First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[freetoview33]

The last few days have been a complete joke! A lot of buses simply haven't run and a lot of buses in tandem, also so much hassle with a change ticket. One driver refused to let me on as he said he couldn't give me a change ticket as change for another change ticket. Then another driver on the next bus just let me on without paying!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And 66729 I believe, it certainly is today. A welcome change from Darts.

By the way, I saw 53401 at Bristol Bus Station one morning in the week on an X9(?) arrival. According to Steve White's web-site it's now been transferred to MH.

Now the 619 has finished, 53401 is now spare. Thought it might head onto 35 but seems it's appeared on X9 and X10 recently.

 

[vicbury]

The last few days have been a complete joke! A lot of buses simply haven't run and a lot of buses in tandem, also so much hassle with a change ticket. One driver refused to let me on as he said he couldn't give me a change ticket as change for another change ticket. Then another driver on the next bus just let me on without paying!

Hopefully situations like this will be a thing of the past when/if First start accepting contactless debit / credit cards.

 

[freetoview33]

Still so many buses terminating short or running together its mad

 

[Private Baxter]

By the way, I saw 53401 at Bristol Bus Station one morning in the week on an X9(?) arrival. According to Steve White's web-site it's now been transferred to MH.

The road hasn't actually reopened yet has it. I know they have ammended the timetable of both the 37 and 319 in readiness for its reopening, but why cancel the 619 now?

Anyway good to see that First now have a surplus of vehicles for the first time in a while. Can't see 53401 staying at MH though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought it had reopened but then saw a 37 in Saltford so I knew I was wrong.

46264 working a late 35 into town dropped about 20 people at Cabot. Must've cleaned up ahead of a 42?

 

[swifty]

The road hasn't actually reopened yet has it. I know they have ammended the timetable of both the 37 and 319 in readiness for its reopening, but why cancel the 619 now?

Because South Gloucestershire no longer wish to fund it. They've sourced an alternative Taxi bus scheme operating to a similar timetable.

Although the services still run via Keynsham, as the timetable had been amended and they're on diversion again, they should *not* be stopping between Willsbridge and Bath.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Still so many buses terminating short or running together its mad

From what I've heard drivers have been told something along the lines of if they're running late they can drop out of service and run dead/set down only until they catch up to time. I guess as with everything some will, some won't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There seemed to be a few Express Yourself buses out on no wander today, a Streetlite on the 78, a Dart on the Bath Road to name a few. The UWE services also seemed to have picked up over the last few weeks and were the busiest I've seen them on a Saturday, even the X74 had a good load this evening.

 

[matt_splat]

the solo for MH was out on the 87 today a suitable route for it very quiet (was only passenger from cribs to cam) picked about 12 up in the dursley area.

caught a 88 back was a express your self dart the routing of this service around Berkley and sharpness is very odd lots of double running picked my self and one other up in dursley about 3 drivers aboard route learning picked 2 up in Berkley running into Bristol

caught a 319 at 07:00 this morning left bath at 07:15 and made It into cribbs about 3 mins late good going

 

[ValleyLines142]

Still so many buses terminating short or running together its mad

Indeed. Two 70s and a 71 arrived at UWE at once on Friday, and a Gemini on the 1 with Broadmead on the screen!

 

[Class 33]

I got a 2 from Cribbs Causeway-Broadmead a few days ago. It took bloody ages. An hour and 25 minutes!! It had Stockwood on the destination display when I got on, but when I departed I noticed it had changed to Broadmead(even though quite a number of people boarded at the Centre!).

The 79 departing Bristol at 0630 on weekdays now seems to be running to time, and not 10 minutes later. However I haven't seen any more double deckers on the 78 & 79 on weekdays since Tuesday.

