ATW to Rebrand Gerald Premier Service

[Greenback]

It sounds as though very few would be upset at the loss of first class except for staff and the occasional passenger who enjoys on train dining!

 

[PHILIPE]

From posts on this Forum, some members seem to want to travel specially on Gerald to sample the food.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, these probably make up the bulk of the occasional first class passengers!

 

[berneyarms]

From posts on this Forum, some members seem to want to travel specially on Gerald to sample the food.

Well the food is top notch - the menu is very good and the chef does produce food that is worthy of any top quality restaurant.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well the food is top notch - the menu is very good and the chef does produce food that is worthy of any top quality restaurant.

No question about the Chefs ability being compared to food offered at quality hotels, however no top quality hotel can survive without a full house of customers every day.

 

[6Gman]

No question about the Chefs ability being compared to food offered at quality hotels, however no top quality hotel can survive without a full house of customers every day.

And quality hotels don't normally get revenue subsidy from a government which is struggling to fund health, education, social services etc etc

 

[berneyarms]

No question about the Chefs ability being compared to food offered at quality hotels, however no top quality hotel can survive without a full house of customers every day.

I'm not suggesting it can - merely confirming that it is worth travelling on for the food alone.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm not suggesting it can - merely confirming that it is worth travelling on for the food alone.

OK, like Wrexham & Shropshire,Gerald has a Premier service will be missed by those few who used the facilities,
But has every budget in Wales is being cut,except health & education,this little used service can not be protected any longer, a kind of "Use It Or Lose It" comes to mind.
The magical 1716 Path from Cardiff, the busiest service of the day to North Wales,failed to attract First Class customers after the 1620 and 1820 paths were tried, so in my opinion the writing was on the wall.

 

[Essexman]

I've used it twice but having little need to travel from South to North Wales both were deliberately going out of my way to travel on this train (once London - Crewe and once London - Llandudno). Both times I went first class and enjoyed good food, although not to standard of FGW Pullman. The half dozen or so in first class were a mix of business people from Cardiff and rail enthusiasts (3 gentlemen from Bristol who did an annual evening trip to Shrewsbury to enjoy the train & dining). Plus an American chap who got on at Crewe and was surprised but pleased to find that having a first class ticket he got dinner cooked just for him as we travelled towards North Wales.

Sadly I can see that full dining with a chef must be hard to justify but I hope they keep the loco hauled train with first class section & buffet.

 

[merlodlliw]

Sadly I can see that full dining with a chef must be hard to justify but I hope they keep the loco hauled train with first class section & buffet.

but with all respect,why keep first class with so few customers,I agree keep the buffet, but make the train all standard class, but I expect it to follow the other loco hauled service four times mark3s commencing December,there is a bigger market North Wales to Manchester,but this will have a trolley for the three hour run,but if the catering staff are to go,can you run a buffet with change over of staff and accounting for stock, others will know better than me.The layover at Cardiff must mean staff difficulties,all VTs appear to turn around,with Gerald its a wait of seven hours for the return run,a crazy idea for use of rolling stock and staff.

 

[Gareth Marston]

but with all respect,why keep first class with so few customers,I agree keep the buffet, but make the train all standard class, but I expect it to follow the other loco hauled service four times mark3s commencing December,there is a bigger market North Wales to Manchester,but this will have a trolley for the three hour run,but if the catering staff are to go,can you run a buffet with change over of staff and accounting for stock, others will know better than me.The layover at Cardiff must mean staff difficulties,all VTs appear to turn around,with Gerald its a wait of seven hours for the return run,a crazy idea for use of rolling stock and staff.

Basing it out of a Crewe and using it on the north wales coast to manchester route after May 15 is probably a more efficient use of it as you'll get all day out of it and service it Crewe with the other rake.

 

[ainsworth74]

Careful with using the quote function guys as I've had to fix some broken ones. It was caught early this time but I know that we've had occasions where a dozen or more posts have broken quotes which makes things a nightmare to understand and then fix. Check that your quote has worked as you intended after you actually make your post if not fix it and if you don't know how to fix it report (

) your post and one of the Staff Team will be happy to do it for you.

 

[AlterEgo]

From posts on this Forum, some members seem to want to travel specially on Gerald to sample the food.

I have done exactly this. I'm not surprised it's going, and I'm glad I did it when I had the chance!

