First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree but I just think it'd be nice to have a standard fleet to be honest!

Seen one or two about. Might just be a breakdown?

As for 319, think we've done it to death. It's just a long route operated from Bath but with a wealth of potential traffic problems (Cribbs, Parkway, UWE, Ring Road nr Frenchay, plus the drag through Downend to Kingswood) that are at the other end of the route. It has just a couple of boards that need deckers whilst single decks are sufficient for the remainder.

 

[Class 33]

This morning I saw an Alx 400 Volvo B7 on the X18 towards Kingswood.

And also three Alx 400 Volvo B7's on the 79. Has this service now been upgraded to a double decker service possibly?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This morning I saw an Alx 400 Volvo B7 on the X18 towards Kingswood.

And also three Alx 400 Volvo B7's on the 79. Has this service now been upgraded to a double decker service possibly?

The 79 can get a few on but not normally enough for deckers? Really should be every 20 mins with single deckers but given the driver shortage, not an option

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yes, at Cribbs Causeway the 75's become 76's and the 76's becomes 75's. A bit of an annoying instance for me the other day was when I had finished work and walking to the Cribbs Causeway terminus to get a bus home I saw one of those ex-Glasgow tridents on the 75 about to finish it's journey. "YES! I'll get that one on the 76 back!" I don't normally bother much with the 76 as I dislike the round the houses route via Henbury and Southmead it takes, but I wouldn't have minded the journey if it was on one of these beauties. However that bus must have been running a little late, as instead of a short rest in the bays at Cribbs Causeway it ran straight round to the 76 bus stop, swiftly picked up passengers and away it went. And I just missed it by about one minute!

Ah that's a nightmare!

Yeah same with the 1 and 2! Didn't realise they swapped until like last week!

 

[freetoview33]

Not all 1+2 and 75+76 swap! Seems to be every other!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not all 1+2 and 75+76 swap! Seems to be every other!

Every 1/2 was swapping yesterday afternoon, so not sure!

As for 319, think we've done it to death. It's just a long route operated from Bath but with a wealth of potential traffic problems (Cribbs, Parkway, UWE, Ring Road nr Frenchay, plus the drag through Downend to Kingswood) that are at the other end of the route. It has just a couple of boards that need deckers whilst single decks are sufficient for the remainder.

I don't think the length of the route has anything to do with it's stock. Look at the X1 in Norfolk and Suffolk. That's about a 4 hour journey yet it has Enviro 400s throughout.

But hey, that's just my personal opinion.

 

[LAIRA]

I belive Plymouth now have 3 B6's ex Bristol

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Every 1/2 was swapping yesterday afternoon, so not sure!



I don't think the length of the route has anything to do with it's stock. Look at the X1 in Norfolk and Suffolk. That's about a 4 hour journey yet it has Enviro 400s throughout.

But hey, that's just my personal opinion.

The length of the route affects reliablity. The 319 is particularly volatile (because of Bristol's traffic) and THAT means you have to turn out whatever might be to hand. Of course, you could build in recovery time at Cribbs (but that doesn't help you on the return journey if the traffic's screwed). Or you can build in extra running time but that means you end up waiting time at various points. Both would also mean an extra vehicle which has to be paid for.

In respect of the X1, there's a number of key points....

• Loadings dictate deckers on the X1 - the 319 doesn't except a couple of boards and you don't run deckers if you don't need to (like the 36 as well) because of the higher capital cost, higher fuel bill, longer dwell times etc
• The service is long and WAS 4 hrs long but (not surprisingly) it was suffering reliability issues and so was split six months ago (Peterborough to Norwich) and (Norwich for Lowestoft)
• For the western portion, the depot is at Kings Lynn is mid route not at one end so you can slip a bus in easier potentially
• The X1 is the ONLY route Kings Lynn depot have (they sold the rest to Norfolk Green) so the only spares are of one type
• The eastern end is now at a different frequency and is operated by both E400s and Geminis

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not all 1+2 and 75+76 swap! Seems to be every other!

