Ticket barriers to be unused at Kings Cross

[jon0844]

Gates and onboard checks, with regular police assisted stings that will frequently catch people with outstanding warrants etc.

All working together would have huge results and no doubt reduce anti social behaviour too.

But the accounts seem to disagree and accept a certain amount of loss, which then sends out the wrong signals. But, hey, this has been a complaint of mine for over ten years and probably will for another ten.

Getting rid of gates would be stupid in my opinion, even if some TOCs don't feel the need for them.

 

[Flamingo]

I think the point is that you idealy need both.

If you board Flamingo's train without a ticket because the barriers are open, you can have the whole argument about running late/thought it was OK to buy on-board/whatever.

If you board Flamingo's train with a cheap single because the barriers are closed, the moment he reaches you and asks for your ticket, you're instantly in deep s**t. Either you lie "I haven't got one" at which point he asks "How'd you get through the barriers then, eh?" or you reveal your invalid ticket, at which point it's open-and-shut that you were trying to avoid paying the correct fare.

And, if they have a cheap ticket the railway has had some money out of them, not given a free ride, which has to be better, and even knowing they have to part with some money puts off the worst troublemakers.

 

[stut]

Well, they were out with the foam fingers directing people away from the side barriers at KX this morning, so I guess the intention is to make the one-way system permanent.

It would seem more appropriate to make a foam middle finger and stick it up towards Caledonian Road. All that money to make a station less user-friendly...

 

[jon0844]

The bridge over platforms 1-8 is also another mess. I can't remember what they've decided to do now, but surely it needed either two escalators (and lift) or one escalator and steps (plus lift) to allow people to use it from either direction. The lift is far too slow, and bloody tiny too!

I'm beginning to wonder why they even bothered to keep the bridge and put in the lifts/escalators as most people will probably just go around on ground level. And if that was the aim anyway, why the massive expense of lifts/escalators that will frequently fail?

 

[stut]

ISTR that a lot of the design for the bridge was restricted by what English Heritage would and would not allow. Actually, I find it incredibly useful to get to the front of 12-car trains (and to get across from the platform 0 bike racks to platform 8-9).

However, what it inevitably leads to is a massive crowd on the restricted-width part of the balcony (where there's a good view of the departure boards) when a platform is announced late...

 

[HowardGWR]

Hmm, barriers still like that this evening. Really hope this isn't a trend - it'll be tedious beyond belief to have to walk round from York Way to Pancras Rd to get back to platform 0 every day!

I am looking at the station map (downloaded from NR page) and it does not shew entrance or exit barriers on York Way. Is the map wrong then?

 

[Deerfold]

I am looking at the station map (downloaded from NR page) and it does not shew entrance or exit barriers on York Way. Is the map wrong then?

The entrance/exit from/to York Way has gone. It was demolished just a few weeks ago. If you're looking at the map at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_KGX/plan.html?rtnloc=KGX

It's way, way out of date.

However, what it inevitably leads to is a massive crowd on the restricted-width part of the balcony (where there's a good view of the departure boards) when a platform is announced late...

Yes, I find that really annoying on the way to the 1st class lounge.

 

[jon0844]

It's way, way out of date.

Bloody hell! How could they forget to update this?

Mind you, the maps look bloody awful (not just King's Cross but all of the stations).

 

[HowardGWR]

The entrance/exit from/to York Way has gone. It was demolished just a few weeks ago. If you're looking at the map at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_KGX/plan.html?rtnloc=KGX

It's way, way out of date.

No funnily enough, I ended up here.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/london-kings-cross-station/departures-arrivals/

Down on the lower rhs of that page, one can download a file that looks more up to date. But is it?

 

[stut]

Indeed so - the York Way exit has been closed.

The barrier line opposite platforms 1/2 has been removed as well, and replaced with a fence and manual gate. (This is now something of a bottleneck when you get trains arriving at the low-numbered platforms quite close together).

All the other exit barriers lead out on to the new square. This means that anyone heading for, say, Thameslink needs to head out and then double back round. Previously, they left 1-2 barriers on each of the exit (to the square) and entrance (from the western concourse) running against the flow, but these have gone.

