Merseyside: New stations planned

[driver_m]

Would the extension of the Merseyrail 3rd rail system through the approaches to and entering into Preston railway station have any difficulties that one not blessed with a depth of knowledge concerning that matter such as I would not recognise ?

Physically I don't see why not. But in terms of cost and efficiency, no chance.

 

[FQ]

More stations...
Journey time is long enough already but adding more stations to the route is crazy idea.
If it happens I think MR will need to get a fast train an hour to Liverpool and places calling at these places.

Chester-Chester: Calling at Chester, Hooton, Bebington, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Liverpool James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Bebington, Hooton and Chester.

Ellesmere Port-Ellesmere Port: Calling at Ellesmere Port, Hooton, Rock Ferry, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Liverpool James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Rock Ferry, Hooton and Ellesmere Port.

West Kirby-West Kirby: Calling at West Kirby, Moreton, Bidston, Birkenhead North, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Liverpool James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Birkenhead North, Bidston, Moreton and West Kirby.

New Brighton-New Brighton: Calling at New Brighton, Birkenhead North, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Liverpool James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Liverpool James Street, Birkenhead Hamilton Square, Birkenhead North and New Brighton.

Liverpool Central-Ormskirk: Calling at Liverpool Central, Moorfields, Sandhills, Kirkdale, Maghull, and Ormskirk. (Same on the way back).

Liverpool Central-Kirkby: (Not really needed but just in case) Calling at Liverpool Central, Moorfields and Kirkby. (Same on way back).

Hunts Cross-Southport: Calling at Hunts Cross, Liverpool South Parkway, Liverpool Central, Moorfields, Sandhills, Bootle (I don't know the area so I don't know the most busy station of the 2), Formby, Ainsdale and Southport. (Same on way back).

I based this on the population of each place and I also had one at most junctions.

 

[northwichcat]

This is MerseyTravel the transport authority, not necessarily MerseyRail the train operator.

Merseyrail means two different things:
1. The rail division of Merseytravel.
2. The rail franchise/concession operated by Merseyrail Electrics 2002 Limited.

Until fairly recently some Pacers said Merseyrail on them, although people refer to them as Merseytravel Pacers to avoid confusion.

 

[185]

I wouldn't listen too much to Merseytravel, a once great, industry leading PTE.

Since the arrival of Neil Scales, their old MD from South Yorks PTE in 2002, very little has happened, and several ambitious projects fell apart due to mismanagement and poor planning.

Scales has been replaced with David Brown, yet another person hired from SYPTE who seems to talk a lot, be big on ideas but rather poor on actually going through with them.

Little has happened at Merseytravel in ten years, and the way it is currently run, little will happen.

 

[snowball]

Would the extension of the Merseyrail 3rd rail system through the approaches to and entering into Preston railway station have any difficulties that one not blessed with a depth of knowledge concerning that matter such as I would not recognise ?

I think wiring from Preston to Ormskirk would be much more likely.

 

[frodshamfella]

Speke Airport is badly sited for a rail extension.
The shortest route would need about 2km of tunnelling from the Allerton direction (ie from Lime St HL).
That would put it at the end of an 8-mile shuttle route, about as uneconomic a service proposition as you could imagine.
The only prospect of a through connection would be on to the Crewe line west of Ditton over open land (outside the city boundary).
I suppose a tunnelled Merseyrail loop from LPY (Garston) might work.
Either way it seems like an expensive idea.
Can the airport support such a scheme?
It gets 4.1m passengers a year (and declining). Manchester gets 20.7m passengers a year (and rising).

Liverpool Airport is starting to see passenger increases once again, probably in line with increasing confidence in the economy. Easyjet planning more based aircraft next year which will add to passenger numbers announced after their 15 years operating from Liverpool Airport, one of their first UK bases.

In my opinion a rail connection to Liverpool Airport would be very useful, if it was possible.

 

[northwichcat]

Liverpool Airport is starting to see passenger increases once again, probably in line with increasing confidence in the economy. Easyjet planning more based aircraft next year which will add to passenger numbers announced after their 15 years operating from Liverpool Airport, one of their first UK bases.

In my opinion a rail connection to Liverpool Airport would be very useful, if it was possible.

Add to that Manchester Airport is approaching maximum capacity with no options for expansion in the forseeable future by the time there's HS2, Airport City etc.

 

[frodshamfella]

Funny while driving alone M53 today, I wondered if there have ever been any thoughts of extending the line from Ellesmere Port to Cheshire Oaks, this must be by far the biggest shopping facility on the Wirral, I dislike, but many flock there (by car).

 

[danbarnstall]

The bus service to the city centre is by modern standards poor, in rush hour traffic you can expect a journey time of upto an hour. However a rail link from the airport is probably always going to be a pipe dream due to logistics and cost.

 

[frodshamfella]

Add to that Manchester Airport is approaching maximum capacity with no options for expansion in the forseeable future by the time there's HS2, Airport City etc.

From where I live, train to Liverpool Airport, is by far faster than rail to Manchester Airport.