Perhaps StaitJohn can clarify? Might be the case that it's a scheduled swap or possible done "on the hoof" depends on how things are delayed

 

[matt_splat]

and todays figures on the 121 11:30 ish Bristol Airport - Bristol 15 on board at the airport heading for town with 2 waiting in felton

meanwhile 7 people were on the last 121 from the Airport to Weston when it arrived at the airport about 7pm

lots of people will be cut off further down the route or be forced to pay more from Monday

 

[freetoview33]

and todays figures on the 121 11:30 ish Bristol Airport - Bristol 15 on board at the airport heading for town with 2 waiting in felton

meanwhile 7 people were on the last 121 from the Airport to Weston when it arrived at the airport about 7pm

lots of people will be cut off further down the route or be forced to pay more from Monday

I think it is squarely aimed at A) Saving NSC money and B) forcing people onto the A1 and paying more to get to/from the Airport. Just a shame for people in Felton being screwed over!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think it is squarely aimed at A) Saving NSC money and B) forcing people onto the A1 and paying more to get to/from the Airport. Just a shame for people in Felton being screwed over!

Isn't the 121 commercial? Or have I misunderstood you?

 

[matt_splat]

its more likely been done so the A2 doesn't look a waste of money which it is as it doesn't really serve staff times very well

 

[stait.john]

Today's sightings:
41687 X9
69453 24
37766 (I think it was) X18
42961 8/9 again
32940 still out on the 36 at 2230
John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The 1/2 is 34 buses weekdays and some swap at Cribbs some do not, I can't really explain how/why and there isn't any consistency to it! Same with 75/76 actually. Easier to turn late running buses if they stay on the same route!

John

 

[Private Baxter]

Who pays for the A2 then? It's not on the same tarrif as the A1 is it, and therefore nothing to do with the airport. Is it council funded/supported, or do First run it commercially?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

its more likely been done so the A2 doesn't look a waste of money which it is as it doesn't really serve staff times very well

Who pays for the A2 then?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry not quite sure what happened with my posting there!!

 

[swifty]

Who pays for the A2 then? It's not on the same tarrif as the A1 is it, and therefore nothing to do with the airport. Is it council funded/supported, or do First run it commercially?

It was North Somersets brainchild and they support it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was looking through the timetable booklets earlier and noticed that the 88 off peak journeys will now operate from the M5 into Bristol via the A38, the only stop listed on Traveline is Filton College.

 

[DaveHarries]

its more likely been done so the A2 doesn't look a waste of money which it is as it doesn't really serve staff times very well

A quick thought here. My work schedule on Wednesday 7th gave me the opportunity for a last ride on the 121 when I used the 10:50 from Bedminster Parade through to Winscombe. I used to use the 121 on a daily basis (Monday to Friday, during termtime) when I was a pupil of the school at Sidcot (1995 - 2000) as it was cheaper to get home on than the bus that the school laid on. At one point the bus laid on by the school cost £6 per day but my Dad gave me a lift to school and I would get back to Bristol at the end of the day for a single fare of £2.35 by getting the 16:05 from Winscombe (Browns Corner). When I went into the sixth form I had two mornings per week where I could get the 8:30 from Bristol Bus Station which, in those days, ran as Service 120, and I would then get off outside the school at 9:45. The return fare was, I remember, £3.00.

I always appreciated the rural nature of the 121 and I will miss that route.

Anyway the A2 strikes me as being a total waste of money. If they wanted to give a more frequent service to the villages between Bristol Airport and Weston-super-Mare that are currently served by the 121 then why not simply run the 121 hourly between the Airport and Weston and drop the A2 completely? The section between Bristol Airport and Bristol, via. Felton and Winford, could remain bi-hourly. On my trip on 7th January I had a chat with an OAP who will now not be able to get into Bristol to go shopping as she lives in Winford which will now have no bus service at all (AFAIK) after the 121 goes. The taxi would cost quite a bit as she would have to pay for it both ways: about £20 each way at least?

