Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[The Planner]

Oxford re-signalling phase 0 has to do its bit around Oxford North Jn and up to the new Woodstock Road Jn before they can run into Oxford, they won't be finished until Feb 16.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Oxford re-signalling phase 0 has to do its bit around Oxford North Jn and up to the new Woodstock Road Jn before they can run into Oxford, they won't be finished until Feb 16.

Makes perfect sense. I was worried it would be something about abstraction etc. Given I'm almost exactly halfway between the two stations, I'll give this a try at some point.

May pop up to the ringroad take a few pictures soon.

 

[Andyjs247]

The Liberal Democrat party for their on-going campaign to have the railway line through Wolvercote closed. Surely it would be better to simply compulsory purchase and demolish the shoddily built homes that are in danger of collapse then rebuild high-density homes to modern standards?

I don't think this can be blamed on the LibDems, just local NIMBYs. However it would appear that the planning issues have been resolved now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
See article http://m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/13335768.New_rail_route_is_on_track_after_go_ahead/

NETWORK Rail has been given the go-ahead to start work in the city on a new rail route.

It comes after the west area planning committee decided to approve the Wolvercote section of the East West Rail scheme yesterday.

The Chiltern Railways Evergreen 3 proposal will create a new service between Oxford and London Marylebone on an upgraded Oxford to Bicester line.

Councillors were satisfied vibrations and noise levels would stay within acceptable limits on the new route despite concerns raised by residents.

 

[route:oxford]

I don't think this can be blamed on the LibDems, just local NIMBYs. However it would appear that the planning issues have been resolved now.

Local NIMBYS which include the Liberal Democrat Councillor for St Margaret's whose home backs onto the line...

(The Lib-Dems have also taken a formal stance against an Oxford tram system that might go through the main roads on their ward.)

They want to get people out of their cars and onto public transport, but now that the time has come to make considerable investment in public transport in the city there is panic as it might inconvenience residents of £M homes in North Oxford who vote Lib-Dem...

 

[jimm]

Local NIMBYS which include the Liberal Democrat Councillor for St Margaret's whose home backs onto the line...

(The Lib-Dems have also taken a formal stance against an Oxford tram system that might go through the main roads on their ward.)

They want to get people out of their cars and onto public transport, but now that the time has come to make considerable investment in public transport in the city there is panic as it might inconvenience residents of £M homes in North Oxford who vote Lib-Dem...

You really are very tedious, aren't you? I've already had a go at you about this silly Lib-Dem bashing, so it looks like time to do it again. A lot of the aggro over the railway at the moment in relation to noise and the location of the points between Parkway and Oxford North junction referred to in the report linked to above is down to the Labour-controlled city council insisting on assorted planning conditions etc, etc, which I'm sure you are well aware of, never mind that, as I have also said before, any councillor of whatever party would be making a fuss over this type of scheme, so they can claim to have got the best deal possible for the people who elected them. And you would be hard-pressed to find anything worth £1m anywhere near the railway. Lots of over-priced flats, yes, this is Oxford after all, but the seven-figure stuff is well away from nasty things like railways and major roads.

And if you really think trams are a runner for Oxford, dream on. If the DfT won't list places like Leeds and Liverpool have funding, how the hell is Oxford going to get it? This isn't France, where city and regional councils have a far greater degree of financial freedom.

 

[route:oxford]

You really are very tedious, aren't you? I've already had a go at you about this silly Lib-Dem bashing, so it looks like time to do it again. A lot of the aggro over the railway at the moment in relation to noise and the location of the points between Parkway and Oxford North junction referred to in the report linked to above is down to the Labour-controlled city council insisting on assorted planning conditions etc, etc, which I'm sure you are well aware of, never mind that, as I have also said before, any councillor of whatever party would be making a fuss over this type of scheme, so they can claim to have got the best deal possible for the people who elected them. And you would be hard-pressed to find anything worth £1m anywhere near the railway. Lots of over-priced flats, yes, this is Oxford after all, but the seven-figure stuff is well away from nasty things like railways and major roads.

