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Your first experience of foreign train travel

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This recalls to me -- a bit "tangentially" -- a chap with whom I worked 25 -- 30 years ago. He had, previously, been in the British Army, and had spent time in the Berlin garrison: if I have things rightly, he was talking about the early / mid-1980s. He had a mild interest in railways; knowing my enthusiasm for them, he mentioned that at that time, it was possible for British armed forces personnel to take an -- officially arranged and approved, and strictly supervised -- "quasi-tourist" day trip into East Berlin. He told of his taking the opportunity to do this, and of being interested to observe active DR steam at, I think, Berlin Ostbahnhof.

This bod was a bit inclined to tell not-very-likely-sounding tales of alleged past doings and experiences of his. Pretty well everything I had heard about the way things were in divided Berlin, caused me then to suspect that the above was an instance of this. However; I do get an inkling that over the decades, everyday doings re the "oppositional" sectors of the city became a bit more relaxed, in some ways -- feel that just possibly, this thing about "British Army day-trips" might be true, however improbable-seeming. Would be interested in thoughts from folk knowledgeable about such matters.
It was quite possible. My father worked for the British Military Government and day trips were allowed (my parents went to the Opera at least once and we had a general trip together once). There were also organised group trips. No compulsory money changing as, at least for the diplomats and the military this was travel to one of the other occupied sectors of Berlin as opposed to travel to East Germany.

I think the worries were less about the East Germans and Russians letting your mate in, more about being certain he wasn’t about to defect to the Eastern Bloc. Of course getting back would be more difficult. Travel was always, to my knowledge, through Checkpoint Charlie and so by car, or possibly by foot. We were firmly told not to use the U Bahn which went through East Berlin (one line without stopping, one line stopping at Friedrichstrasse).

The inconvenience level was high, so I don’t recall it being done much, but an inveterate steam fan might have done more that I or my parents did (they preferred the Deutsches Oper) about 15 mins by car from home.
 
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Calthrop

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@Cricketer8for9: thanks. So in this respect, my old colleague was likely not "drawing the long bow". For sure, there was plenty that was crazy, about the whole divided-Berlin business. Has always struck me that in parallel with its tragic, and frightening (possible trigger for World War III) aspects; there also was a good deal of sheer farce -- of various shades of dark, and less-so. I can't help liking the thing about President Kennedy proudly proclaiming that he was a custard doughnut -- "Ich bin ein Berliner !" (I know that that is largely an urban legend; but it's the kind of thing which one would like to be true -- at least, if one is as childish as me :| .)
 

StephenHunter

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I did actually manage to buy a Berliner donut in Berlin actually. It was definitely a WhatsApp worthy moment.
 

Requeststop

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A winter skiing holiday in Switzerland in 1971. I flew to Geneva, and took the train from the City station as the airport line didn't exist at the time to Martigny and then on the line towards Chatelard and Chamonix to Les Marecottes. Glorious line. Wonderful first overseas train travel experience.
 

Calthrop

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He did in Cologne. " i am proud to say Kölle alaaf".

Had to Google the above saying, which meant nothing to me. If I get things rightly, it means approximately "Cologne Ueber Alles" in the local dialect -- shouted a lot, by people clowning around in funny costumes, celebrating Carnival. I gather that that's a much-loved thing in that part of Germany: a couple of years ago, a friend and I were driving through Aachen, heading much further eastward, just before Lent began -- noticed plenty of costumed fun-and-games "there and then".
 

Train jaune

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I think my first experience of travelling by train abroad was in 2010, between Redondela de Galicia and Santiago de Compostela aboard an R-599, on a railfan trip that had more bus that trains in its journey.

It struck me how far more advanced and better quality newer trains where at the time in contrast with Portugal. The earliest trains we had doing a similar kind of service was already from 1985. The R-599 was brand new and felt in quality and experience like an Alfa Pendular, which is the highest prestige train down in Lusitania.