The most annoying impact of this is the access from the York Way side (whether by foot, on bus, on bike, or even from the very handy Tesco Metro). You now have to cross the full square (particularly fun if people are exiting) and double back round to get into the station from the Western concourse. This is particularly irritating if you're trying to get to platform 0, given you can see it from where you started!

It can add a few minutes on to a journey. Enough to miss a train. But the thing is - I never once saw any negative impact to the pragmatic (one-against-the-flow) layout they had during the building works.

It seems, once again, to be a case of strongly inconveniencing a minority for a marginal benefit to the majority.

 

[jon0844]

I can't see the harm in having one or two gates open for entry near platform 0. I can't see that many people wishing to use it, and even if they did, they'd have to wait and filter through.

I can see why it's a good idea to split the exit to the square, and the entry from the concourse - but at the same time, it's silly that you have to come out of the station and walk along a covered section that is unlikely to protect you from the elements, like cold biting winds, and rain that will also get you when it's sufficiently windy.

I do expect there will be some tweaks made in the coming months, and no doubt bigger changes a few years down the line.

St Pancras had loads of issues for ages, mostly poor signage, and that's gradually been improved (even though I still believe there's an odd sign under the SouthEastern platforms that points in the wrong direction to the lift).

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've not come across the big crowds on the balcony, IME most EC passengers are still blissfully unaware of it and dutifully march around on the ground floor.

I'd agree about the passenger flows too, there should be a couple of entry gates round at York Road side for people to enter. I don't see what problem it would cause to allow this, but then quite a few of the decisions made at Kings Cross make no sense.

But when I feel myself complaining too much about the crowd managementl, I look at a picture of the old portakabin and remember what it used to be like.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/ht...tml?rtnloc=KGX

It's way, way out of date.

Stations Made Difficult is wrong? Surely you jest.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Gates and onboard checks, with regular police assisted stings that will frequently catch people with outstanding warrants etc.


Hugely effective ,as I can prove on the North London Line in the bad days of it being a bandit railway - the BTP and Met trawled some excellent results on this NYC "broken windows" policy when they did a few excercises. My favourite character was one guy at Willesden Jct who kicked off over a £1.90 fare , assaulted my 2 workmates , was just out of Pentonville , had a stolen bike and class "A" drugs on him in some quantity. Shall we say he was returned to HMP custody. The Police described it as a good evenings work. Certainly the staff approved at seeing this going on.

 

[sheff1]

St Pancras had loads of issues for ages, mostly poor signage, and that's gradually been improved

Hmm. Now they have made the escalators nearest to the EMT platforms both down only it means, if you arrive on Thameslink or SET, you have to walk some distance in the wrong direction, through the crowds of sightseers and shoppers, to use the other escalators (both now up only) or risk the lift. I never encountered any problems when both pairs of escalators were one up and one down, so don't know what the thinking was but it is certainly not an improvement.

 

[krus_aragon]

ATW as well, I believe, from talking to them.

Not as a blanket rule. They certainly have two members of staff on the main gateline at Cardiff Central for example, one to serve departing passengers, and one for arriving passengers. Up at Colwyn Bay, however, there's only one member of staff on the (small) gateline.

 

[Flamingo]

Not as a blanket rule. They certainly have two members of staff on the main gateline at Cardiff Central for example, one to serve departing passengers, and one for arriving passengers. Up at Colwyn Bay, however, there's only one member of staff on the (small) gateline.

I stand corrected

 

[Deerfold]

Was there something going on at King's Cross this morning?

Today we had BTP directing people away from the Western barriers.

 

[stut]

Not that I'm aware of - unless some people have been getting unduly upset about it (which I can't really see...)

For some reason they were directing people away from the Western exit barriers as well. Are they trying to make it as annoying as possible?

 

[Deerfold]

For some reason they were directing people away from the Western exit barriers as well. Are they trying to make it as annoying as possible?

As well as what? That's what they've been doing since Monday (see my post #51)

 

[stut]

As well as what? That's what they've been doing since Monday (see my post #51)

I mean, as well as directing people away from the western concourse gateline (now set to entry only), they're directing people arriving at platforms 0-5 away from the western half of the King's Cross Square gateline (despite it being set to exit, half empty, and there being a massive queue and the now reduced gateline due to two trains arriving simultaneously).

