"Your ticket has expired, sir"

[mallard]

Are you seriously suggesting that SWT are encouraging gateline staff to lie about ticket validates?!

Officially, of course not. In reality, they probably don't care what their staff do as long as it makes them money. Some staff will lie and be rewarded for it, that's at the very least a tacit approval.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Are you seriously suggesting that SWT are encouraging gateline staff to lie about ticket validates?!

I often get people who don't believe me that a "day" return or single is only valid on the day printed on the ticket. So it works the other way round too!

 

[David Goddard]

Aren't they now (effective 5 October) valid up until 0429 the following morning?

 

[bnm]

I often get people who don't believe me that a "day" return or single is only valid on the day printed on the ticket. So it works the other way round too!

A day return can be valid until 1200 the following day.

 

[Urban Gateline]

A day return can be valid until 1200 the following day.

Yes that's right, just to clarify, the people I've come accross tried to use one after 12pm, dated the day before.

 

[OwlMan]

A day return can be valid until 1200 the following day.

Not under the new t&cs all travel on day tickets must be completed by 0429 the following day

#2 - Break of Journey

Break of journey is allowed on all Anytime Day tickets. Anytime Day tickets are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 in the early morning on the following day. All travel must be completed by this time.


Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns, GroupSave Day Returns: Valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following day, by which time all travel must be completed.

 

[bnm]

And that information is in the public domain is it?

The 'definitive' source of information for the general public is National Rail Enquiries. And they say:

If you break your journey and are still travelling at 02:30 then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey, but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 12:00.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/offpeak_day_conditions.html

So, an Off Peak Day ticket can be valid until 1200 the following day.

Yes, I know The Manual says different. Just another botched introduction of a change to ticket validities by ATOC.

 

[blacknight]

Why not, if their job is correctly reading tickets and displaying good customer service?.

Maybe then the automated gateline should be removed & consigned to the scrap heap, as it was ticket gate which rejected ticket first as expired gateline assistant can only go on what machine reads off magnetic strip.

Why do critics of staff always resort to line about giving good customer service, takes lie saying customer is always right- wrong on railways we have passengers, first & foremost it is about defending revenue.

 

[Oswyntail]

Maybe then the automated gateline should be removed & consigned to the scrap heap, as it was ticket gate which rejected ticket first as expired gateline assistant can only go on what machine reads off magnetic strip.

Er, not really. The whole point of having a human as backup is that they can read the writing on the ticket, and any other evidence, and apply some intelligence.
(And, yes, automatic gatelines should be scrapped....but that's a different question )

 

[blacknight]

Er, not really. The whole point of having a human as backup is that they can read the writing on the ticket, and any other evidence, and apply some intelligence.
(And, yes, automatic gatelines should be scrapped....but that's a different question )

I agree with second part of your post but take issue with the first part just because ticket as an expiry date don't mean it ain't been used.
Say for example I noticed a certain gate was not putting black line on ticket then I could then reuse the ticket at a later date, gate would say ticket as expired so gateline assistant as to make a judgement call. First rule of revenue protection is you are guilty.

 

[Oswyntail]

I agree with second part of your post but take issue with the first part just because ticket as an expiry date don't mean it ain't been used.
Say for example I noticed a certain gate was not putting black line on ticket then I could then reuse the ticket at a later date, gate would say ticket as expired so gateline assistant as to make a judgement call.

That's why I mentioned other evidence.

First rule of revenue protection is you are guilty.

I do hope you simply forgot the smiley on this

 

[jon0844]

I think that's actually taken from the FCC training manual!

 

[blacknight]

That's why I mentioned other evidence.

If gate is not black lining then there would be no other evidence as such you would have an apparently indate ticket which ticket gate as rejected as expired.
Question is who do you believe passenger or ticket gate please just don't make out staff are numpties that cannot read.

 

[aleph_0]

If gate is not black lining then there would be no other evidence as such you would have an apparently indate ticket which ticket gate as rejected as expired.
Question is who do you believe passenger or ticket gate please just don't make out staff are numpties.

If the magnetic strip information is considered sufficiently useful, there should be readers at the gatelines, so the ticket can politely verified. Legitimate customers shouldn't be detained while the ticket is taken off to be investigated. If one insists on detaining the customer, then when they are exonerated, I would expect staff to apologise for the time wasted and implication of guilt.

As a normal customer who has been stopped travelling on a legitimate ticket by gateline staff (SWT staff not knowing that different Super Off Peak tickets have different restrictions, and refusing to check), and given the cases that trickle onto this forum, I now fear the revenue protection aspect of the business. This surely can't be right?

As always, I think rail staff are great, any problems here are with the training/policies of the companies.

 

[blacknight]

If the magnetic strip information is considered sufficiently useful, there should be readers at the gatelines, so the ticket can politely verified. Legitimate customers shouldn't be detained while the ticket is taken off to be investigated. If one insists on detaining the customer, then when they are exonerated, I would expect staff to apologise for the time wasted and implication of guilt.

Companies are too tight even to provide simple ticket clippers, so I would not expect introduction of ticket readers in the near future

 

[island]

Any ticket selling machine can also read tickets, as far as I know, so where a gateline has an Avantix Mobile on for selling on arrival, it should be able to be used too.

