Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central - 3 carriages only?

[Perns1972]

Hello there,

I wonder whether anyone can tell me whether FGW only ever run three carriages on the Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central route?

I've heard that this service gets very crowded and I wondered whether this is because it's only ever served by a three carriage train?

Many thanks.

 

[ushawk]

Because there arent any other extra carriages to add on ?

That said, weekend services can get extra coaches added as there are some spare, but i dont think this is the case on weekdays.

 

[Muzer]

I don't go on it much but I've never seen more than three.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's not that long ago that they only ran two car 158s.

It seems to me that the only time they are longer than 3 cars is if they use a pair of 150s or something because the normal 3.158s aren't available. Bear in mind that nearly all of FGW's 3.158s are formed of a 'unit and a half', so getting a pair of 158s to run together is not usually possible.

 

[Waldgrun]

I remember that just prior to the use of Sprinters (Class 155) on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route, most trains where formed of a Class 33 hauling 4 x 64 seat Mk1 T.S.O. and a MK 1 B.G. Full brake. A total of 256 seats and plenty of luggage space! Which was needed most Friday Lunchtimes when "Jack Tar" went home!
When sprinters where introduced a lot of services went from 1 train every 2 hours to hourly, I admit that they where smaller length trains but, when the seat numbers where added together there was nearly the same amount of seats available, in the same time period.
The Portsmouth to Cardiff route remained hourly but suffered with a reduction in seating which has never been corrected.

 

[musicking1306]

Cardiff - Portsmouth services are normally 2-3 cars mostly because when you travel out of rush hour it is dead! I traveled from Portsmouth to Bristol on Friday 1st Feb 2013 on the 11:19 from Portsmouth and at times I was the only person in the carriage. I must admit it did get a bit busier from Westbury. The lack of stock and where it is stabled would mean that to add carriages on would require them to work from Bristol and that takes a while and cost on Empty stock moves just put ticket prices up!

 

[PHILIPE]

There was a hint back in 2010 that FGW might get some 4 Coach 172s to work the route which were being constructed for LM and Chiltern (not all 4) but after their long drawn out deliberations, DFT bancelled it.
The answer the OP is that this a universal complaint with a standard reply:
"Because there aint anything else"

 

[Lrd]

Cardiff - Portsmouth services are normally 2-3 cars mostly because when you travel out of rush hour it is dead! I traveled from Portsmouth to Bristol on Friday 1st Feb 2013 on the 11:19 from Portsmouth and at times I was the only person in the carriage. I must admit it did get a bit busier from Westbury. The lack of stock and where it is stabled would mean that to add carriages on would require them to work from Bristol and that takes a while and cost on Empty stock moves just put ticket prices up!

I have to disagree, all the services I have travelled on, whether that be Southampton - Portsmouth or Southampton - Bristol/Cardiff have all been well loaded throughout the day in both directions. It may not be the same passengers throughout but you get a lot of people doing Pompey - Southampton, Southampton - Bristol, Westbury - Bath Spa/Bristol, Bath Spa - Bristol and Bristol - Cardiff, therefore the busiest section would be Bath Spa - Bristol which is almost always full and standing.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was a hint back in 2010 that FGW might get some 4 Coach 172s to work the route which were being constructed for LM and Chiltern (not all 4) but after their long drawn out deliberations, DFT bancelled it...

It was a bit earlier than that. This is from the DfT's Electrification white paper in Jul 2009:

This electrification programme radically affects the requirements for rolling stock over the next decade. There will be far less need for diesel trains and a greater requirement for electric trains. In particular, the previously-planned procurement by the Government of new diesel trains has now been superseded. We will accordingly publish a new rolling stock plan in the autumn, taking account of the changed circumstances.

That was the end of the extra DMUs for GW and others - (and although the ITT had been issued in November 2008, by mid 2009 nothing had been decided) so no cash was wasted...

 

[Birdbrain]

I agree, almost everytime i have travelled this route it was full and standing. Even last Sunday on the 2031 from Salisbury to Portsmouth it was full and standing! There is just no spare stock to use. How i wish a 33 and some Mk1s could be used again!