 

[vicbury]

the solo for MH was out on the 87 today a suitable route for it very quiet (was only passenger from cribs to cam) picked about 12 up in the dursley area.

caught a 88 back was a express your self dart the routing of this service around Berkley and sharpness is very odd lots of double running picked my self and one other up in dursley about 3 drivers aboard route learning picked 2 up in Berkley running into Bristol

caught a 319 at 07:00 this morning left bath at 07:15 and made It into cribbs about 3 mins late good going

The 88 seems to take the same route between Berkeley and Sharpness that the 207 used to before Cotswold Green gave it up. The 207 now takes a simpler route and I'm surprised that First didn't look to simplify the route of the 88.

And I know I keep saying it but the 14 really needs bigger buses than the Enviro 200s it currently has. In particular it really needs buses with two buggy / wheelchair areas like the 05-reg Darts in Bath, which in my opinion have the best interior layout for city buses of all the fleet. Yesterday we had a wheelchair and a buggy in one direction on the 14 and then three buggies in the other direction! The Enviros with their space for one wheelchair or two buggies (just about) really aren't suitable.

 

[Private Baxter]

Oh yes! Where did it all go wrong, the Badgerline group had some crackers!

Indeed, First livery in comparrison to Badgerline is weak. I was never overly keen on Barbie livery, and the new Olympia livery is definitely an improvement, and in fact quite nice, though nothing special. That said it does look particualt good on some buses. I quite like the Express livery used in Weston and Bristol, and the X7 livery is actually pretty stunning. For me one of the best liveries First used was the short lived and under used dark blue and white used on buses that were delivered to Bath and Wells for the X39, 376, 377 and 163 at the end of 2004. And I think some of the darts at Muller Road used it for a while. Not sure what the point of it was though, but shame not more was done with it. Far better than the standard liver of the time imo.

And I know I keep saying it but the 14 really needs bigger buses than the Enviro 200s it currently has. In particular it really needs buses with two buggy / wheelchair areas like the 05-reg Darts in Bath, which in my opinion have the best interior layout for city buses of all the fleet. Yesterday we had a wheelchair and a buggy in one direction on the 14 and then three buggies in the other direction! The Enviros with their space for one wheelchair or two buggies (just about) really aren't suitable.

You're right, they're not really suitable. Too small. The 05 reg darts are perfect, whether they are the smaller MPDs or the larger ones. They should definitely be on here more, esp now they have a few extra ones after being taken off the 178/379. Unfortunatley the 14 is the route that tends to end up with some of the crap as well.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I got a 2 from Cribbs Causeway-Broadmead a few days ago. It took bloody ages. An hour and 25 minutes!! It had Stockwood on the destination display when I got on, but when I departed I noticed it had changed to Broadmead(even though quite a number of people boarded at the Centre!).

That is most concerning. It should only take just under an hour at the most! (well, 54 minutes to be exact!)

Does anybody know why the fact it takes 54 minutes is a coincidence? Will be pleased if someone notices!

 

[vicbury]

You're right, they're not really suitable. Too small. The 05 reg darts are perfect, whether they are the smaller MPDs or the larger ones. They should definitely be on here more, esp now they have a few extra ones after being taken off the 178/379. Unfortunatley the 14 is the route that tends to end up with some of the crap as well.

Maybe Bath will get some more Streetlites next year - the shorter ones like used on the 178 would be ideal for the 14 although I'm not familiar with the interior layout on them. They'd definitely need two bays of tip-up seats if they were to be used.

On that point I wonder if we'll see any of the new Enviro 200s next year? I'd be happy if we don't as I can't stand asymetrical design!

 

[Private Baxter]

Maybe Bath will get some more Streetlites next year - the shorter ones like used on the 178 would be ideal for the 14 although I'm not familiar with the interior layout on them. They'd definitely need two bays of tip-up seats if they were to be used.

On that point I wonder if we'll see any of the new Enviro 200s next year? I'd be happy if we don't as I can't stand asymetrical design!

I also thought those streetlites would be good on 14. Bath were originally due fifteen of them, but only got seven or eight in the end. The 14 or 267 would have been good routes for them. Nonetheless very happy that the others went to MH for the X2/X3. Anyway the 14 is a route which definitley needs some upgrading imo.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh yes! Where did it all go wrong, the Badgerline group had some crackers!