 

[Deerfold]

I mean, as well as directing people away from the western concourse gateline (now set to entry only), they're directing people arriving at platforms 0-5 away from the western half of the King's Cross Square gateline (despite it being set to exit, half empty, and there being a massive queue and the now reduced gateline due to two trains arriving simultaneously).

Ah yes, they did seem to be doing that - it's almost like it was when we had a gate there and only half a gateline.

Considered going up the steps and over the bridge as we came in on 0.

A notice at the bottom of the steps says "No exit or access to other platforms". That can't be right, surely?

 

[jon0844]

I'd rather they concentrate on revenue protection than trying to use scarce resources to guide people all around the station and then enforce new rules on where you can and can't go.

If it's necessary to have staff (or BTP) to guide people then it does suggest that whoever planned the passenger flows sort of messed up.

 

[swt_passenger]

A notice at the bottom of the steps says "No exit or access to other platforms". That can't be right, surely?

That is exactly how it was designed, it was explained in the planning application as a one way route for passengers who are coming FROM the waiting area on the mezzanine floor of the western concourse.

 

[stut]

A notice at the bottom of the steps says "No exit or access to other platforms". That can't be right, surely?

That's the idea - I think it's primarily a fire escape route (but well used by staff to get into the eastern range). Mind you, I've been using it to get from the platform 0 bike racks to p8/9 since it opened, without so much as an askance look.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Hilariously, last night they had the barriers at the Western Concourse set to entrance only, but the barriers at the front were wide open and unmanned.

Quite what that was supposed to achieve, goodness only knows.

 

[stut]

Back to "normal" this evening, with two gates set against the flow at the eastern end. Hope it continues - it's a little thing, but it really makes a difference.

 

[CockneySparrow]

The entrance/exit from/to York Way has gone. It was demolished just a few weeks ago. If you're looking at the map at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_KGX/plan.html?rtnloc=KGX

It's way, way out of date.

Yes quite a few of them maps from that site are out of date to be honest

Kings Lynns map hasn't been updated since electrification, still got four tracks between platforms when there is now only three

 

[CheekyBandit]

You can operate a ticket barrier with a cheap single.

I never seem to be able to operate Southeastern's ticket barriers with a perfectly valid ticket (issued at Sheffield). And then I get some excuse from gateline staff about a super off peak ticket not being valid on an early morning train (what part of the 'network area' rule don't they understand?) or not valid via HS1 because it had route Chesterfield on it as was a case from Sheffield to Stone Crossing (what part of easement 700283 don't they understand?). Maybe I should have asked them where I could see a crooked spire from a Southeaster train window?

And then the ones at Leeds don't accept my concessionary travel pass, of which South Yorkshire issued ones are perfectly valid on trains there (http://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/viewticket.aspx?id=916)

That is why I have a complete mistrust these ticket barriers, which caused me to walk through the open section at Moorfields when travelling home (I also wasn't 100% sure at the time if a Liverpool stations ticket could get me to Lime Street - would ask if challenged)

 

[pete_m911]

Ticketless travel is a massive problem on VT, people buying tickets to MK and no further. But then of course they are obligated to install ticket barriers in the near future. Has certainly left many of the RPOs on edge!

 

[northwichcat]

Ticketless travel is a massive problem on VT, people buying tickets to MK and no further. But then of course they are obligated to install ticket barriers in the near future. Has certainly left many of the RPOs on edge!

Are they? First Group proposed installing ticket barriers in their West Coast bid but Virgin did not propose doing that so it can't have been a franchise requirement. First Group did of course have their bid accepted which was then retracted.

The services which call at Milton Keynes are the Manchester and Chester/North Wales services standard pattern. Chester has ticket barriers and Stockport usually has RPIs checking tickets of passengers who alight trains going towards Manchester.

On a Virgin Train I was on recently someone an board ticket inspector found without a ticket asked for a Manchester to London single and didn't try to make out he boarded at a later station.