And if you really think trams are a runner for Oxford, dream on. If the DfT won't list places like Leeds and Liverpool have funding, how the hell is Oxford going to get it? This isn't France, where city and regional councils have a far greater degree of financial freedom.

I appreciate you have a strong allegiance to this dying political party and, as you say, they are indeed grasping any opportunity in North Oxford to try curry favour with the property owners who may have voted for them in a desperate bid to retain seats at next years local elections.

Oddly enough, the 7-figure properties for sale convenient for the line on Zoopla all list the new railway as a major benefit!

Whilst you, like your Lib Dem colleagues, may well condemn the opportunity to have trams operating in Oxford on the bizarre basis that a grim Northern city which already has an extensive local rail network doesn't have them - it's quite simply not a good enough reason.

There are around 10,000 new jobs expected to be created within the city limits over the next 5-10 years.

If just half of them use the P&R services, it'll mean at least 1000 new spaces (which will no doubt also be condemned by the Lib-Dems) built at each of the P&R sites and a P&R bus leaving/arriving at each site every 3 minutes during the morning peak. So that's around 160 P&R buses an hour along St Aldates in the peak.

Reliance on buses in Oxford for future growth is simply untenable, it's just a shame that your party is unwilling or incapable of considering the wider social need beyond North Oxford by embracing better public transport for all.

 

[aylesbury]

Having experienced the traffic in Oxford over the last thirty odd years trams would not be the answer. The answer is to ban all private cars from the centre and only allow delivery vehicles ,buses,and of course emergency vehicles .Buses can easily look after passenger needs and offer flexibility on routing compliment this with high quality rail links and you have a sensible solution.Most bus routes are well patronised and the buses are all modern with almost zero emmissions so the climate questions are answered .I have to admit to have been very annoyed with council decisions regarding centre roads over the years as all they have done is tinker with them instead of being bold but now at least they are working with rail and this can only be of benefit.

 

[67018]

Oh no, not yet another thread spinning off into a tedious political slanging match. Is there a new forum rule that obliges this sort of activity on a thread after a certain amount of time, or is it just a case of being unlucky with the threads I've been following.

Attempting to change the subject, what do people think about the latest version of the timetable that's now been published? From my point of view it's good to see some evidence that the consultation has led to some useful changes; it also seems, though, that journey times have been extended by a few minutes - does this suggest that the previous timetable was a bit ambitious and some more resilience is now being built in?

 

[aylesbury]

Knowing the way Chiltern plan things they will want a faultless introduction of services from day one.If it there is a need for change once services start then they will look at it ,better a train on time than one trying to keep to impossible timings. When the citizens of Oxford star using Chiltern I think they will transfer in their thousands. Good car parking and Marylebone being nearer to central London will all help.

 

[route:oxford]

Attempting to change the subject, what do people think about the latest version of the timetable that's now been published? From my point of view it's good to see some evidence that the consultation has led to some useful changes; it also seems, though, that journey times have been extended by a few minutes - does this suggest that the previous timetable was a bit ambitious and some more resilience is now being built in?

The timetable is pretty good, we were discussing it at work. There was a bit of disappointment that the Up Oxford Parkway services aren't a touch closer to the 50 minute mark for the "Silver" service but general agreement that this is great news for commuters.

Perhaps the timings are ideal for the line opening at the height of leaf-fall to avoid early disatisfaction with service provision?

Living in East Oxford, I will probably continue travelling to Haddenham & Thame Parkway for the moment.

At work, we continue to discuss the business risk to staffing of this new service starting. The crisis moment is going to be at the end of July as the most senior staff have to give 3 months notice - we have benefitted for many years by the poor access to rail services in North Oxford and West Oxfordshire dissuading commuters from choosing the higher salaries of London. With more vacancies than job hunters in the Oxford area, it's likely we may have to re-introduce an Oxford allowance. We are aware that some employers are already offering up to £4000 a year Oxford allowance.

