to another 158!

Especially when the cab of the half unit is facing inwards!

 

[delt1c]

Think it was winter of 84 there was bad snow in South East and some Kent trains were 56 + EMU, remember seeing a picture of a 56 hauling EPB's

 

[507021]

Class 153 and Class 156.

 

[Class455]

I quite like a Class 150 and Class 170 combo, I can't seem to find many pictures of them though so it must be quite rare to have one of these in service.
Another unusual combo I'd like are Class 221's coupled with Class 390's and Class 377's coupled to 171's, although it only happens in emergencies only

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That can't have been common with Northern Spirit units, I never witnessed it myself. It was a more familiar arrangement with Central Trains, First Transpennine Express, Wessex Trains and, latterly, Great Western Railway at various times.

Northern Spirit only really did those towards the end of their franchise, then when First/Keolis took over there were one or two units with 2 cars in NS/TP livery and one in Central Trains, but all three with the dark blue First TPE banners on the lower half!

 

[theblackwatch]

There's a picture somewhere of a set in 1986 formed 105 DMBS, 101 TSL, 107 DMS.

There was a good thread somewhere about Scottish DMU formations, there were some oddball 101 sets hastily formed when the 107s were withdrawn with axle problems, some semi-permanently formed 6-car with only one brake: DMS-TS-DMBS+DMS-TS-DMS OR even with a rare TBS: DMS-TBS - DMS+DMS-TS-DMS, the usual 3-car set was formed DMBS-TS-DMS. In the aftermath of the Ayr depot fire when they were simply trying to keep services running there was even a three car set with only one power car: DMBS-TS-DTS which was restricted to either working as part of a six-car or Glasgow-East Kilbride/Barrhead if running solo.

I don't think I've ever seen any reports/pictures of the sets you mention, so if you come across them or any pics, please post them here. I bet the single power car 3-car formation was a bit slow at getting away from stations!

 

[Steddenm]

I did see a NIR DMU (CAF type) coupled to an IÉ DMU (Commuter type) once passing the bridge over the Lagan on the way to Yorkgate depot. It possibly ran the Enterprise as a replacement set? Was in July 2018.

 

[Terry Tait]

Has a 317 ever run coupled to a 321?

 

[sprinterguy]

Northern Spirit only really did those towards the end of their franchise, then when First/Keolis took over there were one or two units with 2 cars in NS/TP livery and one in Central Trains, but all three with the dark blue First TPE banners on the lower half!

The Transpennine Express 'hybrid' 158s were only formed up towards the end of December 2004, after the start of the First TPE franchise (Which commenced in February 2004, when Northern Spirit were but a memory). There were six sets, numbered 158971 - 976, which were formed by splitting three of the once Scottish sets (158737/743/744) and adding them to one end of sets in the 15877x series. This was made possible by the arrival of four ex-Central Trains units, 158783/787/790/791, into the franchise to negate the loss in available sets. I've never seen any personal, photographic or written evidence of any of the ex-CT units being used in a hybrid set, but always willing to be proved wrong.

Especially when the cab of the half unit is facing inwards!

Funnily enough, at the time that First TPE were operating 'hybrid' 3-car 158 sets, their advertising posters depicted such a set, but with all three driving cars all facing in the same direction (left): There'd be some issues when such a train reached one end of the line!

 

[hexagon789]

That wasn’t what I was getting at though. I was making the point that these can still be seen nowadays.

Very true, just pointing out that that's changing. Is it GWR that has some 150s formed the same way?

 

[hexagon789]

I don't think I've ever seen any reports/pictures of the sets you mention, so if you come across them or any pics, please post them here. I bet the single power car 3-car formation was a bit slow at getting away from stations!

I'll try and look out the thread. I'm sure the poster mentioned that it turned up on a Kilmarnock working one day and they pointed out to the driver that it wasn't allowed to work that service due to being underpowered. The driver was initially annoyed but on phoning control turned out to be pleased they pointed it out as it would've caused issues later in the diagram.

 

[sprinterguy]

Very true, just pointing out that that's changing. Is it GWR that has some 150s formed the same way?

They operated two for a while, formed by inserting each of the two toiletless 150/2 vehicles remaining following collisions in the eighties into the centre of a 150/1 set, but they've since been disbanded, and the 3x2-car sets resulting all moved to Northern.