Meanwhile, North Somerset Council are, I reckon, going to look a laughing stock if the A2 fails and is withdrawn. If that happened then presumably the 121 would come back into existence end-to-end and that would be no bad thing.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was North Somersets brainchild and they support it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was looking through the timetable booklets earlier and noticed that the 88 off peak journeys will now operate from the M5 into Bristol via the A38, the only stop listed on Traveline is Filton College.

"The A2 has been made possible through the Department for Transport Local Sustainable Transport Fund (LSTF) improving transport links in and around North Somerset for those travelling to work, school or training. - See more at: http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/News/Pages/Free-travel-on-new-bus-service.aspx#sthash.qvCQ8gj5.dpuf"

From the NSC website - thought it had some Central government funding

 

[freetoview33]

http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/News/Pages/Local-bus-services-to-continue-despite-budget-savings.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I do still think the A2 is a waste of money, although yes the 121 was commercial I do think First told NSC that they couldn't keep running it (Hence the changes). It does also say about looking into more Off Peak services for Felton but who knows.

I guess it is hard to strike a balance of serving places near the airport but at the same time making sure people still get the more expensive A1.

 

[swifty]

"The A2 has been made possible through the Department for Transport Local Sustainable Transport Fund (LSTF) improving transport links in and around North Somerset for those travelling to work, school or training. - See more at: http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/News/Pages/Free-travel-on-new-bus-service.aspx#sthash.qvCQ8gj5.dpuf"

From the NSC website - thought it had some Central government funding

Thought it Might've been, couldn't be bothered to check as I know we've done A2 funding numerous times before!

 

[Colly405]

It was North Somersets brainchild and they support it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was looking through the timetable booklets earlier and noticed that the 88 off peak journeys will now operate from the M5 into Bristol via the A38, the only stop listed on Traveline is Filton College.

I've seen 88s on the current timetable heading north on the A38 between Filton Rbt and Aztec West...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/News/Pages/Local-bus-services-to-continue-despite-budget-savings.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I do still think the A2 is a waste of money, although yes the 121 was commercial I do think First told NSC that they couldn't keep running it (Hence the changes). It does also say about looking into more Off Peak services for Felton but who knows.

I guess it is hard to strike a balance of serving places near the airport but at the same time making sure people still get the more expensive A1.

I don't know if that many punters were using the 121 to go to the Airport? However, First could just have bypassed the airport if they wanted to protect the A1.

I think the more likely scenario was that NSC wanted to bolster the A2 whilst First probably wanted to make the southern half of the 121 hourly to supplement the 126. This was the result (though I don't think it's right)

 

[ValleyLines142]

The length of the route affects reliablity. The 319 is particularly volatile (because of Bristol's traffic) and THAT means you have to turn out whatever might be to hand. Of course, you could build in recovery time at Cribbs (but that doesn't help you on the return journey if the traffic's screwed). Or you can build in extra running time but that means you end up waiting time at various points. Both would also mean an extra vehicle which has to be paid for.

In respect of the X1, there's a number of key points....

• Loadings dictate deckers on the X1 - the 319 doesn't except a couple of boards and you don't run deckers if you don't need to (like the 36 as well) because of the higher capital cost, higher fuel bill, longer dwell times etc
• The service is long and WAS 4 hrs long but (not surprisingly) it was suffering reliability issues and so was split six months ago (Peterborough to Norwich) and (Norwich for Lowestoft)
• For the western portion, the depot is at Kings Lynn is mid route not at one end so you can slip a bus in easier potentially
• The X1 is the ONLY route Kings Lynn depot have (they sold the rest to Norfolk Green) so the only spares are of one type
• The eastern end is now at a different frequency and is operated by both E400s and Geminis

I didn't mention double deckers on the 319? Just a standard fleet, whether it be Geminis, Enviro 400s, B7RLEs, Streetlites, etc. I was talking about how anything is chucked on it.