 

[musicking1306]

I have to disagree, all the services I have travelled on, whether that be Southampton - Portsmouth or Southampton - Bristol/Cardiff have all been well loaded throughout the day in both directions. It may not be the same passengers throughout but you get a lot of people doing Pompey - Southampton, Southampton - Bristol, Westbury - Bath Spa/Bristol, Bath Spa - Bristol and Bristol - Cardiff, therefore the busiest section would be Bath Spa - Bristol which is almost always full and standing.

I would agree with the busiest section is between Bath and Bristol however a 3 car 158 can cope with that outside of rush hour. In rush hour a 3 car 158 cannot cope and would probably need a 6 car for everybody to get a seat. This brings us back to the problem being disused about stock above!

 

[D6975]

I remember that just prior to the use of Sprinters (Class 155) on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route, most trains where formed of a Class 33 hauling 4 x 64 seat Mk1 T.S.O. and a MK 1 B.G. Full brake. A total of 256 seats and plenty of luggage space! Which was needed most Friday Lunchtimes when "Jack Tar" went home!

Not quite.
At the end Pompeys were 4 Mk1 SKs with a Mk 2 BFK in the middle of the rake. TSOs were almost unheard of on Pompeys.
Prior to the arrival of the Mk 2s, a rake was typically 3 SKs, 1 BSK and 1 CK.
Scratch sets were not unknown though - we had a rake with 3 BSKs in it for a while.

 

[ValleyLines142]

This is something I've always never understood. First Great Western have stated several times that there's a national shortage of carriages, but how are some services in London formed of twelve coaches and in FGW land why is the 1700 Cardiff to Taunton booked for a 150/9 or 158+153 and the 0730 Cardiff to Portsmouth booked for a 158+150? Something clearly doesn't add up.

 

[yorkie]

Something clearly doesn't add up.

Hmm, just a thought, but could it be that you are comparing electrical multiple units with diesel multiple units?

Is it also possible that there is exponentially more demand for travel in the London area?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hmm, just a thought, but could it be that you are comparing electrical multiple units with diesel multiple units?

Is it also possible that there is exponentially more demand for travel in the London area?

Not always. Point I'm saying is that there are several FGW services that are formed of more than one unit.

 

[Greenback]

Not always. Point I'm saying is that there are several FGW services that are formed of more than one unit.

Are you saying that because FGW do manage to run a few trains with more than one unit, that this means they should be able to add units to every service on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route?

The fact is that there are not enough units to cover every overcrowded route in FGW land, never mind the rest of the UK.

 

[PHILIPE]

This is something I've always never understood. First Great Western have stated several times that there's a national shortage of carriages, but how are some services in London formed of twelve coaches and in FGW land why is the 1700 Cardiff to Taunton booked for a 150/9 or 158+153 and the 0730 Cardiff to Portsmouth booked for a 158+150? Something clearly doesn't add up.

Both these are heavily loaded commuter services. the 07 30 has a 150 attached only to Bristol Temple Meads for the morning rush. I don't think many people would be happy if what strengthening there is was to be removed !!!

 

[AndyLandy]

I don't go on it much but I've never seen more than three.

Last time I was on that run was on a Sunday and they laid on a six-car formation, comprised of a pair of three-car 158s. Given their three-car 158s are themselves comprised of 1.5 2-car 158 sets, a six-car set is quite the sight to behold!

 

[David Goddard]

Would not necessarily solve the capacity issue, but I have long been of the belief that the Cardiff - Portsmouth and Bristol - Weymouth services would be better operated by South West Trains, as part of the Salisbury depot operation.

 

[Muzer]

Would not necessarily solve the capacity issue, but I have long been of the belief that the Cardiff - Portsmouth and Bristol - Weymouth services would be better operated by South West Trains, as part of the Salisbury depot operation.

I'd rather like this... it's very unlikely IMHO, but well, they've already taken over the job of providing local services in the Romsey/Southampton area, and very nice they are too now... (which interestingly means it's one of these special places where you have stations (Dean and Mottisfont & Dunbridge) owned by one TOC (FGW) but exclusively served by another (SWT)). It'd be lovely for them to take over Wessex Main Line too but I don't see this happening unless SWT and FGW combine into a super-franchise and Stagecoach manage to retain it.