Similar hybrid 150 sets operated for many years in the West Midlands, and around Manchester for a shorter period in the mid-nineties.

 

[sprinterguy]

Has a 317 ever run coupled to a 321?

Comparable formations can be found in Scotland as the similar 318s and 320s regularly operate in multiple.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The hybrids I fondly remember...

4 EPBs with a mix of BR Standard and SR style coaches

4 x 4 EPBs with 9 compartment trailers (instead of 10) that were built in the 1940s as composites but never ran as such)

During the EPB facelifting programme, a mix of BR blue and blue/grey formations shortly before being sent to works

Seeing one or two 3-car Class 455s running in public service whilst coaches were away for accident damage (I believe there were 2, or more units temporarily renumbered "5800")

The former Southern Region were very good at "cut and shut" on accident-damaged coaches where for example, I saw first-hand, in BR workshops (e.g. Slade Green, Eastleigh or Selhurst) 4 Cig driving cabs being welded onto 4 Vep driving coaches (or vice versa) to replace native damaged cabs. Once painted up; you could never tell...

There was a 4 Vep running around in Connex livery with a former 4 TC driving trailer (unit 3582 ?)

 

[hexagon789]

They operated two for a while, formed by inserting each of the two toiletless 150/2 vehicles remaining following collisions in the eighties into the centre of a 150/1 set, but they've since been disbanded, and the 3x2-car sets resulting all moved to Northern.

Thank you, I couldn't recall of GWR either still had the units nor whether they were still in hybrid 3-car formations.

I don't suppose you know whether all the GWR 3-car 158s are reverting to 2-car or not?

 

[theblackwatch]

I'll try and look out the thread. I'm sure the poster mentioned that it turned up on a Kilmarnock working one day and they pointed out to the driver that it wasn't allowed to work that service due to being underpowered. The driver was initially annoyed but on phoning control turned out to be pleased they pointed it out as it would've caused issues later in the diagram.

Great, thanks. I do have a lot of DMU formations lists from the mid-80s through to the 90s but haven't ever noted anything formed as such. Incidentally, I didn't think any 105s ran in Scotland as late as 1986 but my memory clearly isn't that good as I discovered a rather nice 120/107/105 combination at https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2243 from that year!

 

[hexagon789]

Great, thanks. I do have a lot of DMU formations lists from the mid-80s through to the 90s but haven't ever noted anything formed as such. Incidentally, I didn't think any 105s ran in Scotland as late as 1986 but my memory clearly isn't that good as I discovered a rather nice 120/107/105 combination at https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2243 from that year!

And the 105 car in rail blue still! Must've been fairly rare by '86 I'd have thought?

 

[theblackwatch]

And the 105 car in rail blue still! Must've been fairly rare by '86 I'd have thought?

Very few 105s got blue/grey - the only ones I'm aware of (and I can't remember seeing) were some power cars in the 514xx series based in Scotland in the early 1980s, and they'd gone by the time I started taking a keener interest in DMUs in around 1984. The rest continued in 'banger blue' till withdrawal although the some of the parcels ones got red/yellow stripes on them.

 

[hexagon789]

Very few 105s got blue/grey - the only ones I'm aware of (and I can't remember seeing) were some power cars in the 514xx series based in Scotland in the early 1980s, and they'd gone by the time I started taking a keener interest in DMUs in around 1984. The rest continued in 'banger blue' till withdrawal although the some of the parcels ones got red/yellow stripes on them.

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe it's just me, but all Blue looks so drab. Personally I much prefer the Strathclyde PTE livery.

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't suppose you know whether all the GWR 3-car 158s are reverting to 2-car or not?

It was certainly originally the case that the majority would be returned to two car sets to work inter-local services in pairs on the Cornish main line, but that was before the short HST GTi sets came along to take up some of those duties, so I'm not sure what the score is now.

 

[4REP]

going back 3 decades ago it has to be Rep/Hap. Then Cig/Bep/Vep vice ceps.
Today Class 156/150 vice 153.
Reps could only be multiple with Haps or any other 2 car unit if they were in multiple with cigs or veps etc one of the motors had to be isolated on the Rep.