 

Train jaune

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1984, 30 hour trip from Munich to Thessalonika in ancient compartment train. Down through Yugoslavia, Slovenia, choc box just like the Tyrol. Then Kosova, the train windows opened and suitcases and trunks were pushed in like we were in downtown Mumbai. Obviously had a big impression on me as I recall all the details 36 years later
 

duesselmartin

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Had to Google the above saying, which meant nothing to me. If I get things rightly, it means approximately "Cologne Ueber Alles" in the local dialect -- shouted a lot, by people clowning around in funny costumes, celebrating Carnival. I gather that that's a much-loved thing in that part of Germany: a couple of years ago, a friend and I were driving through Aachen, heading much further eastward, just before Lent began -- noticed plenty of costumed fun-and-games "there and then".
Yes. Silly season.
 

delt1c

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My 1st experience of Foreign Travel was in Majorca in the early 70's. Mesmorized standing on an open balcony at the end of the coach being able to catch lemons from the passing bushes
 

route101

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1984, 30 hour trip from Munich to Thessalonika in ancient compartment train. Down through Yugoslavia, Slovenia, choc box just like the Tyrol. Then Kosova, the train windows opened and suitcases and trunks were pushed in like we were in downtown Mumbai. Obviously had a big impression on me as I recall all the details 36 years later

Thought that service would go via Macedonia rather than Kosovo?
 

MarcVD

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Thought that service would go via Macedonia rather than Kosovo?
Depends. From Idomeni to Skoplie, there is only one route. But further north, you can either go via Nis or via Pristina. When I did that trip, 40 years ago, we went south via Nis, but the return trip was via Pristina.
 

LMS 4F

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1968 stationed at Wolfenbuttel in West Germany as part of B.A.O.R. Caught the train at Braunsweig to Hook of Holland. The train had started in Warsaw and had coaches for all over Europe so it was important to sit in the correct coach. At various stations we were split from the train and shunted, with passengers still on board, onto another train. Six of us to a compartment with a crate of coke and a couple of bottles of cheap German Brandy.
At the Dutch border the customs came on and on seeing our ID cards, in lieu of passports asked if we had any cigarettes we wanted to sell them.
On arrival at the Hook it was the ferry to Harwich, two sailings a day, 12noon and 12 midnight. One boat was run by B.R. And if we got that one it was groans all round as it was appalling. The alternative was I believe run by the Dutch but it was much better. Did the journey about 4 times over two years and it never got better.
 

eMeS

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Depends. From Idomeni to Skoplie, there is only one route. But further north, you can either go via Nis or via Pristina. When I did that trip, 40 years ago, we went south via Nis, but the return trip was via Pristina.
Not my first travel on foreign trains, but in 1965 four of us (all recent graduates) were travelling in my car from North London to Athens where we planned to get a boat to our holiday villa on the island of Ydra. Sadly, the big ends on my car failed a short distance south of Niš. Managed to get a tow (very hairy indeed!) back into Niš and to the Customs Office where the only practicable option was to give my 13 year old car to the Yugoslav Customs. We then continued by train from Niš station to Athens - Direct Orient Express, I think. I remember having to hand over our passports, but they were returned to us, and we did get to Athens, and continued our journey. I remember seeing the earthquake damage when passing through Skopje, and noting that Yugoslavia was very subdued in 1965, but Thessaloniki was very much alive - even in the small hours of the morning. From Athens we continued our planned route, and after a week on Ydra, got to Brindisi via Corfu, and then the train to Milan, and then home via the Dieppe to Folkestone route. (The car I lost was a 13 year old Jaguar Mk VII, with >125,000 miles on the clock.)
 

ABB125

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August 2016 (so I was 14) on a family holiday. We went on multiple trips on the Circumvesuviana network (south of Naples), based in Vico Equense. It was totally different to anything in Britain, and as none of us speak Italian beyond things like numbers and set phrases, it was more interesting to use.
Since then, the only other European trains I've been in were on another family holiday last year in Spain. We did Salou-Tarragona return and Salou-Barcelona return (well, actually we went from PortAventura station as it was closer to the hotel). Again, this was completely different to anything in Britain. On the way back from Barcelona, we were sat next to a slightly... mentally deranged man who mumbled incoherently all the way!
I was going to go on an Interrail trip with some schoolfriends after a-levels this year, but as you can imagine it's not happening.
 