Tried it recently and did work well, Acton Bridge-Liverpool South Parkway (15 mins), bus transfer from there to outside terminal building about 10 mins, and if you book a ticket to "John Lennon Airport" on internet , the bus is included in your ticket so no looking for change. I would use South Parkway if I wanted to get into City Centre from airport also.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Add to that Manchester Airport is approaching maximum capacity with no options for expansion in the forseeable future by the time there's HS2, Airport City etc.

Will not the new Manchester Metrolink extension to Manchester Airport take away some of the local traffic that goes to Manchester from there ?

 

[northwichcat]

Will not the new Manchester Metrolink extension to Manchester Airport take away some of the local traffic that goes to Manchester from there ?

I mean the Airport not the Airport station! I doubt Metrolink will make much difference to the loadings on rail services as rail will be much faster than Metrolink but it might well affect bus loadings between Wythenshawe and the Airport.

 

[WatcherZero]

Appreantly the airport is privately consulting airlines on a £1bn plan to knock down terminal 1/3 and build a modern new terminal.

 

[Merseysider]

Appreantly the airport is privately consulting airlines on a £1bn plan to knock down terminal 1/3 and build a modern new terminal.

Surely there are better things they could do with that £1bn? I'm not overly familiar with that airport's infrastructure but it seems a lot of money to spend just on a demolition and rebuild.

 

[WatcherZero]

The two terminals are currently on top of each other, its very claustrophobic with low ceilings and cant compete with modern airy glass terminals. They would also be able to increase the number of gates.

 

[Merseysider]

Funny while driving alone M53 today, I wondered if there have ever been any thoughts of extending the line from Ellesmere Port to Cheshire Oaks, this must be by far the biggest shopping facility on the Wirral, I dislike, but many flock there (by car).

Cheshire Oaks is advertised as five minutes away from ELP so I think a rail link direct to the outlet would improve convenience for those who already go there, rather than encourage more to go there. Liverpool One is very well served by train and even if there were a direct train service to Cheshire Oaks, most would surely continue shopping in the city centre.

 

[frodshamfella]

Cheshire Oaks is advertised as five minutes away from ELP so I think a rail link direct to the outlet would improve convenience for those who already go there, rather than encourage more to go there. Liverpool One is very well served by train and even if there were a direct train service to Cheshire Oaks, most would surely continue shopping in the city centre.

I like Liverpool one, but really not keen on Cheshire Oaks, folk drive around it like its a race track ! If a rail terminus went there, would hopefully reduce mad drivers, or probably not, as that type love their cars !!

 

[Merseysider]

I like Liverpool one, but really not keen on Cheshire Oaks, folk drive around it like its a race track ! If a rail terminus went there, would hopefully reduce mad drivers, or probably not, as that type love their cars !!

Drivers in the Cheshire Oaks outlet take no heed of the zebra crossings!

One should also consider the state of New Brighton before looking at building a rail link to Cheshire Oaks. New Brighton received a major revival, with a supermarket, cinema and casino being part of the overhaul. Despite this, passenger numbers to NBN have showed no significant change since then, even showing a decrease last year. Thus there is no guarantee that improving rail access to Cheshire Oaks would result in greater patronisation or passenger footfall. I am of the opinion that such a potential investment would be better made increasing the frequency of evening services from and to Chester.

 

[Starmill]

One should also consider the state of New Brighton before looking at building a rail link to Cheshire Oaks. New Brighton received a major revival, with a supermarket, cinema and casino being part of the overhaul. Despite this, passenger numbers to NBN have showed no significant change since then, even showing a decrease last year. Thus there is no guarantee that improving rail access to Cheshire Oaks would result in greater patronisation or passenger footfall. I am of the opinion that such a potential investment would be better made increasing the frequency of evening services from and to Chester.

The methodology for this year's statistics explains that this is probably related to the statistical methods as there are a number of stations in Merseyside showinng 'large unexplained decreases' and that the infill needs improving.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Before we go down the route of Manchester Airport expansion, we should remember that proposals are being drawn up to expand airport capacity in the south of England. Wherever this airport is built, it will be a hub airport designed to copy similar hubs on mainland Europe. These airports will likely be the sole origin and destination of long haul flights in the future in the same way that with the growth of large containerships, the number of port calls is reduced. With the majority of the population residing in the south east of England the numbers and passenger numbers increasing all the time just don't stack up to build a hub airport in the North.

There is also the question of night time flying restrictions which limit operations which any hub would have to overcome and this could be increasingly difficult in an urban environment, especially in an area where the local road network including motorways are already heavily congested.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Maybe this is one of the Stations Merseytravel want to re-open, its called Ford

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/ford/index.shtml

 

[Olaf]

The majority of the 30 stations probably relate to the old proposals for the restoration of rail services on the former freight lines looping through the suburbs of Liverpool - sorry I can not remember their names - and a branch off the Northern Line in the Bootle area.

None of these lines had a sound BCR, and the proposals were more like the felt-tip pen scribblings of a school-boy on an old rail map of Liverpool.