 

[edwin_m]

At work, we continue to discuss the business risk to staffing of this new service starting. The crisis moment is going to be at the end of July as the most senior staff have to give 3 months notice - we have benefitted for many years by the poor access to rail services in North Oxford and West Oxfordshire dissuading commuters from choosing the higher salaries of London. With more vacancies than job hunters in the Oxford area, it's likely we may have to re-introduce an Oxford allowance. We are aware that some employers are already offering up to £4000 a year Oxford allowance.

But Oxford can now tap into the labour pools of Bicester, Aylesbury and, eventually, Bletchley, MK and Bedford!

 

[berneyarms]

Oxford Mail story about the new timetable: http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/to...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

and the Chiltern site: http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/october-timetable

Interesting that the 07.24 up service is going to be "a 'silver' train service... which will be fitted with an espresso bar and a business zone". I think Chiltern are going to lay waste to FGW with that one.

Yes, I see the 07:24 breakfast-car "Club Train" from Oxford Parkway will be Class 68-hauled. This must be the first regular loco-hauled train from Oxford to London since the demise of Cross-Country's service via Kensington Olympia to Brighton. I predict an instant success!

Also note that the 18:18 Marylebone-Oxford Parkway will also be loco hauled silver stock.

 

[RobLawrence]

From my point of view it's good to see some evidence that the consultation has led to some useful changes

I have skimmed the new version but not against the precious iteration of the draft timetable (the one that was consulted on, right?)

Perhaps it was my haste but I couldn't immediately see any changes - apart from perhaps a couple of "first stop Bicester North" (1915?) on London to Birmingham services that I think previously were due first to stop further north.

What other changes have you spotted, 67018? I seem to recall there is a vociferous lobby group in Islip who were underwhelmed with the earlier draft: will they be any happier, do we think?

 

[67018]

I have skimmed the new version but not against the precious iteration of the draft timetable (the one that was consulted on, right?)

Perhaps it was my haste but I couldn't immediately see any changes - apart from perhaps a couple of "first stop Bicester North" (1915?) on London to Birmingham services that I think previously were due first to stop further north.

What other changes have you spotted, 67018? I seem to recall there is a vociferous lobby group in Islip who were underwhelmed with the earlier draft: will they be any happier, do we think?

Maybe I was being over-hasty (and too parochial), having spotted a couple of changes from the previous draft and assuming there had been more updates than had actually happened. It hadn't occurred to me that they'd make the change I asked for and not any others!

There were indeed some gaps in the weekday evening service to Bicester North that have been rectified by adding an additional call on to some trains (like the 2010 and 2210 - but not the 2307, which means in future it'll be out of the pub in time for the 2240 or a very late night).

There's a very good summary of the new timetable on another thread at http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=117317. The biggest shifts highlighted being the removal of most through trains to Stratford-on-Avon and the reduction to effectively an hourly off-peak service at Bicester North. The latter not a surprise since Bicester Village will get all the shopping outlet traffic.

Looks like the Banbury loco hauled set will go earlier in the mornings (0610 from Banbury) and evenings (1721 from Marylebone) - currently 0744 and 1750 respectively.

 

[petegunstone]

Having walked over Willow Walk Bridge (Aristotle Lane) today I note that the Up Relief has been lifted from Oxford North Junction south towards the station.

I have been wondering if the alignment is going to be subtly moved eastwards in order to accommodate the new Down Relief, or is this is simply to facilitate renewal of the formation.

 

[cogload]

Local NIMBYS which include the Liberal Democrat Councillor for St Margaret's whose home backs onto the line...

(The Lib-Dems have also taken a formal stance against an Oxford tram system that might go through the main roads on their ward.)

They want to get people out of their cars and onto public transport, but now that the time has come to make considerable investment in public transport in the city there is panic as it might inconvenience residents of £M homes in North Oxford who vote Lib-Dem...

Tedious individual that you are there are other reasons why the party has taken a stance against a tram project. For instance, Trams are not the answer in all circumstances and in this case buses maybe a better answer.