Indeed, First livery in comparrison to Badgerline is weak. I was never overly keen on Barbie livery, and the new Olympia livery is definitely an improvement, and in fact quite nice, though nothing special. That said it does look particualt good on some buses. I quite like the Express livery used in Weston and Bristol, and the X7 livery is actually pretty stunning. For me one of the best liveries First used was the short lived and under used dark blue and white used on buses that were delivered to Bath and Wells for the X39, 376, 377 and 163 at the end of 2004. And I think some of the darts at Muller Road used it for a while. Not sure what the point of it was though, but shame not more was done with it. Far better than the standard liver of the time imo.



You're right, they're not really suitable. Too small. The 05 reg darts are perfect, whether they are the smaller MPDs or the larger ones. They should definitely be on here more, esp now they have a few extra ones after being taken off the 178/379. Unfortunatley the 14 is the route that tends to end up with some of the crap as well.

Are you thinking of the Rail Link livery that the 667** Eclipses had? They appeared on the 2006 Darts on the 8/9 and some Lances before that. Think the livery appeared on those Lances for the Taunton to Minehead service?

As for the 449** e200s, wonder where else they could put them? Replace Solos on the Bath routes like the 4 and 10?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe Bath will get some more Streetlites next year - the shorter ones like used on the 178 would be ideal for the 14 although I'm not familiar with the interior layout on them. They'd definitely need two bays of tip-up seats if they were to be used.

On that point I wonder if we'll see any of the new Enviro 200s next year? I'd be happy if we don't as I can't stand asymetrical design!

I don't know if new e200s are on the agenda. Only Cymru got any in 2014 - Streetlites more likely though don't know if 267 will justify it.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I don't know if new e200s are on the agenda. Only Cymru got any in 2014 - Streetlites more likely though don't know if 267 will justify it.

The only thing I'm worried about is that Bristol and Bath will become 'homogenised' in terms of the vehicles it has. Bristol is PLASTERED in Geminis and Streetlites (hence why the six 63-reg Enviro 400s and Darts like 42723 and 42109/15 make the fleet look unique). This is why it'd be nice if Bristol (and Bath for that matter) had a mixture of Streetlites AND Enviro 300s, just for a bit of a difference. Look at routes such as the 1/2, 42/43/44/45, 48/49, 73 and 75/76. You know what to expect when you're waiting at the bus stop (unlike the 319 ha). This is why a mixture in the fleet would be nice, and I'm slightly worried that the Streetlites will follow the same pattern. Hence why a mixture of Streetlites/Enviro 300s and Geminis/Enviro 400s would be nice. Look at First in Manchester. There's Geminis, Enviro 300s AND 400s and Streetlites.

 

[ryson357]

Hopefully for bristol or bath there would be enviro 300's NOT 200's!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The only thing I'm worried about is that Bristol and Bath will become 'homogenised' in terms of the vehicles it has. Bristol is PLASTERED in Geminis and Streetlites (hence why the six 63-reg Enviro 400s and Darts like 42723 and 42109/15 make the fleet look unique). This is why it'd be nice if Bristol (and Bath for that matter) had a mixture of Streetlites AND Enviro 300s, just for a bit of a difference. Look at routes such as the 1/2, 42/43/44/45, 48/49, 73 and 75/76. You know what to expect when you're waiting at the bus stop (unlike the 319 ha). This is why a mixture in the fleet would be nice, and I'm slightly worried that the Streetlites will follow the same pattern. Hence why a mixture of Streetlites/Enviro 300s and Geminis/Enviro 400s would be nice. Look at First in Manchester. There's Geminis, Enviro 300s AND 400s and Streetlites.

I doubt if more passengers care and in terms of spares (costs, stock levels and a availability) and procurement, then it makes a lot of sense.

I don't know how unique 42723/109/115 are in comparison with the 05/06 Darts. However, we do have the ALX Darts still plus mk1 and mk2 Eclipses and B10BLEs. We won't get any more Mk1 Geminis so new deckers will be a new type. And of course, Manchester got e300s last year - it's now Streetlites as that's the preferred choice.