Also, freetoview33's idea about having a depot near Patchway (which I do think is a good idea) means that half of the 319 operations could be split there, thus preventing the issue of long-distance running which has in turn led to unreliability.

Saying that, 62194 arrived three minutes EARLY on the 1422 departure from UWE to Cribbs Causeway on Tuesday, which I was very shocked about!

On another mission to find more Enviro 400s today. And I must admit GrandWazoo, despite being stylish and smart looking vehicles, they are VERY bumpy (well, these ex-Leicester examples are anyway!). Going through Hartcliffe was very fun

 

[Private Baxter]

http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/News/Pages/Local-bus-services-to-continue-despite-budget-savings.aspx
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I do still think the A2 is a waste of money, although yes the 121 was commercial I do think First told NSC that they couldn't keep running it (Hence the changes). It does also say about looking into more Off Peak services for Felton but who knows.

I guess it is hard to strike a balance of serving places near the airport but at the same time making sure people still get the more expensive A1.

First have only been doing the 121 for a couple of years, if that. Previously it was council funded and operated by Bakers (who still do the Sunday service, or at least did till last Sunday). Before that however First were doing it presumably on a commercial basis and the service dates back at least as far as Badgerline days, if not further.

I don't think the A1 is really intended for people in local villages wanting to get to the airport, or into town. It is for holiday makers arriving in Bristol, and people from all over the region who are going on holiday, hence the seperate prices, and the fact the airport sets the prices and dicttates the service. First just operate it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I didn't mention double deckers on the 319? Just a standard fleet, whether it be Geminis, Enviro 400s, B7RLEs, Streetlites, etc. I was talking about how anything is chucked on it.

Also, freetoview33's idea about having a depot near Patchway (which I do think is a good idea) means that half of the 319 operations could be split there, thus preventing the issue of long-distance running which has in turn led to unreliability.

QUOTE]

Yeah, but two of the boards need deckers. The other 5 don't, so you can't have a totally standard fleet unless you're running deckers on boards that don't need them. However, if you're saying 2 ALX400 and 5 B7Ls as the preferred fleet (theoretically), then fair enough.

I really don't see having a depot at Patchway happening. Firstly, they've overspilled into the LH annex. Secondly, the fixed costs for each depot can be quite high. Thirdly, you're not solving the problem if half the boards are retained at Bath - in fact, it makes it more difficult to coordinate which is why depots very rarely share routes these days.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I don't think the A1 is really intended for people in local villages wanting to get to the airport, or into town. It is for holiday makers arriving in Bristol, and people from all over the region who are going on holiday, hence the seperate prices, and the fact the airport sets the prices and dicttates the service. First just operate it.

Agreed. A single journey on the Flyer is £7. No one is going to pay £7 to get from say Bedminster to town when a single on the 75 is £1.50.

On a completely different note, I was surprised (yet pleased at the same time) to see that the A1 has plug sockets on it. I wish all buses in Bristol did, particularly the longer routes such as the 75/76 and the X1.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Agreed. A single journey on the Flyer is £7. No one is going to pay £7 to get from say Bedminster to town when a single on the 75 is £1.50.

On a completely different note, I was surprised (yet pleased at the same time) to see that the A1 has plug sockets on it. I wish all buses in Bristol did, particularly the longer routes such as the 75/76 and the X1.

To be fair, it's not common across the UK. Arriva's Sapphire spec has them - quite handy charging my phone up when I've been on one of their Pulsars or e400s. However, Stagecoach don't on their e400s (or Solos)

Given that in many areas, wifi is still a big new thing (!), we may have to wait a bit longer for charging points but agree they are useful

 

[vicbury]

On city routes wouldn't plug sockets simply create more problems than they solve as people are constantly moving around the bus and you don't really want cables everywhere. They work well on long-distance trains where there is a stop maybe only every 15 minutes.

