Sarcastic Tweet Gets Similar Response Shock

[Llanigraham]

On the other side of the coin, I travelled on an ATW service starting at Chester and ending at Crewe and inside the train all the posters were in Welsh only.

How does that one work??

All the ones I see are in both languages.

ADD:

I wonder if there is the same bad feelings elsewhere in Europe?
In Belgium I hear French and Flemish, in Northen Spain Spanish and Basque, in Brittany Breton and French, in Switzerland everything from French, German, Italian and native Swiss, and even in Crete both Cretan and Greek.
Certainly there appears to be much greater tolerance of the different NATIONAL languages than has been shown by some here.

 

[JohnB57]

It is a beautiful lamguage.

You just can't resist those sheep gags can you?

 

[mancnq]

I've travelled by train on the continent quite a bit. On the high speed ICE International service between Amsterdam and Frankfurt for example, the announcements are made in three languages: Dutch, German and English. I understand English and German and can usually understand enough of the Dutch for it to be rather repetitive by the time they get to English, but this is a long distance route where the stations are few and far between.

I think ultimately it comes down to whether or not people are used to seeing and hearing any language other than English. Many people seem to think that that having to acknowledge the existence of any other language is a huge affront to them, which is of course an extremely immature attitude to have.

To get back to the Welsh issue, most of the people hearing the announcements will require them to be in English, so the announcement should as standard be in English first, followed by Welsh.

 

[daikilo]

You just can't resist those sheep gags can you?

No, welsh is a beautiful language. Where did you come from?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Personally I quite like the Welsh announcements as I can understand enough to know what the announcement is (including platform changes etc) so it can be useful to beat the mad rush to the other platform!

Also in regards to the whole language debate, especially with Welsh there is a general increase in its usage. Not because of bilingual announcements, but because of the improved education and teaching of the language which means that a large number of the younger generation and speak or at least understand the language. I don't see why this can be seen as a bad thing at all.

Down here in Cornwall there is a group of people, some elected but mostly unelected, trying to get everything translated into Cornish, a language that died a natural death two centuries ago. Not all of them are Nationalists, I regret to say the Labour Party (or elements of it) have got in on the act too. They propose to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of public money on this fatuous exercise and, if successful, will no doubt attempt to browbeat FGW or whoever into following suit. It is particularly ridiculous as there are factions within this tiny Cornish Language Movement which cannot agree on spelling, pronunciation or probably the time of day but they claim the moral high ground.

Of course Welsh has never been a dead language iike Cornish, so the comparison is a little unfair.

 

[Tracky]

On the other side of the coin, I travelled on an ATW service starting at Chester and ending at Crewe and inside the train all the posters were in Welsh only.

There is no set plan for the posters displayed in 150s. The majority carry at least one diagram of the valley lines network and a couple of adverts. All the units have a poster detailing the new card only ticket machines (both English and Welsh in the same poster) and most have a SMUG poster either in English OR Welsh.

 

[Greenback]

Not because of bilingual announcements, but because of the improved education and teaching of the language which means that a large number of the younger generation and speak or at least understand the language. I don't see why this can be seen as a bad thing at all.

It's a good thing, but the increased visibility and usage of the language, from bilingual road signs and announcements to the establishment of S4C, have all had a positive effect. When people can see that a language is alive there is naturally more of an interest in learning about it and using it.

This may not manifest itself in the official statistics. I'm sure many are like me, and actually know more Welsh than we tend to think, but still don't consider ourselves Welsh speakers. Mrs G speaks more of it than me, as her father was half fluent in it, but again she would think of describing herself as a Welsh speaker.

Improved educations has also been a factor. When I was in school it was not compulsory to learn Welsh, and it was seen as a bit pointless to even attempt to do so. Thankfully, times have changed, and it is now seen as more of an advantage to be able to speak the language.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's purely political, hence why this particularly obnoxious politician is so angry about nothing.

This "obnoxious" politician is Carwyn Jones, First Minister of Wales.
He has a fairly large say in the decisions about rail transport in Wales and in particular the vexed question of Valley Lines electrification.
He will also be deeply involved in the specification and reletting of the Wales & Borders franchise over the next few years.
Not somebody the incumbent TOC should be getting the wrong side of.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

All the ones I see are in both languages.

dw I angen geiriadur....

 

[Llanigraham]

dw I angen geiriadur....

Ac nad ydych yn defnyddio Google?
And you didn't use Google?

 

[Emyr]

The use of automated translation in this thread is not increasing my enjoyment of it,

 

[joke2711]

There is no set plan for the posters displayed in 150s. The majority carry at least one diagram of the valley lines network and a couple of adverts. All the units have a poster detailing the new card only ticket machines (both English and Welsh in the same poster) and most have a SMUG poster either in English OR Welsh.

