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Zimbabwe Army moves to successfully oust Mugabe

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Trainfan344

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Lots going on in Zimbabwe right now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-41994362

Summary
  1. Zimbabwe's army takes over the national broadcaster, ZBC
  2. BBC correspondent says it has "all the elements of a coup"
  3. President Robert Mugabe is safe but reportedly being held
  4. The army challenged Mr Mugabe after he sacked the vice-president
  5. Finance Minister Ignatius Chombo among those reportedly arrested
  6. British citizens in Harare urged to stay indoors

Looks like this is the end for Mugabe
 
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DarloRich

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what could possibly go wrong with a military take over that isnt, honest, a coup ;) Good that Mugabe may be got rid of. Who takes over?
 

AlterEgo

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A lot of the news is coming from Harare, quite obviously. I’d be wary of unilaterally calling this the end for Mugabe. He’s got a lot of support outside the capital. I have no idea how this will end.
 

Steveman

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The BBC making itself look utterly stupid yet again this morning on its Twitter, live blog and Today show by quoting a ZANU PF twitter account as gospel.
With a bit of checking they would discover it's a joke parody account, but nowadays that's the BBC in an nutshell totally incapable of telling the truth.
They would be well advised to spend more money on simple research rather than making Claudia Winkleman a multimillionaire

"It's the unique way we're funded."
 

Steveman

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It has been known for some time that its his wife the army don't want in power as she's worse than him and as Mugabe won't be around much longer it looks like they've decided to move now.
 

Groningen

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Robert Mugabe wanted that his wife Grace would take over if he died. I did not see this coming! Maybe expect, but not in this way.
 

90sWereBetter

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but nowadays that's the BBC in an nutshell totally incapable of telling the truth.
They would be well advised to spend more money on simple research rather than making Claudia Winkleman a multimillionaire

"It's the unique way we're funded."

I was unaware Claudia Winkleman had anything to do with Zimbabwe. It's almost as if you've got an axe to grind...
 

Steveman

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I was unaware Claudia Winkleman had anything to do with Zimbabwe. It's almost as if you've got an axe to grind...

Can't you understand the point that if the BBC which is funded with billions and billions of pounds can't get basic facts right it shouldn't be paying very poor presenters unbelievable sums of taxpayers money.
 

90sWereBetter

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Can't you understand the point that if the BBC which is funded with billions and billions of pounds can't get basic facts right it shouldn't be paying very poor presenters unbelievable sums of taxpayers money.

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man. ;)

Moving swiftly on, one of the more humorous things I've read about Zimbabwe's recent history is that the government actually made inflation illegal in 2007. Like, how bad/corrupt do your ministers have to be to think that's a solution to the economy. :lol:

I do wonder how long Mugabe will live if he gives up power. I get the feeling he's lasted this long because he's kept busy and active.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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My issue here is that it's through a military takeover, because a coup d'eat is never a pretty event. I can't think of any country that's well-off when such a thing happens. On the other hand though, I am glad to see that tyrant Mugabe being removed from power. It's just not his time at the moment, he already got removed as a World Health Organisation Goodwill Ambassador, now he's lost the power he's been clinging onto for years. I'm not quite sure the white farmers are going to be holding their breath yet though...
 

Busaholic

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Maybe it isn't the end. But sooner or later, his time will come...

Ai his age, sooner rather than later. Given that his wife has decamped to Namibia, his health will probably deteriorate rather quickly now.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Ai his age, sooner rather than later. Given that his wife has decamped to Namibia, his health will probably deteriorate rather quickly now.

Yeah, sooner rather than later is preferable. As long as it's before David Attenborough though, I will be satisfied :p :lol:
 

AlterEgo

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My issue here is that it's through a military takeover, because a coup d'eat is never a pretty event. I can't think of any country that's well-off when such a thing happens.

Depends on how short or long term you’re talking. I can think of several examples very close to Britain that have done well out of armed coups replacing a functioning government.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Depends on how short or long term you’re talking. I can think of several examples very close to Britain that have done well out of armed coups replacing a functioning government.

You make a good point there actually. If Mugabe is out of power, then Zimbabwe might get someone who is much better than him, which we couldn't see happening if he wasn't overthrown right now. We'll have to wait and see. But for knowledge's sake, what countries have done well out of them near Britain? The answers may surprise me... ;)
 

AlterEgo

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You make a good point there actually. If Mugabe is out of power, then Zimbabwe might get someone who is much better than him, which we couldn't see happening if he wasn't overthrown right now. We'll have to wait and see. But for knowledge's sake, what countries have done well out of them near Britain? The answers may surprise me... ;)

Long term overall benefit, and if we broaden the concept of a coup to any armed deposition of an elected government by force? You don’t have to look far. Ireland’s one. I’m thinking about the successful insurrection in the Irish War of Independence rather that the other significant coup-by-proxy Ireland experienced much longer ago, the Glorious Revolution.

Many other European countries have installed or deposed governments via armed insurrection and many of them saw overall benefit. Bulgaria and Romania are two other examples. France has had several, the most recent being in 1958. Greece has had probably even more.
 

