GWR Class 800

[sng7]

From what I have seen sliding doors are what is in use on the Japanese Bullet trains so there is a precedent for this usage

 

[Brunel]

I'm inclined to say that's as they're more concerned with the number of seats available. The majority of passengers won't have bikes nor oversized luggage.



In all honesty, if it's anything but an HST will you be happy?

As I work down Paddington way, I can assure you there are plenty of bikes and oversized luggage item put on the HSTs, especially at holiday times..

 

[asylumxl]

As I work down Paddington way, I can assure you there are plenty of bikes and oversized luggage item put on the HSTs, especially at holiday times..

Notice the careful wording of my post. The trains seat hundreds of people, correct? How many bikes are loaded onboard? I'm reasonably sure bike users will still be in the minority.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

We'd hope not, but it's better to have a back-up... Especially one so low-tech and simple to provide- I can't imagine it would add a huge amount to the total cost of the units.

just about zero cost / cost neutral if designed in from the outset ( afterall it's just a slot and pocket - usually in a trim moulding ) hugely expensive to retro fit

 

[samuelmorris]

It would probably make sense to ban such large bags on trains, rather than find ways to accommodate them, as it's quite amazing the sizes now available and the problems people have moving them around.

Not something that would work out too well for me I'm afraid - as a LAN party goer I periodically have to cart around an XL sized suitcase on the train. It's hard work, but I accept that as an inevitability with large luggage. When the luggage rack is full, I sit in the vestibule so the case remains supervised. No big deal, it's not exactly pleasant for a 2 hour journey but it's something I'm willing to do. On the other hand, I am staggered sometimes at the hostility I get from other passengers who would rather take the lower shelf on the luggage rack, despite the upper ones being empty, because 'I can't reach' - and even decline offers to be helped down with their case when they need to alight. I think a maximum size of suitcase to be officially supported by train luggage racks is fair, but I don't really see the necessity for banning them over a certain size.

 

[jon0844]

There are already size restrictions though aren't there? Can't remember what they are, and I'm not saying they're enforced, but they do exist.

Now if your bag can fit in the bottom of a luggage rack, it's probably not as big as the ones I've seen.

 

[samuelmorris]

Hmm, I'm curious then, as it's literally the biggest one I could lay my hands on - the depth requirements of carrying something that large in a suitcase make them surprisingly difficult to get hold of, such that it took 3 months to actually find one! Anyway, shan't derail the thread any further, but I do wonder... :P

 

[Techniquest]

It seems I'm in a small group of forum members who are looking forward to seeing the IEP. That said I was quite interested in the plans for the HST's replacement over 10 years back, which I believe was when the Siemens Ventura (I think that's what it was, it's been a long time since I read the relevant documents!) was being strongly considered by FGW.

I've watched that ITV News video (page 2 for those newcomers, like I was, to the thread) and I've got to say I'm liking much of what I see. I was already aware construction had begun in Japan, but I'm definitely interested in seeing the 800s and 801s for myself eventually.

As for the luggage topic, I must concur with jonmorris0844, in that some cases you see are ridiculously huge. Some people take several cases like those with them too, how they manage I don't know. So it's definitely something to bear in mind.

Regarding MK3 ride quality, I'd rather one of those to a MK4, Meridian or Voyager. Mind you, my last Voyager trip (Chesterfield to Birmingham New Street on my most unsatisfying Derbyshire Wayfarer trip, 7th April 2014) went by really smoothly. Plenty of legroom - it did help it was a pair of 220s so lots of seats - and I didn't really notice the engine noise.

Only a few years to go until we all get to see what the IEP is actually like, so best get cranking HSTs to/from Bristol and Swansea now!

 

[anthony263]

It seems I'm in a small group of forum members who are looking forward to seeing the IEP. That said I was quite interested in the plans for the HST's replacement over 10 years back, which I believe was when the Siemens Ventura (I think that's what it was, it's been a long time since I read the relevant documents!) was being strongly considered by FGW.

