Cricket

[Busaholic]

Even though Phil Tufnell never stopped trying to drink the West Indies dry of rum, have an interesting time with various ladies and p*** off Athers royally, he still got picked for tests...

Steve Waugh and Shane Warne were as temperamentally unlike as possible but it didn't stop the former when captain always including the latter in his sides, even in periods when he wasn't taking many wickets, knowing that class would prevail again.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

End of day 4, showed that the declaration by England on 333-7 in their second innings was timed to then give the remainder of that day plus all the final day in which to dismiss the West Indies. Buttler provided one of his customary quick-fire "50 in no time at all" innings to ensure that this could occur.

West Indies, set to score 438 to win in their second innings, closed the day at 98-2 from 40 overs bowled, still requiring 340 more runs on the final day to win.

 

[Greenback]

Steve Waugh and Shane Warne were as temperamentally unlike as possible but it didn't stop the former when captain always including the latter in his sides, even in periods when he wasn't taking many wickets, knowing that class would prevail again.

There should be enough room for different personalities in any team. I think what Oswyntail was getting at was that some players may change when on tour. We know there are those that can't cope with being away from home in a pressurised and stressful environment, I'd imagine there are also those that find that being in a foreign land affects their concentration and confidence enough to be deemed as not considered for a particular match.

 

[Oswyntail]

There should be enough room for different personalities in any team. I think what Oswyntail was getting at was that some players may change when on tour. We know there are those that can't cope with being away from home in a pressurised and stressful environment, I'd imagine there are also those that find that being in a foreign land affects their concentration and confidence enough to be deemed as not considered for a particular match.

Thanks. That sums it up nicely.
It is also worth pointing out that some "rogues" can be good for a team, with a certain amount of "creative tension". Tuffnell and Warne seem to be in this category. Others can be damaging if they work against the team. Not wishing to name any recent candidates, but Botham was an interesting case. In his early days he was in the first category, but there came a time under Willis when he was part of what was referred to as the "Cabal" (Captain and Botham and Lamb - essentially a group of three rogues) which operated against team unity.

 

[Greenback]

There's a fine line between brining a bit of character, creative tension or just a different sort of attitude to a team and working against team unity. I think that Ian Botham is an excellent example. When he was at his peak he was an energising force for England, but when he became complacent his natural character became a negative, rather than a positive for the team.

The truth is, though, that we'll never know exactly what the reasons are when someone is not considered for selection. Quite rightly, in my view, as some things are best kept private for the sake of the player.

 

[DownSouth]

There's a fine line between brining a bit of character, creative tension or just a different sort of attitude to a team and working against team unity. I think that Ian Botham is an excellent example. When he was at his peak he was an energising force for England, but when he became complacent his natural character became a negative, rather than a positive for the team.

Very much the same with Kevin Pietersen, who was the epitome of the English cricket hero in every possible way except for having a funny accent.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well...we've thrown the Test Match away, but at least Jimmy Anderson is England's leading Test bowler. I don't have much praise for Alistair Cook, he's clinging onto his place in the team and his captaincy is lacking aggression. I certainly don't think Trott should open, he's better batting 3 or 4, maybe bring back Moeen Ali or Joe Root up the order?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A gem on an innings by Holder with 103 not out from 149 balls faced, scoring 15 x 4 in the process, sees West Indies finishing on 350-7 and drawing the Test Match.

 

[DownSouth]

Well...we've thrown the Test Match away, but at least Jimmy Anderson is England's leading Test bowler. I don't have much praise for Alistair Cook, he's clinging onto his place in the team and his captaincy is lacking aggression. I certainly don't think Trott should open, he's better batting 3 or 4, maybe bring back Moeen Ali or Joe Root up the order?

Anderson is heading towards being a one man band, a bit like Murali was for many years. Good for Jimmy's stats, but the best thing for the team is when all the bowlers are competing with each other for the wickets.

But I agree, what happened to Ali? I thought he was one of England's better performers throughout 2014 with the bat, and good enough with the ball to play as an all-rounder and therefore allow an additional pace bowler to be selected for more firepower instead of a low-quality specialist spinner.
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A gem on an innings by Holder with 103 not out from 149 balls faced, scoring 15 x 4 in the process, sees West Indies finishing on 350-7 and drawing the Test Match.

That's a moral defeat for England if ever there was one.

The only question is of whether the defensive declaration was about Cook being too afraid of losing to have a crack at a win, or a sound knowledge that he didn't have the firepower to take ten wickets.

 

[Buttsy]

Moeen has been injured since the World Cup and has only recently proved his fitness in the Worcestershire v Yorkshire match earlier this week. He has now got on a plane out to Grenada to join up with the squad and is available for selection for the 2nd test.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only question is of whether the defensive declaration was about Cook being too afraid of losing to have a crack at a win, or a sound knowledge that he didn't have the firepower to take ten wickets.

West Indies batted for 40 overs on the fourth day and then all day on the final day, so to call the England declaration "defensive" when it was made on that part of the fourth day is being somewhat "economical with the truth".

How many wickets did England take in the first innings over the 113 overs that West Indies batted at that point of the match? West Indies batted for 129.4 overs in their second innings and at one stage were 189-6. You really must give credit to Holder for the way he batted in that innings.

 

[Busaholic]

The only question is of whether the defensive declaration was about Cook being too afraid of losing to have a crack at a win, or a sound knowledge that he didn't have the firepower to take ten wickets.

With such a dead pitch, it was possible WI could have got very near winning or even doing so if left with getting say a total of 400 if they'd been given an extra hour to score the runs. Tredwell is no Swann, unfortunately, and was outbowled by Root in that second innings. Ali must take his place and maybe open in place of Trott too.