They'll always be variety - even Stagecoach fleets do and they're more standardised than anyone.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I doubt if more passengers care and in terms of spares (costs, stock levels and a availability) and procurement, then it makes a lot of sense.

I don't know how unique 42723/109/115 are in comparison with the 05/06 Darts. However, we do have the ALX Darts still plus mk1 and mk2 Eclipses and B10BLEs. We won't get any more Mk1 Geminis so new deckers will be a new type. And of course, Manchester got e300s last year - it's now Streetlites as that's the preferred choice.

They'll always be variety - even Stagecoach fleets do and they're more standardised than anyone.

I know passengers won't care as to them a bus is a bus and is essentially just a box on four wheels but as an enthusiast I'd like to see some variety. The Darts are all from the same batch whereas 42109/115/723 are fairly unique.

Streetlites may well be the preferred choice but if a city is covered with them it'll look so boring. Or at least do what Reading do and have them all colour coordinated.

Slightly contradicting what I said earlier, Bristol does have B7RLEs, Geminis, ALX400s, Darts, Streetlites, B10Ls (or B10Bs, whatever are used on the 78/79), Enviro 400s and Enviro 200s, although in general it is mainly the Geminis and Streetlites that dominate the streets of Bristol.

I also like the ex-Southampton batch of Tridents that have recently moved to Hengrove.

However, when I say a variety, I do NOT mean to the extent of the 319. One day I saw FIVE different types of buses on there, which was just ridiculous. I do wish there was a fixed fleet on there. Some of the tiny Darts (4255x range) were on there the other day and they are just FAR too small for such a route. The 319 to me is a mixture of different routes all fused together, so a moderately sized bus would be nice for the route. It's like putting a Pacer or a Sprinter on the Aberdeen to Penzance XC service!

I personally think the 319 should be a decker route, as it's constantly busy. Either full 100% operation from the current Tridents there (32282, 32284, etc), Geminis or a batch of 6 or 7 Enviro 400s (like the X1 has). I would even like to see branded vehicles on it, the same view also going for other routes in Bristol such as the 1/2, 8/9, 42/43/44/45, 70/71/72 and the 75/76.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know passengers won't care as to them a bus is a bus and is essentially just a box on four wheels but as an enthusiast I'd like to see some variety. The Darts are all from the same batch whereas 42109/115/723 are fairly unique.

Streetlites may well be the preferred choice but if a city is covered with them it'll look so boring. Or at least do what Reading do and have them all colour coordinated.

Slightly contradicting what I said earlier, Bristol does have B7RLEs, Geminis, ALX400s, Darts, Streetlites, B10Ls (or B10Bs, whatever are used on the 78/79), Enviro 400s and Enviro 200s, although in general it is mainly the Geminis and Streetlites that dominate the streets of Bristol.

I also like the ex-Southampton batch of Tridents that have recently moved to Hengrove.

However, when I say a variety, I do NOT mean to the extent of the 319. One day I saw FIVE different types of buses on there, which was just ridiculous. I do wish there was a fixed fleet on there. Some of the tiny Darts (4255x range) were on there the other day and they are just FAR too small for such a route. The 319 to me is a mixture of different routes all fused together, so a moderately sized bus would be nice for the route. It's like putting a Pacer or a Sprinter on the Aberdeen to Penzance XC service!

I personally think the 319 should be a decker route, as it's constantly busy. Either full 100% operation from the current Tridents there (32282, 32284, etc), Geminis or a batch of 6 or 7 Enviro 400s (like the X1 has). I would even like to see branded vehicles on it, the same view also going for other routes in Bristol such as the 1/2, 8/9, 42/43/44/45, 70/71/72 and the 75/76.

The 319 should really just be B7Ls with deckers for the relevant boards. It is a busy little route but that would be helped by spacing the 18 better. The problem is that it is operated by Bath and its more likely to be delayed at the Cribbs end so if it's running late, then vehicles have to be slotted in. Sometimes, it's whatever is spare, hence an MPD or e200. It's a tricky route to keep everything together.

