No Welsh Trains to Manchester Airport (Now approved until December 2017)

[Envoy]

It does not seem to make sense that a major tourist area such as north Wales has been denied the chance of having direct trains to/from Manchester Airport. Read story in this link:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/english-airport-welsh-business-travellers-8942206

Plans to link up North Wales and Manchester Airport 'blocked', says Arriva Trains Wales

"Experts say that changes in England mean that the firm will not be able to run regular services to Manchester Airport, which accounts for more Welsh business travellers than any other"

Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) planned to run frequent trains from North Wales and Chester to Manchester Airport from 17 May – but says its plans were blocked at the “final hurdle” despite the “huge” economic benefits at stake.

Manchester Airport will be left without the regular link because the UK Government has earmarked new infrastructure for another rail service to the airport from Yorkshire...

 

[lejog]

"Manchester Airport will be left without the regular link because the UK Government has earmarked new infrastructure for another rail service to the airport from Yorkshire."

Fog in Channel; Continent Cut Off :roll:

Already discussed in this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112021&highlight=reputational+risk&page=2

 

[DarloRich]

English airports for English people

 

[northwichcat]

This has already been discussed in the "New fourth platform at Manchester Airport station." thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112021

 

[185]

Was looking at fares on the NWC and was quite surprised that from Manchester, they are generally double other similar mileage destinations. Watching the few ATW NWC trains that do go through to the airport, there are very few passengers currently using them.

 

[reb0118]

English airports for English people

Quite, although the direct Anglo-Scottish services to MIA seem awfully well loaded. Manchester Airport seems to be able to pull in the punters.

 

[northwichcat]

Quite, although the direct Anglo-Scottish services to MIA seem awfully well loaded. Manchester Airport seems to be able to pull in the punters.

Population of Glasgow and Edinburgh combined is over 1 million. The combined population of the North Wales towns on the Llandudno-Chester line is 10% of that.

 

[markindurham]

Quite, although the direct Anglo-Scottish services to MIA seem awfully well loaded. Manchester Airport seems to be able to pull in the punters.

*pedant alert* A direct rail service from the UK to Miami Airport (MIA) would indeed be something - no doubt the bearded one would want to run it! Manchester Airport is code MCR

Joking apart, yes, Manchester certainly does attract pax - but then it does have a very extensive route network; much more than most other UK regional airports, & many folk do like direct flights, rather than having to change at the likes of London, Amsterdam, Paris, New York, Dubai...

 

[northwichcat]

*pedant alert* A direct rail service from the UK to Miami Airport (MIA) would indeed be something - no doubt the bearded one would want to run it! Manchester Airport is code MCR

No that's Melchor de Mencos Airport! hock:

Manchester Airport's code is MAN. Although MIA is the station code for Manchester Airport station (MAN being Manchester Piccadilly) and considering reb0118 was talking about a rail service to Manchester Airport, MIA was correct.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Quite, although the direct Anglo-Scottish services to MIA seem awfully well loaded. Manchester Airport seems to be able to pull in the punters.

Not particularly to/from the Airport. Manchester area generally, yes.
Most folk leave at Oxford Road/Piccadilly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are those members of this website who have questioned the need for many settlements to have a direct rail link to Manchester Airport railway station in past months/years, without anywhere in Wales entering into such posting equations, so this particular thread and currently reported matters therein must bring great joy to them.

 

[Merseysider]

Is it really that difficult to get off at Piccadilly and catch one of the 9tph to the Airport from there? Blackburn, Chester, Buxton, Nottingham, Derby and Newcastle passengers manage it. As long as the Welsh still have a service to Manchester I don't really see what the issue is.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

English airports for English people

English airports would be rather empty without all the planes with Welsh (Airbus) wings.

 

[johnnychips]

I think passengers from Chester might be peed off if their fast train went to Victoria, or took the slow Piccadilly train and therefore passed about two miles from the airport. Then their train went to Manchester and they then had to change to another one.

 

[eastend43]

Is it really that difficult to get off at Piccadilly and catch one of the 9tph to the Airport from there? Blackburn, Chester, Buxton, Nottingham, Derby and Newcastle passengers manage it. As long as the Welsh still have a service to Manchester I don't really see what the issue is.

For me there is no issue, but my mum or sister would have an issue when they travel from Scotland to fly out from Manchester Airport, even if I told them exactly how and when to change trains. My sister stayed at the Travelodge (or something similar) near Heald Green prior to a morning flight from the airport and still wanted the direct train from Edinburgh (and there is not that many), Also when arranging work meetings, it's handy to say there is a direct train from Manchester Airport to my office near Liverpool Lime St (even if a single change doesn't take much longer).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think passengers from Chester might be peed off if their fast train went to Victoria, or took the slow Piccadilly train and therefore passed about two miles from the airport. Then their train went to Manchester and they then had to change to another one.

Looks like Chester will get 4tph to Manchester though:
- ATW as now (maybe to Victoria, but goes against the policy of not terminating trains there)
- Northern as now (stopper via Altrincham)
- new Northern semi fast via Altrincham
- new Northern semi fast via Warrington BQ to Victoria/Calder Valley

Victoria will eventually have through Airport trains, just like Piccadilly.

 

[northwichcat]

Looks like Chester will get 4tph to Manchester though:
- ATW as now (maybe to Victoria, but goes against the policy of not terminating trains there)
- Northern as now (stopper via Altrincham)
- new Northern semi fast via Altrincham
- new Northern semi fast via Warrington BQ to Victoria/Calder Valley

That's not the current plan based on the Northern ITT minimum spec.

