Celtic Sea Tunnel?

[route:oxford]

Which route to Ireland would result in the most valuable mineral extraction?

 

[SeanG]

After all that nonsense above can I suggest a serious route now please:

Reopen the line to Fleetwood, then tunnel under to Barrow, then onto the Cumrian Coast to Whitehaven.

Then we have a tunnel to Douglas where we can have a good bit of dual gauge along the IoM Steam Railway to Port Erin, before a tunnel to Ireland.

 

[Clip]

What nonsense? There is even one more that I found added to the one 59CosG95 had said which is the one I meant, the Chesapeake bay bridge tunnel

And yet looking at yours you had the temerity to call mine rubbish LOL

 

[185]

Merseyrail service, calling at Hoylake, West Kirby, blubblubblub, Abergele and Pensarn, bllblblblbl....

and Connolly.

That is all.

 

[CallySleeper]

New Railway to Ballymena

Though I might benefit from this once a year I don't really think it's very worthy...

Beautiful picture in the OP by the way.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

After all that nonsense above can I suggest a serious route now please:

Reopen the line to Fleetwood, then tunnel under to Barrow, then onto the Cumrian Coast to Whitehaven.

Then we have a tunnel to Douglas where we can have a good bit of dual gauge along the IoM Steam Railway to Port Erin, before a tunnel to Ireland.

I think reopening the line from Peel ro Douglas would be better than having steam trains slowing the line down.

 

[Con]

The EU paying for it? As I am probably the only person who, once a year, travels from Donegal to London via train and boat from Londonderry obviously I don't have a problem with this proposal

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are there any geological fault lines that could be problematical for any under-sea tunnel of that length situated where the proposal discusses?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Stop building tunnels and build bloody bridges. Or bridges then tunnels or vice versa. Im sure theres one somewhere that starts out as a tunnel then into a bridge. Impressive stuff but I may have dreamt it

Chesapeake Bay area in the USA is a combination of tunnel and bridge. -Sorry just seeen post 33. And I have done it- TWICE. Great engineering.

 

[33Hz]

The last time this was suggested serious (by Arup I think) it was proposed to be a sunken box into a cut and cover trench. This was supposed to be a quarter of the cost of a bored tunnel.

The reason Holyhead - Dublin is suggested (apart from the obvious Dublin being the largest city) is that there is a very deep trench between Stranraer and Belfast. Didn't they dump lots of ex WW2 ammunition into it?

 

[Bevan Price]

Are there any geological fault lines that could be problematical for any under-sea tunnel of that length situated where the proposal discusses?

The waters in the north Irish Sea are very deep - over 300 metres in some parts. So you would probably need long approach sections of tunnel on land at both sides, to avoid very steep gradients.

I should add that such depths of water make a Scotland - Ulster bridge almost impossible.

 

[Hornet]

Dublin is the ideal place for an expensive, and vastly underused piece of major infrastructure. (Dublin Airport T2, Dublin Port Tunnel, Motorway system except for the M50). The capacity for Irish Politicians to literally burn euro's has to be seen to be believed. I wouldn't let the clowns in the Dial anywhere near a project like this. Pie in the sky.

 

[reb0118]

Ireland is not part of the UK.
The days of the British empire are over.

Ireland was never really part of the Empire per se it was an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland.

That said if there was to be a tunnel built, however unlikely, I think it would be from Scotland to Northern Ireland - possibly (fantasy?) with a reopening of the Port Road from (Carlisle) - Dumfries - Dunragit -(Stranraer).

 

[rebmcr]

That said if there was to be a tunnel built, however unlikely, I think it would be from Scotland to Northern Ireland.

I doubt any route that fails to compete with air travel to London will be economically feasible.

South Wales > North Wales >> Scotland.

 

[route:oxford]

I doubt any route that fails to compete with air travel to London will be economically feasible.

South Wales > North Wales >> Scotland.

Air travel... Now there's a point.

If there were a High-speed link from Glasgow to Dublin - it would absolutly decimate both Glasgow International and Sturgeon International Airport.

Why would you pay megatax to fly internationally when you could hop on a train and pay a pittance in tax and fly from Dublin?

 

[DT611]

Dublin is the ideal place for an expensive, and vastly underused piece of major infrastructure. (Dublin Airport T2, Dublin Port Tunnel, Motorway system except for the M50). The capacity for Irish Politicians to literally burn euro's has to be seen to be believed. I wouldn't let the clowns in the Dial anywhere near a project like this. Pie in the sky.

absolutely. infact, even if they were careful with money this would still be pie in the sky and isn't going to happen

 

[D1009]

If there were a High-speed link from Glasgow to Dublin - it would absolutly decimate both Glasgow International and Sturgeon International Airport.

If anyone's wondering, Nicola Sturgeon came from the Prestwick area.
What proportion of the business of those two airports is to and from Ireland?

 

[3141]

In science fiction stories an Atlantic Tunnel appears from time to time. Authors don't usually bother about the details of where it might emerge. Being American they're mostly road tunnels. Authors don't bother about sorting out the ventilation either. I'd put the Celtic Tunnel in the same general category - or perhaps science fantasy.

 

[rebmcr]

In science fiction stories an Atlantic Tunnel appears from time to time. Authors don't usually bother about the details of where it might emerge. Being American they're mostly road tunnels. Authors don't bother about sorting out the ventilation either. I'd put the Celtic Tunnel in the same general category - or perhaps science fantasy.

There are more serious depictions of a transatlantic vacuum tube — sub-2-hours London-New York is very feasible.

 

[snowball]

There are more serious depictions of a transatlantic vacuum tube

Isn't that what used to be called a valve over here?