 

[jimm]

I appreciate you have a strong allegiance to this dying political party and, as you say, they are indeed grasping any opportunity in North Oxford to try curry favour with the property owners who may have voted for them in a desperate bid to retain seats at next years local elections.

Oddly enough, the 7-figure properties for sale convenient for the line on Zoopla all list the new railway as a major benefit!

Whilst you, like your Lib Dem colleagues, may well condemn the opportunity to have trams operating in Oxford on the bizarre basis that a grim Northern city which already has an extensive local rail network doesn't have them - it's quite simply not a good enough reason.

There are around 10,000 new jobs expected to be created within the city limits over the next 5-10 years.

If just half of them use the P&R services, it'll mean at least 1000 new spaces (which will no doubt also be condemned by the Lib-Dems) built at each of the P&R sites and a P&R bus leaving/arriving at each site every 3 minutes during the morning peak. So that's around 160 P&R buses an hour along St Aldates in the peak.

Reliance on buses in Oxford for future growth is simply untenable, it's just a shame that your party is unwilling or incapable of considering the wider social need beyond North Oxford by embracing better public transport for all.

You don't appreciate anything about me or my politics.

As others have said, you only seem interested in slagging off a certain party. If any other party held seats in the area of Oxford along the rail route, then they would be making just as much noise on behalf of the people who elected them - and representatives of other parties may well be making similar statements about the ongoing rail developments through North Oxford should they win seats there next year - or had that possibility escaped you?

Never mind that - as I keep pointing out so maybe it will register with you one of these days, but probably not on the evidence so far - the Labour leadership on the city council has also weighed in on a number of occasions to take on Network Rail over issues to do with the Chiltern project. I wonder why that might be? Perhaps so the voters of Wolvercote look kindly on them next May... surely not.

What 'opportunity to have trams' is this one you're talking about? People have been talking about trams in Oxford for years and there was a guided busway wheeze at one time as well. But there's no money.

If Leeds can't persuade DafT to give it the money for trams or trolleybuses to serve areas of that city which are nowhere near the railway network it won't be giving it to the likes of Oxford instead, however appalling the congestion gets. And frankly, the kind of money that would be required for a tram system would be far better spent on reviving heavy or light rail links to the likes of Abingdon, Witney and Carterton, so people don't bring their cars anywhere near Oxford in the first place. We would also be spared the howls of anguish there would be from people all over Oxford were the main arterial roads to be laid waste for years on end to lay tram tracks. It would make the anger over the Edinburgh fiasco look like a tea party.

Knowing the way Chiltern plan things they will want a faultless introduction of services from day one.If it there is a need for change once services start then they will look at it ,better a train on time than one trying to keep to impossible timings. When the citizens of Oxford star using Chiltern I think they will transfer in their thousands. Good car parking and Marylebone being nearer to central London will all help.

Faultless? Anyone remember the first few days of the Mainline timetable? You can bet your life they want to avoid a repeat of that.

Journey times are in line with what Chiltern said right back at the time it first proposed the route - with a 65-minute fastest journey target time from Marylebone to Oxford station.

Is this some Marylebone I don't know about? So not the one served by one Tube line and from which you have to walk to get to Baker Street to reach any other routes. And which won't be served by Crossrail from 2019, unlike a station beginning with P.

People from certain parts of Oxford may use Chiltern, people from other parts won't, because trying to get to Water Eaton will be difficult for them or Marylebone doesn't suit them in terms of onward travel. And, of course, we have yet to see what effect the opening of Parkway will have on the ever-growing congestion around Oxford, especially after about 7am, given that road improvements to be delivered in advance of opening near the station and further afield around Wolvercote/Pear Tree/Loop Farm are minimal and really only address existing problems, never mind further traffic growth.

Other people can build car parks too. Hanborough's 190-space extension opened by FGW a couple of years ago is now full up, with further expansion plans in hand, plus a scheme to add a deck at Charlbury and contractors are on site now to add a 100-plus space extension at Kingham. All of which might help to keep cars out of Oxford among other things.