I don't see much difference between a 1998 and a 2005 Pointer Dart myself. After all, we now have Streetlites of four batches and two wheelbases. However, things will never be as bad as you fear. For a start, bus designs change every 7/8 years (if not sooner) so you're likely to have 3 generations of each type.

Bristol gets visited by 2 batches of e400, B10BLE, two types of B7RLE Eclipse, B7L Eclipses, two lengths of Streetlite, range of Pointer, Marshall and ALX Darts, Solos, e200s, B7TLs on ALX and Gemini plus Geminis on B9TL. Then you've got the Tridents and the EL Dart which are probably short term. Lots of variety still.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 319 should really just be B7Ls with deckers for the relevant boards. It is a busy little route but that would be helped by spacing the 18 better. The problem is that it is operated by Bath and its more likely to be delayed at the Cribbs end so if it's running late, then vehicles have to be slotted in. Sometimes, it's whatever is spare, hence an MPD or e200. It's a tricky route to keep everything together.

Indeed. One thing I find utterly ridiculous is that there are four routes running from Bristol Parkway to UWE (the 81, 81, 83 and the 319), yet they all run within seven minutes of each other!

I also think it'd be better if a depot existed at Patchway (as FTV33 has said on several occasions) and if it was 50-50 operation between there and Bath. Therefore delays aren't so bad.

I don't see much difference between a 1998 and a 2005 Pointer Dart myself. After all, we now have Streetlites of four batches and two wheelbases. However, things will never be as bad as you fear. For a start, bus designs change every 7/8 years (if not sooner) so you're likely to have 3 generations of each type.

There isn't much of a difference really (well there's some exceptions), they all look the same.

]Bristol gets visited by 2 batches of e400, B10BLE, two types of B7RLE Eclipse, B7L Eclipses, two lengths of Streetlite, range of Pointer, Marshall and ALX Darts, Solos, e200s, B7TLs on ALX and Gemini plus Geminis on B9TL. Then you've got the Tridents and the EL Dart which are probably short term. Lots of variety still.

Most of them are somewhat sporadic though.

 

[Private Baxter]

Are you thinking of the Rail Link livery that the 667** Eclipses had? They appeared on the 2006 Darts on the 8/9 and some Lances before that. Think the livery appeared on those Lances for the Taunton to Minehead service?

Yes, the Raillink livery. It looked rather grand on those eclipses and would have been nice as the standard livery. The Lances at Taunton carried it in around 2001/2 for the 28, before their eventual transfer to Bath.

However, when I say a variety, I do NOT mean to the extent of the 319. One day I saw FIVE different types of buses on there, which was just ridiculous. I do wish there was a fixed fleet on there. Some of the tiny Darts (4255x range) were on there the other day and they are just FAR too small for such a route. The 319 to me is a mixture of different routes all fused together, so a moderately sized bus would be nice for the route. It's like putting a Pacer or a Sprinter on the Aberdeen to Penzance XC service!

I personally think the 319 should be a decker route, as it's constantly busy. Either full 100% operation from the current Tridents there (32282, 32284, etc), Geminis or a batch of 6 or 7 Enviro 400s (like the X1 has). I would even like to see branded vehicles on it, the same view also going for other routes in Bristol such as the 1/2, 8/9, 42/43/44/45, 70/71/72 and the 75/76.

The 319 is defintely a route that could do with some standardisation. It just seems to end up with whatever's left, which could be anything in the Bath fleet other than the bendies. Those deckers you mention would be very good actually, as they are not currently allocated to a route. Otherwise the 54 plate eclpises as GrandWazzo suggested would be very good indeed, that is WHEN they are replaced on the 265 by the newer 59 plate ones. Wishful thinking I know. Still on the subject of 319, any one else think it will be renumbered next year? The 31 might be an appropriate number....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, the Raillink livery. It looked rather grand on those eclipses and would have been nice as the standard livery. The Lances at Taunton carried it in around 2001/2 for the 28, before their eventual transfer to Bath.