Off-Peak pattern is for an hourly Chester-Manchester service calling at all stations to Northwich, then Knutsford, Altrincham Stockport and Piccadilly with an expected end-to-end journey time of just under 75 minutes. Then an hourly Northwich-Manchester service which will call at all stations between Northwich and Stockport.

Of course a bidder could propose to extend the Northwich services to Chester but I'm doubtful of any doing that.
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Is it really that difficult to get off at Piccadilly and catch one of the 9tph to the Airport from there? Blackburn, Chester, Buxton, Nottingham, Derby and Newcastle passengers manage it. As long as the Welsh still have a service to Manchester I don't really see what the issue is.

Personally I think the best option for Airport services is:
1. Not to have too many stations in the Airport's catchment area more than 1 change from the Airport.
2. To provide easy interchange to/from Airport services and for operators to advertise how people can do that. For instance, for Hull to the Airport don't walk between platform 1 and 13 at Piccadilly when there's a same platform interchange available at Leeds and Huddersfield.

 

[Llanigraham]

From The Cambrian, ATW advise to change at Salop and Crewe.
We are about to book for May and don't see a problem with that.

 

[185]

*pedant alert* A direct rail service from the UK to Miami Airport (MIA) would indeed be something - no doubt the bearded one would want to run it! Manchester Airport is code MCR

I had a Northern Spirit 158 which used to display Miami..... and New York, Sydney and Tokyo. Think it was one end of 158806, used for the Manchester Airport station launch.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's not the current plan based on the Northern ITT minimum spec.

Yes, that's 3tph then, with the Altrincham route sped up.
And then you can always go to the airport via Crewe (my preference).

 

[Clip]

Is it really that difficult to get off at Piccadilly and catch one of the 9tph to the Airport from there? Blackburn, Chester, Buxton, Nottingham, Derby and Newcastle passengers manage it. As long as the Welsh still have a service to Manchester I don't really see what the issue is.

Its for the exact same reason that every town with a population over 5 simply must have a direct train to London

 

[merlodlliw]

I was under the impression ATW/Welsh Government had appealed to the ORR,is this the ORR decision?


Manchester is the key International Airport for North Wales,after all it is The Wales and BORDERS service that was turned down.
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From The Cambrian, ATW advise to change at Salop and Crewe.
We are about to book for May and don't see a problem with that.

Having to use three different trains is a turn off to most travellers,especially the Old & Infirm with luggage.

 

[Busaholic]

Is it really that difficult to get off at Piccadilly and catch one of the 9tph to the Airport from there? Blackburn, Chester, Buxton, Nottingham, Derby and Newcastle passengers manage it. As long as the Welsh still have a service to Manchester I don't really see what the issue is.

Perhaps the absence of Welsh language signs at Picc confuses them.

 

[Llanigraham]

Having to use three different trains is a turn off to most travellers,especially the Old & Infirm with luggage.

If you say so!
However I know plenty locally that are willing to accept it because taking the car or a taxi is much too expensive.
And to be honest, all the connections are easy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps the absence of Welsh language signs at Picc confuses them.

Even with your smillie I find that quite offensive.

 

[northwichcat]

I was under the impression ATW/Welsh Government had appealed to the ORR,is this the ORR decision?

It wasn't an ORR application. It was an application made to Network Rail for additional paths on a route ATW already operate on using the same rolling stock.

Having to use three different trains is a turn off to most travellers,especially the Old & Infirm with luggage.

I agree. Although, the infirm would be better off using a smaller airport like Liverpool (if Liverpool Airport had a station adjoining the terminal.) The station at Manchester Airport is quite a distance from some check-in desks with one station serving 3 terminals.

 

[6Gman]

Does anyone have any figures to tell us how many people from North Wales actually travel to Ringway each year?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Although, the infirm would be better off using a smaller airport like Liverpool (if Liverpool Airport had a station adjoining the terminal.) The station at Manchester Airport is quite a distance from some check-in desks with one station serving 3 terminals.

There are far more destinations served from Manchester Airport than from Liverpool John Lennon Airport.

 

[Class 170101]

It wasn't an ORR application. It was an application made to Network Rail for additional paths on a route ATW already operate on using the same rolling stock.



I agree. Although, the infirm would be better off using a smaller airport like Liverpool (if Liverpool Airport had a station adjoining the terminal.) The station at Manchester Airport is quite a distance from some check-in desks with one station serving 3 terminals.

From the article last line linked on the first page

She said ATW now hoped the airport trains would be introduced in September.

 

[Rhydgaled]

new Northern semi fast via Warrington BQ to Victoria/Calder Valley

Does this replace the ATW peak-time workings between Chester and Manchester which bring the service up to half-hourly? Or will the new W&B franchise in 2018 still have access to paths every 30min between Chester and MAN via Warrington (I assume these paths are available all day, but ATW don't have the stock to run it all day)?

 

[Butts]

For me there is no issue, but my mum or sister would have an issue when they travel from Scotland to fly out from Manchester Airport, even if I told them exactly how and when to change trains. My sister stayed at the Travelodge (or something similar) near Heald Green prior to a morning flight from the airport and still wanted the direct train from Edinburgh (and there is not that many), Also when arranging work meetings, it's handy to say there is a direct train from Manchester Airport to my office near Liverpool Lime St (even if a single change doesn't take much longer).

Why don't they fly from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Manchester and cut out all the farting about ?
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Does anyone have any figures to tell us how many people from North Wales actually travel to Ringway each year?

Hopefully not to many, they should keep those barbarians from Ynys Mon and the like inside Cymru.