I've watched that ITV News video (page 2 for those newcomers, like I was, to the thread) and I've got to say I'm liking much of what I see. I was already aware construction had begun in Japan, but I'm definitely interested in seeing the 800s and 801s for myself eventually.

As for the luggage topic, I must concur with jonmorris0844, in that some cases you see are ridiculously huge. Some people take several cases like those with them too, how they manage I don't know. So it's definitely something to bear in mind.

Regarding MK3 ride quality, I'd rather one of those to a MK4, Meridian or Voyager. Mind you, my last Voyager trip (Chesterfield to Birmingham New Street on my most unsatisfying Derbyshire Wayfarer trip, 7th April 2014) went by really smoothly. Plenty of legroom - it did help it was a pair of 220s so lots of seats - and I didn't really notice the engine noise.

Only a few years to go until we all get to see what the IEP is actually like, so best get cranking HSTs to/from Bristol and Swansea now!

I am interested in seeing what IEP is like. For Hitachi this contract is a big opportunity for them and so they will want the trains to be as good as they can possibly be. I wouldnt exactly be surprised if they have read comments about the quality of the mark 3 carriages and incorporated it in the design.

As fo the hst's I do admit I have been trying to get as many trips on them as possible since we are only likely to have them in south wales for a few more years the same with the summer saturday London Paddington - Pembroke Dock services.

I do think I will have to try and arrange an overnight visit to Swansea especially seeing as I am a member of First group staff (Although one of their bus drivers)

 

[samuelmorris]

I too am looking forward to it, though such is the standard of current Mk3 refurbishment on some operators, that there won't be many feature improvements, just the 'feel of a new train' and performance improvements with acceleration hence better timetables (or at least you'd hope). I'm less critical of modern train interiors though, so I'll probably end up liking them more than others around here. (Case in point I find voyagers perfectly fine to travel on apart from the toilet smell). I just hope they don't pick up some of the interior rattles the 395s have - I'm not sure I'd want that squeak on a proper long-distance journey to somewhere like Edinburgh from Kings Cross.

 

[Bigfoot]

There are already size restrictions though aren't there? Can't remember what they are, and I'm not saying they're enforced, but they do exist.

Now if your bag can fit in the bottom of a luggage rack, it's probably not as big as the ones I've seen.

Taken from the NRCOC

CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE FOR LUGGAGE, ARTICLES, ANIMALS AND CYCLES

47. Accompanied luggage, articles and animals

You may take a single item of hand luggage that must be capable of being held in your lap if required, plus up to 2 items of luggage each not exceeding 30x70x90 cm in size.
Unless you are disabled or have reduced mobility and have made arrangements in advance for assistance, you should be able to manage your luggage without additional help.
Luggage is carried subject to sufficient space being available in the train service you wish to use. Luggage should not occupy seats intended for passengers; if it does so, it may be charged for as set out in Appendix B.

Additional items of luggage and larger items may be carried at an additional charge (as set out in Appendix B), but you should check in advance with the Train Company. Each Train Company provides information about their specific luggage conditions on request, and this can be found either from their website or from the Ticket Seller before you buy your ticket.

Some domestic animals are permitted to travel with you (as set out in Appendix B). Animals are not allowed on seats in any circumstances.

The terms, conditions and restrictions for the carriage of luggage, articles and animals are set out in Condition 49 and Appendix B.

30 70 90 cm suitcases aren't actually that big. Not for the other half anyway...

 

[shaun]

I am looking forward to the 800/801s quite a bit, but i do worry about those seats. Although visually they look like an improvement on the Voyager, there really isn't much padding for a 4-5 hour journey and the First Class seats although smart don't look that much wider either. When you board a Mk3/Mk4 or even an Adelante set, the difference between standard and first is very significant in which the seats are much better padded and alot wider. With Pendolinos and voyagers, there isn't much more width and the padding is the same as standard. This looks like it could be a repeat of that scenario. FGW are about to give their HSTs a refresh and the FC seats appear to offer alot more than these IEP ones. Also, windowless FC seats? Who would want to pay for those?!