The 319 is defintely a route that could do with some standardisation. It just seems to end up with whatever's left, which could be anything in the Bath fleet other than the bendies. Those deckers you mention would be very good actually, as they are not currently allocated to a route. Otherwise the 54 plate eclpises as GrandWazzo suggested would be very good indeed, that is WHEN they are replaced on the 265 by the newer 59 plate ones. Wishful thinking I know. Still on the subject of 319, any one else think it will be renumbered next year? The 31 might be an appropriate number....

You'll have to renumber one of the P&R routes - is it Newbridge?

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 319 is defintely a route that could do with some standardisation. It just seems to end up with whatever's left, which could be anything in the Bath fleet other than the bendies. Those deckers you mention would be very good actually, as they are not currently allocated to a route. Otherwise the 54 plate eclpises as GrandWazzo suggested would be very good indeed, that is WHEN they are replaced on the 265 by the newer 59 plate ones. Wishful thinking I know. Still on the subject of 319, any one else think it will be renumbered next year? The 31 might be an appropriate number....

I agree. It's really embarrassing to be honest. Deckers would be great. Especially branded ones. I'd love it.

The 31 is already a Bath route, the Lansdown P&R. I think the 19 would be fine, as a continuation from the 18 (which it currently shares the same route between Little Stoke and Downend) and as a shortened version from 319!

On a slightly different note, the fare between UWE and Parkway for students is just £1 flat (it should be £1.05 with a student card - 30% of £1.50)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed. One thing I find utterly ridiculous is that there are four routes running from Bristol Parkway to UWE (the 81, 81, 83 and the 319), yet they all run within seven minutes of each other!

I also think it'd be better if a depot existed at Patchway (as FTV33 has said on several occasions) and if it was 50-50 operation between there and Bath. Therefore delays aren't so bad.

Most of them are somewhat sporadic though.

Of course they're sporadic. That's almost the thing that defines small batches.

I think you're being a bit pessimistic. Firstly, even in the days of standardisation, there was always variety. Go back to 1984 when the NBC held sway in Bristol. You had the last Lodekkas, VRs of three Marquez plus single and dual door. Plus REs of flat and BET windscreens, a few last LHs, Mk1 and 2 Nationals. Then Leopard and Tiger coaches plus all sorts of oddballs that I'm sure I've forgotten. It was ever thus

I'm just pleased that First are investing, people are getting new buses that are well specced and reliable, and ultimately more people will travel.

Ps Having half the operation at a theoretical Patchway depot wouldn't really solve the problem. It's the sheer length of the route, the frequency and volatility of traffic congestion that is the issue.

 

[Private Baxter]

I agree. It's really embarrassing to be honest. Deckers would be great. Especially branded ones. I'd love it.

The 31 is already a Bath route, the Lansdown P&R. I think the 19 would be fine, as a continuation from the 18 (which it currently shares the same route between Little Stoke and Downend) and as a shortened version from 319!

On a slightly different note, the fare between UWE and Parkway for students is just £1 flat (it should be £1.05 with a student card - 30% of £1.50)

Silly me, I quite forgot about the Lansdown P&R. But in actual fact the 19 would be bettert by the sounds of it. Simply drop the 3 and you have continuity with other routes in the region. Perhaps that would be a good time for route allocation??

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Silly me, I quite forgot about the Lansdown P&R. But in actual fact the 19 would be bettert by the sounds of it. Simply drop the 3 and you have continuity with other routes in the region. Perhaps that would be a good time for route allocation??

Apart from the Wessex 19 which Is why I suspect they didnt change it before!

 

[freetoview33]

If you were to split the 319 how would you do it?

 

[DaveHarries]

Hopefully for bristol or bath there would be enviro 300's NOT 200's!

ATM I find there is not enough legroom on E300s or E200s but I don't know what the new versions will be like. No problem on E400s though.

Dave