I assure you my knowledge of English is pretty good and there was no English translation on the poster. It was however all about travelling in South Wales without a valid ticket and the penalty that would be applied. Wish I had taken a picture but alas I didn't!

 

[Greenback]

I'm sure I have noticed Welsh language posters on trains, though I'm equally sure that there have also been the English equivalent somewhere else in the carriage.

 

[Flamingo]

This "obnoxious" politician is Carwyn Jones, First Minister of Wales.
He has a fairly large say in the decisions about rail transport in Wales and in particular the vexed question of Valley Lines electrification.
He will also be deeply involved in the specification and reletting of the Wales & Borders franchise over the next few years.
Not somebody the incumbent TOC should be getting the wrong side of.

One point nobody has raised is that he was using the train for a short-distance journey coming from an official function. Not with managers and ho-ha around him, but just another punter. That has to be positive, and a point in his favour.

He does need a sense of humour, though

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

One point nobody has raised is that he was using the train for a short-distance journey coming from an official function. Not with managers and ho-ha around him, but just another punter. That has to be positive, and a point in his favour.
He does need a sense of humour, though

He's not of my political persuasion, but like Rhodri Morgan before him, he does a good job as Chief Exec of Wales.
He was also using his personal AM account and not throwing his weight around.
But I would have thought his tweet was rather jokey in tone, and I'm not surprised he got one back in similar vein!
Storm in a paned!

 

[starrymarkb]

All the ones I see are in both languages.

ADD:

I wonder if there is the same bad feelings elsewhere in Europe?
In Belgium I hear French and Flemish, in Northen Spain Spanish and Basque, in Brittany Breton and French, in Switzerland everything from French, German, Italian and native Swiss, and even in Crete both Cretan and Greek.
Certainly there appears to be much greater tolerance of the different NATIONAL languages than has been shown by some here.

Major German stations have announcements in both German and English. Though if arriving on an IC and ICE with a huge list of connections it's unlikely the English will have finished playing before the train departs.*

If you haven't heard it before it's something like this

[German]This is Berlin Hbf - Your next connections: - ICE3425 to Dresden departs 12:10 from platform 2 directly opposite. ICE2332 to Hambug departs 12:15 from Platform 12 on the upper level - IC4356 to Rostock departs 12:30 from platform 7 - RE3344 to... etc etc[/German] - [Whole thing repeats in English usually by this point the doors are closing]

The announcements on Swiss Trains are done in 3 Languages

[German]The SBB Traincrew welcomes you aboard the Intercity to Thun, Speiz, Visp and Brig and wishes you a pleasant journey. Next stop Bern. For Refreshing Drinks and apperising snacks come see our friendly staff in the SBB resturant car in the centre of the train[/German] [French]The CFF Traincrew welcomes you aboard the Intercity to Thun, Speiz, Viage and Brig and wishes you a pleasant journey. Next stop Berne. For Refreshing Drinks and apperising snacks come see our friendly staff in the CFF resturant car in the centre of the train[/French]. [English] The SBB Traincrew welcomes you aboard the Intercity to Thun, Speiz, Visp and Brig and wishes you a pleasant journey. Next stop Bern. For Refreshing Drinks and apperising snacks come see our friendly staff in the SBB resturant car in the centre of the train. [/English] - it's impressive to hear it done manually as well usually quicker then most single language UK announcements.

Personally I think the problem is the over verbosity of UK announcements rather then the need to repeat in Welsh.

 

[grah2702]

Another politician who thinks he's important but isn't.

 

[Llanigraham]

Another politician who thinks he's important but isn't.

Have you bothered to read the entries at 134 and 135 on the previous page?

If he thought he was like that he wouldn't be using the train for a short journey, without an entourage, and using his own account.

Do you actually know who and what he is?

 

[ainsworth74]

Personally I think the problem is the over verbosity of UK announcements rather then the need to repeat in Welsh.

Those Swiss annoucements were wonderful. All the information you need and in just a couple of sentences. No jargon about reporting strange objects or suspicious behaviour to the traincrew or telling me my bag may be removed and destroyed. Lovely.

I do think it's a shame that we don't have more multi-lingual annoucements at least on inter-city services in/out of London. Though I guess the question which one do you pick? As English is still the universal language if you're going to have two languages for annoucements it makes sense to use local and English. But what would we go for?

 

[AM9]

Those Swiss annoucements were wonderful. All the information you need and in just a couple of sentences. No jargon about reporting strange objects or suspicious behaviour to the traincrew or telling me my bag may be removed and destroyed. Lovely.

I do think it's a shame that we don't have more multi-lingual annoucements at least on inter-city services in/out of London. Though I guess the question which one do you pick? As English is still the universal language if you're going to have two languages for annoucements it makes sense to use local and English. But what would we go for?