I seem to recall there is a vociferous lobby group in Islip who were underwhelmed with the earlier draft: will they be any happier, do we think?

So the longstanding user group for the line is a vociferous lobby group is it? I would have been pretty underwhelmed looking at what Chiltern was initially proposing for Islip compared with the level of service provided from 2009 until the line closed for upgrading.

The group - http://www.obrag.org.uk - is now reasonably happy with Chiltern's final version of services for Islip and travel to/from the London direction will be allowed via the Parkway, adding a number of other journey opportunities with a quick change of trains.

 

[route:oxford]

Tedious individual that you are there are other reasons why the party has taken a stance against a tram project.

But at least we agree that I summarised the primary reason why the North Oxford Liberal Democrats are campaigning against a tram project most succinctly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You don't appreciate anything about me or my politics.

This is true. I neither appreciate you nor the anti-rail North Oxford Liberal Democrats that you are so keen to advocate and promote.

It's a shame really, as the South Oxfordshire Liberal Democrats seem quite pro-rail.

 

[jimm]

But at least we agree that I summarised the primary reason why the North Oxford Liberal Democrats are campaigning against a tram project most succinctly
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This is true. I neither appreciate you nor the anti-rail North Oxford Liberal Democrats that you are so keen to advocate and promote.

It's a shame really, as the South Oxfordshire Liberal Democrats seem quite pro-rail.

You're so right, you appreciate nothing, not least that anyone living near the railway through the north of Oxford might have another take on things from you.

For my part, I support the Chiltern project and the East West scheme but, unlike you, am also able to appreciate that people living in the area adjacent to the line have legitimate concerns that they would like the rail industry to address - and Network Rail has been listening, as demonstrated by the decision to move the location of the temporary point marking the transition from double to single track.

I have not 'advocated' or 'promoted' the North Oxford Liberal Democrat councillors, simply pointed out, every time you return to this tedious hobby horse of yours about them, that they are doing what they were elected to do - represent the views of the people in the areas they serve, which is a basic principle of a representative, democratic system of government, however much it apparently offends you.

Quite why the things they say get you quite so agitated beats me. Can't you just take it in your stride and move on, instead of banging on about it over and over?

 

[Nippy]

Having walked over Willow Walk Bridge (Aristotle Lane) today I note that the Up Relief has been lifted from Oxford North Junction south towards the station.

I have been wondering if the alignment is going to be subtly moved eastwards in order to accommodate the new Down Relief, or is this is simply to facilitate renewal of the formation.

It's called the Jericho line and was not an up line for passenger trains, being used for down passenger services to Bicester. It has been taken out of use pending realignment with room for another line eventually.

 

[petegunstone]

It's called the Jericho line and was not an up line for passenger trains, being used for down passenger services to Bicester. It has been taken out of use pending realignment with room for another line eventually.

Thanks. I was referring to some diagrams further up the thread, and I used the name from the future track layout as I didn't see one on the former layout.

 

[The Planner]

Room for another line? really? Not seen that one mentioned?

 

[Nippy]

Pretty sure that the final layout has an up and down Bletchley. It may be that one of the carriage sidings makes way for it. Or they join up before the sidings near Oxford North and the Jericho becomes an Up Relief.

 

[The Planner]

Jericho goes bi di, not ever seen anything else planned.

 

[jimm]

I understand that you have taken deep personal umbrage and it is causing you continued distress that your attempts to silence or censor my views on the anti-rail (and anti-tram) North Oxford Liberal Democrats have failed.

Why not simply put it down to experience that the North Oxford Liberal Democrats don't inspire everyone?

I'm not anxious, distressed or trying to censor anything, just fed up with you banging on about a few councillors doing their job as they see fit, in exactly the same way councillors from any other party would for their wards, which added nothing to the discussion the first time you mentioned them and hasn't the second time around.