As for WiFi I'm yet to be convinced that it's of much use as most people have data allowances however I have seen some people using it on the bus. I'd rather the money was spent on refurbishing seats or smartening up bus stops.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On city routes wouldn't plug sockets simply create more problems than they solve as people are constantly moving around the bus and you don't really want cables everywhere. They work well on long-distance trains where there is a stop maybe only every 15 minutes.

As for WiFi I'm yet to be convinced that it's of much use as most people have data allowances however I have seen some people using it on the bus. I'd rather the money was spent on refurbishing seats or smartening up bus stops.

Fair point on plug sockets. After all, how beneficial is it if you're on the bus for relatively short durations (for the majority of passengers). Guess on the A1, its handy if you forgot your european adapter etc and your phone is out of charge when you get back from holiday!!

As for wifi, many may have a data allowance but don't want to exceed it. Also, there's even areas of Bristol where the signal is poor, let alone in the sticks. The thing is that First see it as standard (along with eLeather - for Arriva and Stagecoach it's a feature!) though the actual impact on capital cost isn't that big. Different if you're having to retrofit an entire fleet (as has now happened and do take your point about smartening up vehicles (the 2005 Bath fleet is quite tired internally).

Agree with you about bus stops but they are generally a council issue and they've little or no money!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yeah, but two of the boards need deckers. The other 5 don't, so you can't have a totally standard fleet unless you're running deckers on boards that don't need them. However, if you're saying 2 ALX400 and 5 B7Ls as the preferred fleet (theoretically), then fair enough.

I see what you mean. Well even 2 ALX400s and 5 B7L's would be better than at the moment!

To be fair, it's not common across the UK. Arriva's Sapphire spec has them - quite handy charging my phone up when I've been on one of their Pulsars or e400s. However, Stagecoach don't on their e400s (or Solos).

Definitely. I'm surprised Stagecoach haven't got them on routes such as the 700 down south. The battery on my phone is awful, so plug sockets are a blessing!

Given that in many areas, wifi is still a big new thing (!), we may have to wait a bit longer for charging points but agree they are useful

Now see Wifi I don't see the point. It relates back to that argument of how long a passenger is on a bus for. I caught the 18 this morning from Parkway, barely a ten minute journey, yet the Wifi was good and I used it as it was there, but I would have been able to live without and didn't need it desperately.

Again it could be good on long distance routes (such as the 700), but it's not something that is desperately required, unless you're operating in some incredibly isolated areas such as the Highlands or the Lake District where signal isn't quite as advanced as say in London!

On city routes wouldn't plug sockets simply create more problems than they solve as people are constantly moving around the bus and you don't really want cables everywhere. They work well on long-distance trains where there is a stop maybe only every 15 minutes.

To be fair the wires are only next to people, they're not exactly stretching across the whole bus and passengers aren't exactly going to go arse over tit (unless they've had a few too many!). It's the same as on a train. I don't think the stopping pattern is related.

As for WiFi I'm yet to be convinced that it's of much use as most people have data allowances however I have seen some people using it on the bus. I'd rather the money was spent on refurbishing seats or smartening up bus stops.

Agreed. Many people have 3G (or 4G now) on their phones, although I appreciate it is annoying when signal is lost.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Now see Wifi I don't see the point. It relates back to that argument of how long a passenger is on a bus for. I caught the 18 this morning from Parkway, barely a ten minute journey, yet the Wifi was good and I used it as it was there, but I would have been able to live without and didn't need it desperately.

Again it could be good on long distance routes (such as the 700), but it's not something that is desperately required, unless you're operating in some incredibly isolated areas such as the Highlands or the Lake District where signal isn't quite as advanced as say in London!

Agreed. Many people have 3G (or 4G now) on their phones, although I appreciate it is annoying when signal is lost.

I guess it depends. To some people, having wifi is akin to a human right irrespective of lenght of journey Also, even in parts of Bristol (parts of Hanham and Kingswood), you have to manage with GPRS so wifi is handy in that respect, and certainly on longer distance services when out in the wilds.

Noticed that when they moved the Bath B6s to Taunton, the wifi kit was removed!