Home Counties English and whatever the locals speak.

 

[Chapeltom]

Unfortunately I don't think you could have multiple languages on English trains. Whether we like it or not, English is 'the common language' abroad. I've been to 8/9 European countries and have met many other nationalities. Just as an example, a Russian and a German were conversing in English, a French person and a Dutch person, again conversing in English. I feel embarrassed when I go abroad and I cannot communicate with anyone except in my mother tongue, English of course.

Welsh announcements should come in Wales, first. Station names really aren't that difficult to pick out particularly if you know the route.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Those Swiss annoucements were wonderful. All the information you need and in just a couple of sentences. No jargon about reporting strange objects or suspicious behaviour to the traincrew or telling me my bag may be removed and destroyed. Lovely.

Yes,agree entirely. travelling in Spain last year we were (jokingly) expecting carnage when passengers alighted at stations because they weren't warned to mind the gap. Amazingly the Spanish all managed this tricky operation without injury. I suppose it's all down to the insurance companies?

Would also add re the speaking of English abroad is that the Brits (I include Welsh and Scots) and Americans are notoriously bad at learning other languages through the Education system. Perhaps this also feeds some intolerance of the Welsh language by the English?

 

[Strat-tastic]

It is a beautiful lamguage.

You've spelt that wrong. It should be llanguage!

Joking aside, it is a beautiful language, don't understand a word of it mind

Roadsigns in Welsh bring back happy memories of childhood holidays, and the couple of occasions in recent years I caught the train at Cardiff I loved hearing it in Welsh. It didn't bother me that it was first, because it's Wales and that seems right and proper.

So, any language that can form a word from 39 consonants and one vowel is pretty cool in my opinion

 

[Tibbs]

Yes,agree entirely. travelling in Spain last year we were (jokingly) expecting carnage when passengers alighted at stations because they weren't warned to mind the gap. Amazingly the Spanish all managed this tricky operation without injury. I suppose it's all down to the insurance companies?

Would also add re the speaking of English abroad is that the Brits (I include Welsh and Scots) and Americans are notoriously bad at learning other languages through the Education system. Perhaps this also feeds some intolerance of the Welsh language by the English?

It's not so much that - it's that we don't watch television programming in other languages. It's also a necessity thing - English is the lingua franca of the world.

Most of the people I talk to abroad, particularly those in non-Western countries, pick up English from the TV, rather than from formal education.

You'd find that people in the UK would pick up a second language where necessary. You won't find many Spanish speakers in the Costa del Sol for example, but you will find them in Paris. You'll find that Americans who live in the South Western USA tend to speak quite good Spanish, particularly people in medical or civil service postitions.

 

[Emyr]

So, any language that can form a word from 39 consonants and one vowel is pretty cool in my opinion

22 consonants and 6 vowels.

https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yr_wyddor_Gymraeg

 

[quarella]

When urgent bi-lingual announcements are made; such as change of platform, are they made in Welsh first, then English? Welsh speakers would have an advantage in making the move.

It is actually on grounds of safety. Can't have too many people rushing between platforms at one time.

 

[Greenback]

Personally I think the problem is the over verbosity of UK announcements rather then the need to repeat in Welsh.

I agree. I find the announcements in Europe in several different languages at both stations and on trains to be less intrusive than one announcement in English here. Though I can't remember ever being invited to partake of appetising snacks on any Swiss train! Maybe I didn't use the right services!

It is actually on grounds of safety. Can't have too many people rushing between platforms at one time.

I like that!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It's not so much that - it's that we don't watch television programming in other languages. It's also a necessity thing - English is the lingua franca of the world.

Most of the people I talk to abroad, particularly those in non-Western countries, pick up English from the TV, rather than from formal education.

You'd find that people in the UK would pick up a second language where necessary. You won't find many Spanish speakers in the Costa del Sol for example, but you will find them in Paris. You'll find that Americans who live in the South Western USA tend to speak quite good Spanish, particularly people in medical or civil service postitions.

Yes, of course people in the UK would pick up a second language where necessary (if they went to live in a different country, for example)...I was pointing out that the teaching of a second - or third - language in our schools is not given the same priority as it is in other countries. I'm sure that I've seen statistical evidence of this.

 

[6Gman]

Yes, of course people in the UK would pick up a second language where necessary (if they went to live in a different country, for example)...I was pointing out that the teaching of a second - or third - language in our schools is not given the same priority as it is in other countries. I'm sure that I've seen statistical evidence of this.

Not much evidence of that when English people move to Wales ......

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Not much evidence of that when English people move to Wales ......

Ha! Trying to steer clear of controversy on this one...that's why I said 'people in the UK' rather than the 'English'.