 

[berneyarms]

but with all respect,why keep first class with so few customers,I agree keep the buffet, but make the train all standard class, but I expect it to follow the other loco hauled service four times mark3s commencing December,there is a bigger market North Wales to Manchester,but this will have a trolley for the three hour run,but if the catering staff are to go,can you run a buffet with change over of staff and accounting for stock, others will know better than me.The layover at Cardiff must mean staff difficulties,all VTs appear to turn around,with Gerald its a wait of seven hours for the return run,a crazy idea for use of rolling stock and staff.

The problem is that the train is maintained in Cardiff yet overnights in Holyhead and spends weekends there. For there to be any chance of it being used more intensively (ignoring the legal implications which mean it cannot operate any standard ATW services), it would need to be maintained at Crewe rather than Canton.

Also, the RMT statement makes no mention of 1st Class or catering being abolished. In fact it mentions the chef roles being withdrawn and replaced by a microwave.

As posted before, any evening I've used it (and I've taken it several times) there has been a reasonable loading in 1st Class to Shrewsbury. It's clearly not enough to justify the cost of the chef, but with so many negative comments about the train I think it important to perhaps post a slightly alternative view.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, the RMT statement makes no mention of 1st Class or catering being abolished. In fact it mentions the chef roles being withdrawn and replaced by a microwave.

It's worth noting that you can do some pretty decent foodservice-type food using a microwave - most pub food these days is served using a combination of a microwave and a chip fryer/steak griddle. The Caledonian Sleeper lounge car has a restaurant-car feel to it, and that is mainly provided by the serving of the food on proper plates etc. And DB restaurant cars mainly serve microwaved fayre - certainly the Bistros do.

Personally I suspect I would use such a thing more if it were (a) open to standard passengers, and (b) more reasonably priced rather than being a premium facility - i.e. more like what DB and SBB operate. Good-quality foodservice food served from a microwave (possibly with convection oven facility) is more likely to provide that.

Neil

 

[berneyarms]

It's worth noting that you can do some pretty decent foodservice-type food using a microwave - most pub food these days is served using a combination of a microwave and a chip fryer/steak griddle. The Caledonian Sleeper lounge car has a restaurant-car feel to it, and that is mainly provided by the serving of the food on proper plates etc. And DB restaurant cars mainly serve microwaved fayre - certainly the Bistros do.

Personally I suspect I would use such a thing more if it were (a) open to standard passengers, and (b) more reasonably priced rather than being a premium facility - i.e. more like what DB and SBB operate. Good-quality foodservice food served from a microwave (possibly with convection oven facility) is more likely to provide that.

Neil

Just to reiterate - anyone can purchase a meal from the buffet and bring it back to their seat in standard class.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Just to reiterate - anyone can purchase a meal from the buffet and bring it back to their seat in standard class.

...or even have it delivered to your seat in Standard!

 

[berneyarms]

...or even have it delivered to your seat in Standard!

Absolutely - colleagues have had their breakfasts served to them in standard class as well.

 

[merlodlliw]

Absolutely - colleagues have had their breakfasts served to them in standard class as well.

Whenever I used Gerald, its usually toast in silver foil that returns from the buffet into standard class.

 

[berneyarms]

Whenever I used Gerald, its usually toast in silver foil that returns from the buffet into standard class.

Can I ask did you ever try ordering any food from the menu?

I can absolutely stand by my earlier post.

 

[merlodlliw]

Can I ask did you ever try ordering any food from the menu?

I can absolutely stand by my earlier post.

Depends what you mean by the menu,last time I used Gerald there was a list of what was on offer on the buffet counter, I have no doubt at all that a breakfast is available for paying customers in standard.
I have always said all that is required is a buffet car, I have no idea of the configuration of stock in the future on Gerald, somehow I don't see ATW/WG paying the rental to the rosco for the two dining cars,making it a four car train of mark3 standards akin to the new fleet at DBs Crewe works seems on the cards,
Having the current Gerald stock serviced at Cardiff when it starts and finishes at Holyhead always seemed strange with that silly seven hour lay up,perhaps ATW and WG may be thinking the same way has me.The current 5 year rental deal of stock ends soon(6 x mark3s refurbed plus the two dining cars & the DVTs) new routes could be
Crewe/Cardiff, Cardiff/Holyhead,Holyhead/Manchester,Manchester/Llandudno etc, if this were to occur, Gerald could become a franchise service not restricted open access as now freeing up some DMUs,there are enough 175s on the North/South route already in service. I am just throwing this about,perhaps May 2015 will see this occur,

 

[NJTom]