Train jaune

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Not my first travel on foreign trains, but in 1965 four of us (all recent graduates) were travelling in my car from North London to Athens where we planned to get a boat to our holiday villa on the island of Ydra. Sadly, the big ends on my car failed a short distance south of Niš. Managed to get a tow (very hairy indeed!) back into Niš and to the Customs Office where the only practicable option was to give my 13 year old car to the Yugoslav Customs. We then continued by train from Niš station to Athens - Direct Orient Express, I think. I remember having to hand over our passports, but they were returned to us, and we did get to Athens, and continued our journey. I remember seeing the earthquake damage when passing through Skopje, and noting that Yugoslavia was very subdued in 1965, but Thessaloniki was very much alive - even in the small hours of the morning. From Athens we continued our planned route, and after a week on Ydra, got to Brindisi via Corfu, and then the train to Milan, and then home via the Dieppe to Folkestone route. (The car I lost was a 13 year old Jaguar Mk VII, with >125,000 miles on the clock.)
 

YorkshireBear

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My first foreign rail travel was on the line from Faro to Lagos in The Algarve, did it for my birthday with my now wife parents dropped us off then went on to lagos where we had a day out. Fantastic day and have no caught the bug and have extensively done Germany and moving on to scandanavia and Eastern Europe once this is all over.
 

duesselmartin

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My first foreign rail travel was on the line from Faro to Lagos in The Algarve, did it for my birthday with my now wife parents dropped us off then went on to lagos where we had a day out. Fantastic day and have no caught the bug and have extensively done Germany and moving on to scandanavia and Eastern Europe once this is all over.
I still love the Algarve lines. No more loco but battered Up DMUS that are also fun.
 

stuu

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My first proper train experience other than the odd metro was a journey from Bad Harzburg to Berlin in 1994. First part was a nondescript DMU, followed by changing to a loco + carriages, with the loco being an ex-DR diesel which made an incredible amount of noise and smoke which would no doubt appeal to a certain portion of the members of this site. The whole route was being modernised at the time with huge piles of cash obviously being thrown at it. There was single line working at various places, and we had to change at Magdeburg which was my first experience of Eastern Bloc architecture. We arrived at Berlin Zoo, had a wander round and then took the U-bahn and S-bahn to Unter den Linden, and I can recall the S-bahn seeming old fashioned. I can't quite figure out from looking at a map which route we took - was there even a station at Potsdamer Platz then? Anyway it was certainly a memorable day out
 

StephenHunter

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There was an S-Bahn station at Potsdamer Platz then; the DB station came later when the new north-south line was built for the Hauptbahnhof.

You'd likely have come via Helmstedt and Marienborn, then through Potsdam to the 'Stadtbahn', ending up at Zoo. The ICEs now use the upgraded line via Stendal and Spandau, coming into the lower section of Berlin Hbf.
 

Cloud Strife

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This bod was a bit inclined to tell not-very-likely-sounding tales of alleged past doings and experiences of his. Pretty well everything I had heard about the way things were in divided Berlin, caused me then to suspect that the above was an instance of this. However; I do get an inkling that over the decades, everyday doings re the "oppositional" sectors of the city became a bit more relaxed, in some ways -- feel that just possibly, this thing about "British Army day-trips" might be true, however improbable-seeming. Would be interested in thoughts from folk knowledgeable about such matters.

Okay, so how it worked in practice:

The Allies had freedom of movement throughout Berlin, as the city's civilian authorities derived their authority from the occupying four powers. The city was officially occupied between 1945-1991, hence why West Berlin wasn't an integral part of West Germany. The Soviet Union never formally ended this agreement, as they also wanted to maintain access to West Berlin. They threatened to do it a few times, but from a purely military point of view, East Berlin was part of the wider occupied Berlin. Checkpoint Charlie therefore came into being as the agreed checkpoint for Western Allied forces going between the West Berlin sectors and the East Berlin sector, along with Checkpoint Alpha in Helmstedt and Checkpoint Bravo in Dreilinden.