 

[Whistler40145]

Our best bowlers in the Test were Anderson, Jordan & Root, Tredwell really wasn't good enough, Root got more turn, Stokes & Broad weren't 100% firing on all cylinders.

Should we swap Tredwell for Rashid or use Moeen Ali?

Should we try out Durham Paceman Mark Wood or try Liam Plunkett?
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Peter Siddle, Nathan Buck (ex Leics) & Alviro Peterson should all make their debut for Lancashire at Derbyshire tomorrow.

 

[Oswyntail]

As the more perspicacious have been saying for some time. England's problems are with the lack of penetrative bowling. Let us put to bed the idea that we need to mess around with the batting wholesale. The batsmen performed as a unit. But not a single one of the bowlers looked consistently threatening. And there is no one really to replace them that would also threaten. Good enough for the occasional good session, but not consistently to win matches. I could see quite a few draws in the near future.

 

[ainsworth74]

Should we try out Durham Paceman Mark Wood or try Liam Plunkett?

I'm a bit surprised that England have selected him actually. He is going to be really good (I hope ) but I think that he could have done with another full Championship campaign of seasoning before going into the England side.

 

[Whistler40145]

The batting unit would've done better if Trott had played in his normal place, he's not an opening batsman, you could even try Buttler to open, but he likes to give the ball a tonk!

 

[Oswyntail]

The batting unit would've done better if Trott had played in his normal place, he's not an opening batsman, you could even try Buttler to open, but he likes to give the ball a tonk!

Still, wholesale change is not necessary.
Apparently (according to the Times) Botham's reaction to Anderson's record was "curmudgeonly", as one might have expected.:roll:

 

[Whistler40145]

To me, drop Tredwell, bring in Moeen Ali to open with Cook & slot Trott in to bat at 3 or 4.

 

[Johnuk123]

The batting unit would've done better if Trott had played in his normal place, he's not an opening batsman, you could even try Buttler to open, but he likes to give the ball a tonk!

Trott's shot, and has been for ages, no point in flogging a dead horse he hasn't got the right mindset, get rid and give some kid a chance.

 

[Whistler40145]

You could say the same about the useless Captain, Alistair Cook!

 

[Johnuk123]

You could say the same about the useless Captain, Alistair Cook!

You could and it would be accurate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Trott's shot, and has been for ages, no point in flogging a dead horse he hasn't got the right mindset, get rid and give some kid a chance.

I sincerely hope that I mis-heard a comment made by a senior member of the England tour management that Trott has earned the right to stay as opener in the second Test Match. The first Test Match shows that he scored 0 and 4, so if this is true, then someone's team management logic has gone somewhat astray in the heat of the Caribbean.

 

[Whistler40145]

No you didn't Paul, it was a certain Peter Moores, who said Trott deserved his place.

I hope this isn't another ECB blunder!

 

[DarloRich]

The batting unit would've done better if Trott had played in his normal place, he's not an opening batsman, you could even try Buttler to open, but he likes to give the ball a tonk!

the batting unit would have been better with Lyth in for Trott. He shouldn't be there, he isn't ready, isn't over his issues and in poor nick but it looks like Cook wants a trusted lieutenant around him.

How can we face the convcits with those two top of the shop? We will be 7-2 in no time

And despite all the praise for Anderson the media seem to miss the central point: We didn't win the test match. We were unable to bowl out a mid table side like the Windies. Who thinks we can beat the convicts?

 

[Whistler40145]

Peter Moores should be getting rather worried if the current bowling attack couldn't rip through the West Indies.

 

[Busaholic]

A world record one-day score has been posted by a batsman named Liam Livingstone in a club match for Nantwich. He hit 350 not out in a mountainous score of 579 off 45 overs, his team going on to dismiss the hapless Caldy for 79 to win by the little matter of 500 runs! Lancashire supporters should look out for his first appearance in the team as he is a contracted player and,indeed, apparently scored a double century in Lancs Second XI last match of 2014 against the old foe.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A world record one-day score has been posted by a batsman named Liam Livingstone in a club match for Nantwich. He hit 350 not out in a mountainous score of 579 off 45 overs, his team going on to dismiss the hapless Caldy for 79 to win by the little matter of 500 runs! Lancashire supporters should look out for his first appearance in the team as he is a contracted player and,indeed, apparently scored a double century in Lancs Second XI last match of 2014 against the old foe.

This young 21 year old cricketer scored no less than 27 x 6 and 37 x 4 in this remarkable innings, meaning that 310 of his runs came in boundary shots.

 

[DownSouth]

With a score like that, usually you would be suggesting that would find a more interesting challenge if he increases the difficulty setting or went online to play multiplayer

 

[Busaholic]

With a score like that, usually you would be suggesting that would find a more interesting challenge if he increases the difficulty setting or went online to play multiplayer

Sorry,mate, I've only got an analogue brain, and some of that's a bit fuzzed up.


County players to watch for this year in the Championship imo:

opening batsmen - Hales and Northeast

middle order - James Taylor and Vince

fast bowlers - Footit, Morris of Worcs and Jack Brooks: maybe Topley and Tymal Mills too

spinners - Riley, though the cupboard may be almost bare

wicketkeeper - Billings, as exciting a prospect as Buttler once was. Great to be able to big up a Kent player at last, although probably Surrey or Middlesex will try and grab him in their usual inimitable way.

 

[ExRes]

Not many continuing newspaper headlines for the recall of Pietersen today, after his magnificent innings against a team of amateur university players he fails in his first 2nd division innings against the mighty Glamorgan

More effort and results required I believe