Other than that though, they seem nice enough. Legroom looks good, they look quite spacious. 395s are very nice to travel in so can't see why these won't be, just hope they are a bit quieter and insulate alot of the underfloor noise when running on diesel.

 

[samuelmorris]

Just looked it up, 34 56 84 - so it's not really compliant on depth, but not as bad as I thought. 70cm width though? I'd have no idea where you'd find such a thing - very large width requirement is what made this so difficult to find, and that's only 56cm...
Anyway, bit of a digression going on

More on-topic, is it my imagination or do those standard class seats look like leather or faux-leather? Not sure if I really want that...

 

[jimm]

Also, windowless FC seats? Who would want to pay for those?

Well we could try the increasing numbers of people who seem to spend entire journeys staring at laptops, iPads, etc... what would they need a window for?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well we could try the increasing numbers of people who seem to spend entire journeys staring at laptops, iPads, etc... what would they need a window for?

Well exactly! Download stuff from the BBC iPlayer and you're entertained for hours! I love travelling by train and yet I seldom look out of the window.

 

[Class172]

Well exactly! Download stuff from the BBC iPlayer and you're entertained for hours! I love travelling by train and yet I seldom look out of the window.

I'm the opposite - even when I have hours worth of entertainment with me, I will usually end up looking out of the window watching the scenery go by; in busier areas, the railway beside the train.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm the opposite - even when I have hours worth of entertainment with me, I will usually end up looking out of the window watching the scenery go by; in busier areas, the railway beside the train.

Same here. It's a good way to relax and unwind.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Had a quick look on google for a pic of an 800, only artists impressions and mockups atm. Is there a date for when the first class 800 is completed and we get a proper look at what they're like?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Had a quick look on google for a pic of an 800, only artists impressions and mockups atm. Is there a date for when the first class 800 is completed and we get a proper look at what they're like?

I think the first unit is about to be tested in Japan.

 

[47802]

The Mock Up I exactly that demonstrating a number of features in reality I believe the windowless situation will not be as bad in the real train.

Of course Many people wont like the IEP compared to MK3, I don't particularly like Voyagers and many other new trains, last train journey I had was 3 hours on an LM 350 not something I intend to repeat even if was a cheap ticket.

However the HST's look tired and old and need replacing, so if you don't like IEP you will just have to lump it or choose alternate transport. From a comfort viewpoint many modern trains are crap, but that's the way it is deal with it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Had a quick look on google for a pic of an 800, only artists impressions and mockups atm. Is there a date for when the first class 800 is completed and we get a proper look at what they're like?

The test trains due next year probably won't be kitted out fully for passenger use.
They are usually full of instruments for the dynamic testing, with ballast representing a passenger load.
In any case the operators (ie FGW, EC) probably haven't finished their tweaking of the interior design.

 

[jimm]

Had a quick look on google for a pic of an 800, only artists impressions and mockups atm. Is there a date for when the first class 800 is completed and we get a proper look at what they're like?

There's a picture of a driving car on the production line at Hitachi's factory in the current issue of Rail.

Go to this link and you will see it on one of the page spreads
http://www.railmagazine.com/page_viewer.asp?page=The Latest Issue&pid=22

 

[asylumxl]

There's a picture of a driving car on the production line at Hitachi's factory in the current issue of Rail.

Go to this link and you will see it on one of the page spreads
http://www.railmagazine.com/page_viewer.asp?page=The Latest Issue&pid=22

The real thing looks slightly better than the renderings/mock up in my opinion.

 

[The Ham]

With regards to depth of seat with regards to comfert, having travelled on one of Easy Jet's new thinner seats for 4 hours I can say I would much have the extra few inches of leg room so I can move my legs about than have the extra illusion of padding from a thicker seat.