Never mind that your claims that they are 'anti-rail' aren't a fair or accurate representation of the councillors' position anyway, as can be easily ascertained by looking at the Oxford Mail website, both in news stories and letters. Guess which group of councillors from which party has suggested a tram-train running alongside the A40 to serve Witney, then joining the railway near Wolvercote to run into Oxford station and possibly on to Cowley... but don't let that get in the way of your ranting, will you? Oh silly me, I forgot that the trams should actually be carving a path along Woodstock Road, never mind that it isn't wide enough for tram tracks and other traffic....

Jericho goes bi di, not ever seen anything else planned.

I'd agree with this. The only diagrams of proposals for the area I have seen up until now are quad track from the station up to the new Oxford North junction ladder and on to Wolvercot junction. In any case the bridge span where the Jericho line runs is only four tracks wide. Any extra tracks would have to use the double-line span to the east where the lines to Rewley Road used to run and where the trackbed is currently disused.

It may be the case that a final version of a new layout for Oxford includes a revived version of Chiltern's initial proposal for an independent line into the station, running to the east of the carriage sidings, if is decided that the bi-di Jericho line would be a capacity constraint on the main line, but quite what the final track layout of a rebuilt station and the surrounding area will be is still up in the air and Network Rail's current troubles with enhancement schemes probably won't help with progress towards that goal.

 

[Nippy]

Jericho goes bi di, not ever seen anything else planned.

Fair enough. As I have said above, there is an up and down Bletchley from Oxford North towards Bicester. I don't know what they are doing with the Jericho at the moment then or why they have closed it. I guess for some sort of remodelling work.

 

[route:oxford]

Guess which group of councillors from which party has suggested a tram-train running alongside the A40 to serve Witney, then joining the railway near Wolvercote to run into Oxford station and possibly on to Cowley... but don't let that get in the way of your ranting, will you? Oh silly me, I forgot that the trams should actually be carving a path along Woodstock Road, never mind that it isn't wide enough for tram tracks and other traffic...

The same anti-rail and anti-tram North Oxford Liberal Democrat councillors who launched a personal attack on Railfuture Thames Valley members in January in "The Oxford Mail"?

 

[RobLawrence]

So the longstanding user group for the line is a vociferous lobby group is it? I would have been pretty underwhelmed looking at what Chiltern was initially proposing for Islip compared with the level of service provided from 2009 until the line closed for upgrading.

The group - http://www.obrag.org.uk - is now reasonably happy with Chiltern's final version of services for Islip and travel to/from the London direction will be allowed via the Parkway, adding a number of other journey opportunities with a quick change of trains.

Thanks for the clarification about OBRAG's position on the latest iteration of the timetable and the website link. Interesting too to read some of your other thoughts on the topic.

On your other point, a reasonable definition here would be a group of people who express strongly held opinions about a particular cause: in their case passenger rail services on this line. And, yes looking through their website, most of the concerns they express most strongly are about service provision to/from Islip - itself a perfectly reasonable issue to have strongly held opinions about.

So, yes, the term "vociferous lobby group" is most certainly accurate, but I am sorry if you don't like it.

 

[berneyarms]

Could I just ask (as someone from afar who is interested in this project) that people might just stop posting so vehemently and attacking each other's politics here - it's really detracting from what is an interesting subject, i.e. the new Chiltern service to Oxford.

We all have different political views and perhaps elsewhere might be a better place to express them?

Just a thought.

 

[route:oxford]

Could I just ask (as someone from afar who is interested in this project) that people might just stop posting so vehemently and attacking each other's politics here - it's really detracting from what is an interesting subject, i.e. the new Chiltern service to Oxford.

We all have different political views and perhaps elsewhere might be a better place to express them?

Just a thought.

It is a nationally important subject that exposes the serious issues faced by organisations seeking to improve rail services in the UK.

Whilst national political parties are claiming to support rail improvements, we find that at local level attempts to improve public transport are stymied by groups such as the anti-rail, anti-tram North Oxford Liberal Democrats who are more concerned about personal minor inconveniences at the end of their back garden than the wider public good.