 

[TEW]

If anything it would be better if FGW could take over the Salisbury figure of 6 services, cascading 150s to them where they are much more suited and using the extra 158s for long distance services. The Southampton local services may well be nice but it is a completely inappropriate use of 158s that could be put much better to use elsewhere.

 

[Muzer]

If anything it would be better if FGW could take over the Salisbury figure of 6 services, cascading 150s to them where they are much more suited and using the extra 158s for long distance services. The Southampton local services may well be nice but it is a completely inappropriate use of 158s that could be put much better to use elsewhere.

Yeah, I agree, I would be quite happy with a 150 on those short distances, and they would be much better elsewhere. But, well, SWT have a whole load of them and they don't want to maintain more than one type of diesel, so I'm very glad for what I get there

What's the history behind that local service, anyway (with regards to why it went to SWT and not FGW) - I know it's actually a new service (before, those stations were served by other trains occasionally stopping there, AFAIK, I might be wrong... I don't know how the Southampton local ones were served), I don't know if SWT actually had involvement in creating it.

 

[TEW]

They used to run Romsey-Totton services with the 170s, with FGW making calls at Dean and Mottisfont and Dumbridge somewhat irregularly, mainly in the Southampton rather than Portsmouth-Cardiff services. Around the time SWT swapped the 170s for 158s and gained the 159/1s the service was reconfigured as Salisbury-Romsey via Southampton. If FGW gained some extra 158s instead of SWT they could have used them to increase the service along there instead, if that was what the DfT directed of course.

 

[Muzer]

Presumably before Chandler's Ford was reopened it was Totton to Eastleigh instead of Romsey?

 

[Lrd]

Presumably before Chandler's Ford was reopened it was Totton to Eastleigh instead of Romsey?

No, as far as I know, it used to be Romsey, just without the stop at Chandlers Ford.

I think that SWT should get some more EMUs and cascade as many 158s as possible to FGW, perhaps keeping a few for the Romsey 6s and keeping the 159s on Waterloo-West of England services. Perhaps SWT should withdraw the diesels from Fratton depot if at all possible, with Salisbury depot learning the Pompey direct line as a diversionary route, if they don't already do so.

I'm ready for slandering coming my way imminently

 

[TheWalrus]

I personally don't see much point in the Salisbury 6 anyway, whenever I've seen it it was lightly loaded with about 3 passengers on it! Why they felt they needed to increase the service to places like Dean I'm not sure. I'm sure most places are more deserving of a service improvement!

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably before Chandler's Ford was reopened it was Totton to Eastleigh instead of Romsey?

Before Chandlers Ford opened all the calls at the minor stations (ie Swaythling, St Denys, Millbrook, Redbridge and Totton) were made by EMUs on the Waterloo services. The DMU service between Totton and Romsey via Eastleigh replaced mainline calls initially, there was no direct equivalent to the service prior to it beginning.

 

[fgwrich]

Before Chandlers Ford opened all the calls at the minor stations (ie Swaythling, St Denys, Millbrook, Redbridge and Totton) were made by EMUs on the Waterloo services. The DMU service between Totton and Romsey via Eastleigh replaced mainline calls initially, there was no direct equivalent to the service prior to it beginning.

Wasnt this originally done to coincide with a possible service down to Marchwood at one point aswell?

 

[tbtc]

This route could do with more capacity, but then so could other "cross country routes that were part of Provincial in BR days and therefore a low priority" like Liverpool - Norwich, Stansted - Birmingham...

In a few years time there'll be EMUs doing the Cardiff - Bristol part of the service, with DMUs spared enhancing capacity on the Portsmouth end (presumably split at Bristol).

 

[Drsatan]

Wasnt this originally done to coincide with a possible service down to Marchwood at one point aswell?

Possibly, although I think there were plans to run an all-stations service from Romsey to Lymington (replacing the Brockenhurst-Lymington service) via Eastleigh.