Busaholic

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Many other European countries have installed or deposed governments via armed insurrection and many of them saw overall benefit. Bulgaria and Romania are two other examples. France has had several, the most recent being in 1958. Greece has had probably even more.

Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968 I remember, even Paris 1967 and the 'student riots' (I shared two flats in Amsterdam in 1969 with two guys who'd been involved in those) but France 1958? I take it you're referring to events in Algeria and the consequent return of de Gaulle to power as President but there was no armed insurrection in France, beyond a few local difficulties in Corsica.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Well then, if all these coup d'etats end up resulting in something brilliant, then bring it on for Zimbabwe. Maybe they'll get someone who is willing to do what's right, or maybe they'll get someone worse. Fingers crossed.
 

AlterEgo

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Well then, if all these coup d'etats end up resulting in something brilliant, then bring it on for Zimbabwe. Maybe they'll get someone who is willing to do what's right, or maybe they'll get someone worse. Fingers crossed.

Coups are often not very good and can have unintended consequences, particularly in the short term. There have however been an awful lot more than you’d realise without flicking through a history book.

I’d apply the Saddam principle. Sure, you can get rid of a b*****d, but then what? It’s not about getting a “good guy” in - what passes for a good guy by contemporary Western standards isn’t necessarily what’s needed.

*coups d’etat ;)
 

Up_Tilt_390

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I’d apply the Saddam principle. Sure, you can get rid of a b*****d, but then what? It’s not about getting a “good guy” in - what passes for a good guy by contemporary Western standards isn’t necessarily what’s needed.

We all know how post-Saddam has gone so far. The kind of good guy that is needed is one who is willing to allow actual qualified and competent farmers to run the farms for one thing instead of political supporters who do not wish to do any farming nor have the willpower to learn. This is just one reason why Mugabe fails his people: he'd much rather have his own citizens die of starvation because of no food than allow the white man to have any trace of power in Zimbabwe even if it means the best for them.
 

Butts

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I wonder how Rhodesia would be faring if it was still under White Rule - it was once "The Bread Basket of Africa". Salisbury was a thriving Capital and cosmopolitan City. Mugabe reduced it to "The Basket Case of Africa".

It strikes me a lot of ordinary Africans all over the Continent are probably a lot worse off than in the Colonial Era. They may have their freedom - or have they looking at the repressive corrupt regimes operating in most Countries.

"Black Despots" seem worse than their white predecessors.
 

najaB

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Care to explain how Robert Mugabe was better for Rhodesia than Ian Smith and more importantly it's people Black and White ?
Your post referred to "ordinary Africans all over the Continent", so my post was in reply to that, not Robert Mugabe specifically.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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I think in regards to some of these black despots, some of them have left their countries worse off. In the case of Mugabe, he was bad, but beforehand it wasn't much better. Much like South Africa there was an apartheid government that was ruled by whites who weren't exactly the friendliest to their citizens. Mugabe on the other hand is bad in a different way. He's thrown out white supremacy in favour of black supremacy, even though the result is that Zimbabwe is now worse off than before.

This shows just how far judging people by skin colour can take you, because Mugabe would rather his own people die than let whites have the farms, regardless of the fact that there's now a food shortage because of people who aren't farmers, nor who are interested in learning the skills. Yes, under white rule Zimbabwe had no food shortages and had active farms, but that doesn't mean much in the broader sense when it comes to living under an apartheid government. I'm hoping that these two periods happening in succession will shape Zimbabwe to be a better country once Mugabe is gone for good.
 

Harbouring

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I agree Zimbabwe might be better off without Mugabe, and this recent takeover is to ensure that the going forward the despotic regime doesn’t continue after Mugabe. It seems to be a bloodless coup to restore democracy and order and we’ll see if the new person who ends up in charge is better or worse for the people.

Whilst I think it might be feasible to say that some of post colonial Africa is as a whole worse off than during colonial times however this fails to address that it was probably at it it’s best during pre colonial times. The idea of the different “countries” of Africa is very much a western colonial idea and areas were carved up and separated according to ideals of colonial rulers. We can’t go back and this is the issue, borders were drawn that can’t be erased and communities divided that cannot be reunited. The situation in Post colonial Zimbabwe allowed Mugabe to take power and hold onto it for so long.
 

Up_Tilt_390

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Post deleted due to ongoing research of previously posted information.
 
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furnessvale

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I agree Zimbabwe might be better off without Mugabe, and this recent takeover is to ensure that the going forward the despotic regime doesn’t continue after Mugabe. It seems to be a bloodless coup to restore democracy and order and we’ll see if the new person who ends up in charge is better or worse for the people.
It is my understanding that it is a bloodless coup BY the ruling Zanu-PF party who have seen their higher ranking members gradually picked off and sacked by Mugabe with the aim of having his wife Grace left as the only candidate to replace him when he goes.

Any thoughts of replacing a despotic regime with democracy are misplaced.
 
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