So, on a practical level, what happened was that military forces could move freely between West Berlin and East Berlin. If an American officer wanted to catch a theatre show in East Berlin, they could, just as a Soviet officer could (in theory - in practice, it wasn't typical) go see a theatre show in West Berlin. What was supposed to happen was that Allied forces would only identify themselves to Allied military personnel if they weren't in uniform, which is what caused this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Crisis_of_1961 - as the Americans refused to identify themselves to East German border guards, who had legally no right to control military traffic in Berlin.

The British on the other hand were pretty pragmatic - they would wave their military ID cards at the East Germans.

(note: the Western Allies made it somewhat clear before the building of the Berlin Wall that while they insisted on free access to West Berlin, they had little interest in what the Soviets did in East Berlin as long as their right of access wasn't denied to them.)

So, to sum up: Day-trips were pretty normal by members of the Western Allies. They weren't subject to East German immigration restrictions as long as they stayed within Berlin, and East Berlin offered *some* things at an incredibly good price, such as theatre/opera and strangely enough, sheet music. It would have been nothing out of the ordinary for a British soldier to go over to East Berlin when not on duty, although they were clearly instructed not to provoke the East German authorities.
 

eMeS

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Okay, so how it worked in practice: ...

I served with the RAF in 2nd TAF from August 1958 to August 1959, when my National Service came to an end. I was based approx 30-40 miles from the West-East German border and about 40 miles south of Hannover.
A few of us did visit West Berlin as we had an out-station there. We were under very strict instructions not to travel on the metro system as part of it went into East Berlin, and it was not unknown for our personnel to be drugged when on the train, so that they would travel past their West Berlin station, into the Eastern Sector where they could be arrested, and used in a prisoner-exchange session.
 

delticdave

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My 1st experience of Foreign Travel was in Majorca in the early 70's. Mesmorized standing on an open balcony at the end of the coach being able to catch lemons from the passing bushes

Similar to my experience in '69, Soller Railway from Palma & then the tram down to the port. Didn't ride on the Mallorcan Railways 3 ft. gauge system bud did take some pix, including one of the 2 diesel locos pulling a couple of old wooden coaches into the other station in Palma.

Next year, (1970) 1st trip to mainland Europe, a week based in Amsterdam with tram & train riding on a 3-day Randstad pass.
Good fun & a few black & white pix, including one of the Dutch / Swiss TEE DEMU's.
Went back in '73 to visit my girlfriend, (whom I met on another Mallorcan vacation....) & married her the next year.

Been back to NL a few times since..........
 

peteb

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First experience of foreign train travel was a red and cream 2 car X4500 dmu from Boulogne Maritime to Paris, having just hopped off the Hovercraft; aged 15 heading to stay with my penfriend who lived near Le Mans. Dmu was surprisingly fast and I was impressed by the very smooth track compared to BR (southern) earlier in the day.
 

elbows47

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About 1964 or 1965 I was on a school trip to the Dordogne we went by train to Folkestone, boat to Calais and then by train to Clermont Ferrand. I had no particular interest in French Railways at that time, but it was an odd trip. We first had a diesel to Amiens and from there it was steam to Paris Nord, but I have no idea what loco it was. A trip on the Metro in Sprague stock was interesting, but there was then a very long, boring wait at Gare de Lyon (I think - someone correct me on the station please if necessary) for the overnight train to Clermont Ferrand. This was at Easter, and the party had several compartments which were vastly overheated but whenever someone turned the heating down it was promptly turned back up! I can still remember the smell of what seemed like burning rubber. It was a relief to get out at Clermont Ferrand but we were then put on a pre-war (it seemed) bus which vibrated very badly to take us to Orcival. Sadly I have no memories at all of the return trip apart from the Ferry crossing which was in a force 8 gale when we went straight across to Dover then along to Folkestone in the coastal protection. We got on the train at Folkestone Harbour and I was so tired from the crossing that I remember pulling straight out of the station and into Victoria a few seconds later!
 

Welly

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^^^
I think you went from Paris Est to Clermont Ferrand - my father went by the same route on his school exchange trip when he was 15.
 

30907

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^^^
I think you went from Paris Est to Clermont Ferrand - my father went by the same route on his school exchange trip when he was 15.
No, Lyon ( these days Bercy) or Austerlitz - IIRC there were services from both back in the day.
 
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