Can I be selfish and point out the amount of times my local stopper to Holyhead is delayed behind the late running Wag. I love the good old loco hauled trains, but enough already.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Depends what you mean by the menu,last time I used Gerald there was a list of what was on offer on the buffet counter, I have no doubt at all that a breakfast is available for paying customers in standard.
I have always said all that is required is a buffet car, I have no idea of the configuration of stock in the future on Gerald, somehow I don't see ATW/WG paying the rental to the rosco for the two dining cars,making it a four car train of mark3 standards akin to the new fleet at DBs Crewe works seems on the cards,
Having the current Gerald stock serviced at Cardiff when it starts and finishes at Holyhead always seemed strange with that silly seven hour lay up,perhaps ATW and WG may be thinking the same way has me.The current 5 year rental deal of stock ends soon(6 x mark3s refurbed plus the two dining cars & the DVTs) new routes could be
Crewe/Cardiff, Cardiff/Holyhead,Holyhead/Manchester,Manchester/Llandudno etc, if this were to occur, Gerald could become a franchise service not restricted open access as now freeing up some DMUs,there are enough 175s on the North/South route already in service. I am just throwing this about,perhaps May 2015 will see this occur,

ATW will not fund themselves, Gerald is paid for by Welsh Government and the second rake has been forced on them as a consequence of The DB takeover some 4 years ago no doubt with Arriva forgetting about the clause until DFT remembered about it.

The best result for passengers would be it becomes a Crewe based unit to run North Wales Coast to Manchester as a standard only service freeing DMU's to strengthen the Marches diagrams. However unless someone else pays ATW will not do it off their own back despite the franchise being one of the most profitable in the UK with the gross profit being nearer to 10%. Than the impoverished 3% average claimed by ATOC.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"Axing the catering services" is not exactly the same as "axing the travelling chef"...hock:

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW will not fund themselves, Gerald is paid for by Welsh Government and the second rake has been forced on them as a consequence of The DB takeover some 4 years ago no doubt with Arriva forgetting about the clause until DFT remembered about it.

The best result for passengers would be it becomes a Crewe based unit to run North Wales Coast to Manchester as a standard only service freeing DMU's to strengthen the Marches diagrams. However unless someone else pays ATW will not do it off their own back despite the franchise being one of the most profitable in the UK with the gross profit being nearer to 10%. Than the impoverished 3% average claimed by ATOC.

ATW take the view that the Service is specified by the Government (DFT) so that is what they are required to comply with and nothing else unless somebody offers to pay..

 

[merlodlliw]

"Axing the catering services" is not exactly the same as "axing the travelling chef"...hock:

From what I understand, there are two Chiefs and four or more catering staff employed by ATW, whose sole contract is to service Gerald.
It would appear according to the RMT all jobs are at risk, I am aware ATW are in discussions with all catering staff assigned to Gerald.
The two Chefs on whatever duty overnight at Rhyl,the girls operate out of Holyhead,some say the girls spend seven hours at Newport in between shifts?I have also heard some return on franchise services,others may know better, but the seven hour lay up at Cardiff cant help staffing shifts & hours.
I can only assume, the worst denominator in this situation is a trolley, like all other ATW services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Gerald was ten minutes late into Wrexham this morning 28th October, due to the VT running 12 minutes late on departure from Wrexham.

No one in Geralds First/Diner this morning, very few in standard class, I presume this has something to do with school holidays and Cardiff Bay being on Holiday for the week as well.

 

[krus_aragon]

...or even have it delivered to your seat in Standard!

Given that when I've travelled on the Gerallt Gymro I've generally brought my bike along with me, I've given the lovely staff a long walk to bring my supper down to the rear of the train!

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW take the view that the Service is specified by the Government (DFT) so that is what they are required to comply with and nothing else unless somebody offers to pay..

I did point out as everything is specified by the franchise agreement and the senior management teams pay isn't does that mean they should not be paid? Didn't go down well'

 

[Class 170101]

When I went on this service (albeit Standard Class) the train which was then departed Cardiff at 16:17 went via Crewe and was actually busier between Crewe and Llandudno Jn (where I got off), than between Cardiff and Crewe. Not helped by non-stopping at Hereford I would suggest. However Crewe had the big traffic flow with people seemingly heading onward towards Holyhead.

 

[berneyarms]

I would also comment that usage of the train in its current guise is highest between Shrewsbury and Cardiff - that's why while the reports from Wrexham are worth noting, they're not necessarily representative of the whole service loadings.