 

[Thunderer]

I have completed a near 7 hour journey on a 5 coach voyager from Edinburgh to Bristol via ECML (221116 when Virgin XC) and it was a packed, unpleasant experience that I do not wish to repeat. I have also completed the same journey a few years earlier by VXC HST (43062+43159) and it was a far more comfortable journey and less crowded. I agree the HST will take some beating on long journeys for comfort. I have no idea why the DFT have spent so much money on these IEP's when the tried and tested design is right in front of us and has been for over 35 years....the HST. Just build some more new bi-mode and electric HST's and make some modernisation to the designs of the new HST (toilet retention tanks, electric doors etc) Terry Millers design for the HST was world beating and the HST has served us all very well since 1976 - The IEP? Well I'll only give my real verdict on it when I travel from South Wales to London in 2018....but somehow I don't think it will be as good an experience as the HST.

 

[The Ham]

I have completed a near 7 hour journey on a 5 coach voyager from Edinburgh to Bristol via ECML (221116 when Virgin XC) and it was a packed, unpleasant experience that I do not wish to repeat. I have also completed the same journey a few years earlier by VXC HST (43062+43159) and it was a far more comfortable journey and less crowded. I agree the HST will take some beating on long journeys for comfort. I have no idea why the DFT have spent so much money on these IEP's when the tried and tested design is right in front of us and has been for over 35 years....the HST. Just build some more new bi-mode and electric HST's and make some modernisation to the designs of the new HST (toilet retention tanks, electric doors etc) Terry Millers design for the HST was world beating and the HST has served us all very well since 1976 - The IEP? Well I'll only give my real verdict on it when I travel from South Wales to London in 2018....but somehow I don't think it will be as good an experience as the HST.

There are many differences between the Voyagers and what is proposed for IEP. There are also some key differences between IEP and HST's including that the IEP's will have about 18% more seats than a HST, which will mean that they will be even less crowded than a HST.

I am of the view that IEP could be as good now as the HST was when it was launched, I'm sure that if there had been the internet back then with rail forums that there would have been people criticizing the HST's in much the same way as people are the IEP now. If when it comes into service there are problems with it then is then the time to criticize it not on what maybe the problems with it.

 

[Thunderer]

Good points there.....but my basic point is we already have a tried and tested successful design with the HST, so why not use that design and bring it into the 21st century? It would be far cheaper than the IEP project and far less of a risk.....it would make more financial sense. We could have bi-mode and electric HST's with more coaches for more passengers....I'm sure IEP will be a success....but at what price? Don't forget, if they do prove to be problematic, then the GWML and the ECML are stuck with them for the next 30 years......

 

[rebmcr]

Good points there.....but my basic point is we already have a tried and tested successful design with the HST, so why not use that design and bring it into the 21st century? It would be far cheaper than the IEP project and far less of a risk.....it would make more financial sense. We could have bi-mode and electric HST's with more coaches for more passengers....I'm sure IEP will be a success....but at what price? Don't forget, if they do prove to be problematic, then the GWML and the ECML are stuck with them for the next 30 years......

Compare the images of the Southall and Grayrigg crashes, to see why modern stock is both desirable, and mandatory for new builds.

 

[ac6000cw]

Compare the images of the Southall and Grayrigg crashes, to see why modern stock is both desirable, and mandatory for new builds.

How can you compare the results of derailment with those of a collision with another train (in terms of damage) ?

Not saying that the Pendolino isn't stronger etc., but you are comparing chalk-and-cheese in terms of the energy dissipation situations.

 

[rebmcr]

How can you compare the results of derailment with those of a collision with another train (in terms of damage) ?

Not saying that the Pendolino isn't stronger etc., but you are comparing chalk-and-cheese in terms of the energy dissipation situations.

Both trains smashed through OHLE gantries, and the Pendolino went down a 10m embankment. I think they're more similar than you're implying. The HST after all was only a glancing side blow from a freight wagon that immediately got pushed out of the way.