 

[blacknight]

I think that's actually taken from the FCC training manual!

You forgot companies new mantra Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen

 

[Wolfie]

My new mantra "Don't get mad, get even".

Were I detained for even one minute in such a situation the Daily Mail and my MP would immediately be involved. If TOCs wish to inconvenience passengers, whether it be through crap training or inadequate equipment, they deserve to be clobbered appropriately and if I am involved they will be!!!

PR damage of repeated "bad news" stories in the media, possible consequences come renewal time for the franchise....they deserve it!!!

 

[GB]

Do you really think the media or your MP would care over a delay of one minute?

 

[AlterEgo]

Were I detained for even one minute in such a situation the Daily Mail and my MP would immediately be involved.

I suspect they wouldn't care.

Is society really at the stage where we will sue people and kick up a storm over one minute?

I hope not. Life's too short.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

My new mantra "Don't get mad, get even".

Were I detained for even one minute in such a situation the Daily Mail and my MP would immediately be involved. If TOCs wish to inconvenience passengers, whether it be through crap training or inadequate equipment, they deserve to be clobbered appropriately and if I am involved they will be!!!

PR damage of repeated "bad news" stories in the media, possible consequences come renewal time for the franchise....they deserve it!!!

Fantastic. Justice is no longer decided by 3 or 12 good and true people on the basis of evidence, but by how much of a fuss you can kick up about it.

 

[Greenback]

In my opinion, being delayed for a minute while something is checked or double checked is not being detained at all. That said, the consequnces of even a short delay when trying to make a train could have consequences for the individual, which I would hope would be mitgated as far as reasonably possible by the TOC responsible.

In some circumstances the delay could be long enough to have serious consequences, for example a missed job interview. TOC's need to be more aware of this aspect of travelling. They need to realise that poor training can have serious consequences, and if these sorts of things are not brought to their attention when they occur nothing will ever improve.

 

[Wolfie]

In my opinion, being delayed for a minute while something is checked or double checked is not being detained at all. That said, the consequnces of even a short delay when trying to make a train could have consequences for the individual, which I would hope would be mitgated as far as reasonably possible by the TOC responsible.

In some circumstances the delay could be long enough to have serious consequences, for example a missed job interview. TOC's need to be more aware of this aspect of travelling. They need to realise that poor training can have serious consequences, and if these sorts of things are not brought to their attention when they occur nothing will ever improve.

Spot on, far too many big enterprises (not only TOCs) think they can treat customers appallingly and yet when said customer steps one iota outside the rules, can clobber them.

What is sauce for the goose.....

Am about to sue easyJet for such an issue.

 

[bnm]

Is society really at the stage where we will sue people and kick up a storm over one minute?

I hope not. Life's too short.

Even shorter when you add up all those wasted minutes.

 

[blacknight]

Spot on, far too many big enterprises (not only TOCs) think they can treat customers appallingly and yet when said customer steps one iota outside the rules, can clobber them.

What is sauce for the goose.....

Am about to sue easyJet for such an issue.

Just remember it is enshrined in railway byelaws that when requested to do so by member of staff passenger shall produce a valid ticket for journey being made. So in effect you are detaining yourself by attempting to argue you are in the right.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

PR damage of repeated "bad news" stories in the media, possible consequences come renewal time for the franchise....they deserve it!!!

If TOC's capitulate to every customer demands they wont have made enough money to be able to bid for next franchise.

 

[Deerfold]

Just remember it is enshrined in railway byelaws that when requested to do so by member of staff passenger shall produce a valid ticket for journey being made. So in effect you are detaining yourself by attempting to argue you are in the right.

What? The OP *did* produce a valid (and uncomplicated) ticket.

If TOC's capitulate to every customer demands they wont have made enough money to be able to bid for next franchise.

[/QUOTE]

Most of them seem to be managing better than your average business at the moment.

 

[Greenback]

What? The OP *did* produce a valid (and uncomplicated) ticket.

That's right. I have defended the staff member because I think it is more likely than not that they made an honest mistake. As a representative of atOC, the company is ultimately responsible for the failures of their staff, and this is particularly true if it arises from poor or insufficient training, or from briefings or leadership that inspire their staff to treat customers as criminals.

 

[sheff1]

Just remember it is enshrined in railway byelaws that when requested to do so by member of staff passenger shall produce a valid ticket for journey being made. So in effect you are detaining yourself by attempting to argue you are in the right.

So, when I presented the valid ticket, as per the byelaws, and the attendant refused to accept it was valid, then the subsequent delay was my fault for insisting it was valid.

If SWT Customer Services take that line in their reply, I will most certainly be taking things further.

 

[ess]

The issue here is that some people employed as gateline staff are intelligent and others are not. That is not a critical point rather a fact. Some have a positive customer attitude, some average, some poor. Rail ticketing is really complicated and less intelligent staff with a poor attitude make for a poor travel experience because they don't understand. THOSE ones should be sacked but that is difficult, expensive and might not fix the problem.

 

[Oswyntail]

... That said, the consequnces of even a short delay when trying to make a train could have consequences for the individual, which I would hope would be mitgated as far as reasonably possible by the TOC responsible.....

I am sure we might find someone on this forum who will say it is the passenger's responsibility to plan his journey time so as to allow sufficient opportunities for hold-ups