 

[Envoy]

It's doddery old Prof Cole at the University of Glamorgan now Uni of South Wales.

I find most of the ideas by this 'academic' to be totally ridiculous. He is the person who suggested that Cardiff Airport could be a 'Western Gateway' to relieve Heathrow of flights to America. A new high speed rail line would then transport people from Cardiff Airport to London.
Now Germanwings have pulled out of Cardiff Airport. It is quite clear that one airport is needed to serve both Bristol & Cardiff and the optimum place for such an airport is somewhere near the Severn Tunnel/bridge. The present locations of Cardiff & Bristol Airports are well away from the main lines of communication with no direct rail access and no dual highways to the motorway system.

Now he is suggesting that a new M4 south of Newport is not needed and that a cheapskate scheme to upgrade roads through south Newport would do. The trouble is that Plaid Cymru actually go along with this idea as no doubt, do some Labour politicians. Let us hope that Edwina sticks to her guns and gets the thing built as soon as possible. (Arup have already made millions over the last 20 years acting as consultants for the Newport south M4).

Anyway, the report by Prof.Cole and his chums can be read here (click for the PDF): http://www.ciltuk.org.uk/PublicPolicy/Vision2035.aspx

 

[class26]

I find some most of the ideas by this 'academic' to be totally ridiculous. He is the person who suggested that Cardiff Airport could be a 'Western Gateway' to relieve Heathrow of flights to America. A new high speed rail line would then transport people from Cardiff Airport to London = bonkers!
Now Germanwings have pulled out of Cardiff Airport. It is quite clear that one airport is needed to serve both Bristol & Cardiff and the optimum place for such an airport is somewhere near the Severn Tunnel/bridge. The present locations of Cardiff & Bristol Airports are well away from the main lines of communication with no direct rail access and no dual highways to the motorway system.

Now he is suggesting that a new M4 south of Newport is not needed and that a cheapskate scheme to upgrade roads through south Newport would do. The trouble is that Plaid Cymru actually go along with this idea as no doubt, do some Labour politicians. Let us hope that Edwina sticks to her guns and gets the thing built as soon as possible. (Arup have already made millions over the last 20 years acting as consultants for the Newport south M4).

Anyway, the report by Prof.Cole and his chums can be read here (click for the PDF): http://www.ciltuk.org.uk/PublicPolicy/Vision2035.aspx

Even with a high speed line from Cardiff to London it isn`t going to be much faster, if at all than the present Pendolino from Birmingham airport to London without all those billions spent and Birmingham airport is several times busier than Cardiff already with (from 2015) 2 x daily to New York plus Iceland air connections to 16 US cities, daily to Delhi, 2 x daily to Dubai plus Islamabad and a comprehensive European network

Job done !

 

[NotATrainspott]

The main barrier to the least unrealistic length of tunnel (Stranraer-Belfast) is Beaufort's Dyke at between 200 and 300 metres deep. To get around this, I would say that a submerged floating tunnel could be considered, where the tunnel sections would be held in place by tethers to the seabed. This could avoid the need to tunnel so deeply underneath the trench or to need to worry so much about the munitions that were dumped there.

 

[68000]

Plenty of dangerous dumping went on in Beaufort's Dyke

 

[21C101]

Plenty of dangerous dumping went on in Beaufort's Dyke

If you had a tunnel between the Mull of Kintyre and Northern Ireland it would avoid the dyke and cross a much narrower stretch of sea. With a new railway via bridges/tunnels under Loch Fynne and the Firth of Clyde to Wemyss Bay then onto Glasgow, its by far the most direct route and high speed Belfast - Glasgow trains wouldn't take much more than an hour.

Route would follow existing line from Glasgow to Wemyss Bay, under Firth of Clyde to Dunan, across Loch Striven to Rothesay (new Station), across Isle of B Bute then Kyles of Bute to Kames, across to Portavadie then under Loch Fynne to Tarbert (New Station), down Kintyre to Campbelltown (Station) down to Mull and under Irish sea to Cushendall, line continues to Ballymena and follow existing railway to Belfast.

 

[HSTEd]

The Mull of Kintyre route may be shortest but it is not really practical due to the length of supporting infrastructure required and the insane water depth - while the Dyke is deeper its average depth is lower.

Beaufort's Dyke and Stranraer is the best option - and is well within current engineering capabilities if someone is willing to pay.
Really though a bridge or causeway is the best option as the Channel Tunnel shows that a non-drive through connection is almost worthless.
A Drive through alignment would kill virtually every Irish Sea Ferry route on price and journey time.

A tunnel that was drive through would be best but is likely impractical.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The original idea contained in this thread is of a tunnel from Wales.

With regard to tunnels from Scotland, there have indeed been some previous instances of thread debates over the last few years on this website.

 

[jopsuk]

clearly the "answer" is a HS line branching off HS2, out to Holyhead, under to Dublin, up to Belfast then on to Glasgow.

 

[edwin_m]

Really though a bridge or causeway is the best option as the Channel Tunnel shows that a non-drive through connection is almost worthless.
A Drive through alignment would kill virtually every Irish Sea Ferry route on price and journey time.

If that is so, then why does the Tunnel hold a market share of 40% of the much larger cross-Channel market (source: Competition Commission)?

 

[NotATrainspott]

A tunnel that was drive through would be best but is likely impractical.

A rail tunnel can take rail and road traffic but a road tunnel can only take road vehicles. With the advent of high speed rail in the British Isles and the start of the end of the low cost airline boom, the better long term solution is to enable city-to-city high speed rail via a good rail tunnel. At 400km/h, London-Dublin and London-Belfast via any route would be competitive with air.