 

[Wavertreelad]

The majority of the 30 stations probably relate to the old proposals for the restoration of rail services on the former freight lines looping through the suburbs of Liverpool - sorry I can not remember their names - and a branch off the Northern Line in the Bootle area.

None of these lines had a sound BCR, and the proposals were more like the felt-tip pen scribblings of a school-boy on an old rail map of Liverpool.

Think my post No 17 in this thread part covers this.

Apart from the well known expansion plans for the Merseyrail network, the announcement of up to 30 new stations by Merseytravel could see stations at less obvious locations. This is because the policy is designed to regenerate the area and increase opportunity for travel and employment thus suggesting the priority will be in areas of low car ownership as well. One obvious line that could benefit would be the Bootle Branch, especially if it was electrified. This could lead to stations at Edge Lane to service the new retail estate on which work is about to start, Stanley, Anfield (near Townsend Lane) and Walton which could also service the football stadia on match days. If the North Mersey line was also brought back into use the service could either extend to either Southport or Ormskirk and beyond as well as open up an additional route for freight trains to reach to the Port of Liverpool thus making better use of resources.

 

[northwichcat]

Cheshire Oaks is advertised as five minutes away from ELP so I think a rail link direct to the outlet would improve convenience for those who already go there, rather than encourage more to go there. Liverpool One is very well served by train and even if there were a direct train service to Cheshire Oaks, most would surely continue shopping in the city centre.

TPE have advertised Tatton Park as a short taxi ride from Manchester Airport station. It seems 'a short taxi ride' is seen as acceptable by promoters when the nearest train station isn't that close and there's no bus link.

On the other hand MCRUA published a booklet of walks from rail stations including a 5 mile circular walk from Knutsford station taking in Tatton Hall: https://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/PDF/Knutsford_Rail_Walks.pdf (If it's just the park you want to see then it's only a 10 minute walk from Knutsford station.)

 

[Holly]

Cheshire Oaks is advertised as five minutes away from ELP so I think a rail link direct to the outlet would improve convenience for those who already go there, rather than encourage more to go there. Liverpool One is very well served by train and even if there were a direct train service to Cheshire Oaks, most would surely continue shopping in the city centre.

Light rail would be the thing for Cheshire Oaks and its environs. Just a light rail shuttle to/from Cheshire Oaks and Merseyrail Ellesmere Port. Light rail would not require major civil engineering works and be sufficient.
The developers should have been held to ransom to provide this long ago.

 

[Merseysider]

Light rail would be the thing for Cheshire Oaks and its environs. Just a light rail shuttle to/from Cheshire Oaks and Merseyrail Ellesmere Port. Light rail would not require major civil engineering works and be sufficient.
The developers should have been held to ransom to provide this long ago.

If it ran parallel to the M53 and adjacent canal, I can't imagine it being too difficult to build a light rail link.

I don't believe Liscard has yet been mentioned in this thread; I see that being a great option for rail expansion. Unless I'm much mistaken it once was connected by rail?

 

[Starmill]

TPE have advertised Tatton Park as a short taxi ride from Manchester Airport station. It seems 'a short taxi ride' is seen as acceptable by promoters when the nearest train station isn't that close and there's no bus link.

Blatant garbage... why would anyone use Manchester Airport station to get to Tatton Park!?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Blatant garbage... why would anyone use Manchester Airport station to get to Tatton Park!?

That's a problem with the fragmented nature of the railways... First/Keolis would clearly rather their unsuspecting passengers get stung with a c.£20 taxi fare than use Northern!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I like Liverpool one, but really not keen on Cheshire Oaks, folk drive around it like its a race track ! If a rail terminus went there, would hopefully reduce mad drivers, or probably not, as that type love their cars !!

The old local council said they considered a link to Cheshire Oaks but were told the curve off the main line would be too tight. A strange argument. Units wait idle for around 20 mins at Ellesmere Port so there would be time to get to Cheshire Oaks & back. But the council said shoppers would not use the train unless there was one waiting in the platform at all times. You could not make this up.

Redrow have recently been given permission to build a huge new 1570 house estate near the site of the old Ledsham station. This very controversial decision was made prematurely before the local plan had been finalized. Thus there is no provision for the reopening of Ledsham station. Traffic chaos will ensue as the new residents use narrow local roads as rat runs.

 

[Olaf]

Think my post No 17 in this thread part covers this.
Quote:
Apart from the well known expansion plans for the Merseyrail network, the announcement of up to 30 new stations by Merseytravel could see stations at less obvious locations. This is because the policy is designed to regenerate the area and increase opportunity for travel and employment thus suggesting the priority will be in areas of low car ownership as well. One obvious line that could benefit would be the Bootle Branch, especially if it was electrified. This could lead to stations at Edge Lane to service the new retail estate on which work is about to start, Stanley, Anfield (near Townsend Lane) and Walton which could also service the football stadia on match days. If the North Mersey line was also brought back into use the service could either extend to either Southport or Ormskirk and beyond as well as open up an additional route for freight trains to reach to the Port of Liverpool thus making better use of resources.

Yes, those are the proposals that were shot-down last time around.