The 'Emergency' Budget

[Bletchleyite]

Proving the economy is run for the benefit and London and the SE.

Er, no. Proving that the people of London and the SE were being unfairly taxed just by virtue of living in an area with higher cost of living and of housing.

I dislike inheritance tax as a concept, to be honest - you earnt it, you paid tax on it, then you pay tax on it again when you give it to your kids. But if it must be applied, it should be banded by region to ensure the effect on everyone is the same, IMO. But probably just easier to abolish it and stick with income tax as the least unfair way of collecting general taxation.
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I don't get this login supplied with a TV licence idea people have come up with. A TV licence is for an address not an individual. So what's the point of issuing a login if multiple people at the same address could legally use it on different devices using a different IP address at the same time?

You could control it by allowing a specified number of logins per licence, perhaps based on the electoral roll, then if you can prove more people (e.g. children) live at your address you can get more.

Wouldn't make sense to supply it, would make more sense that you create one and use your licence number to validate it. Or even make it an option for the licence itself to be run as a "BBC Account" with child accounts for other householders - the classic methods of paying could remain for those who don't use the Web to whom none of this would be applicable anyway.

 

[muddythefish]

Er, no. Proving that the people of London and the SE were being unfairly taxed just by virtue of living in an area with higher cost of living and of housing.

It's a tax break for people who have got rich by doing nothing productive for the economy except stare at the wallpaper for 20 or 30 years.

Property is undertaxed already, and is one reason why the economy is so unbalanced. Making homes even more attractive as an "investment" by reducing taxes will do nothing to address this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

David: Out of interest where do you live? I just checked the current inheritance tax threshold and it's £325,000. Only a minority of the houses near me are valued at £325,000 or more and I apparently live in one of the most expensive towns in the North of England to buy a house! So it's a fair conclusion that very few people in the North of England will benefit from that change and I imagine the situation is similar in the Midlands, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

We both might live in Cheshire East, but in my area, the opposite applies to house prices, with many properties well into seven figures.
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The News website seems to imply that those wishing to access it will require a TV license, rather than adding some sort of additional charge.

A voice of perfect clarity above speaks from the wilderness of the Land of Confusion.

Look, do you get any "freebies" from Sky or Virgin Media? I just don't understand all this posting obsession with i-Player.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look, do you get any "freebies" from Sky or Virgin Media? I just don't understand all this posting obsession with i-Player.

Some of us barely watch live TV any more and just use the Players to watch it.
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It's a tax break for people who have got rich by doing nothing productive for the economy except stare at the wallpaper for 20 or 30 years.

Not really. Many of them have worked hard to earn the money to buy their house to live in, and would simply like to pass it to their children to give them a more secure future.

Property is undertaxed already, and is one reason why the economy is so unbalanced. Making homes even more attractive as an "investment" by reducing taxes will do nothing to address this.

I'm afraid I disagree. You could address the issue of homes as an investment better by imposing hefty taxes on second homes (perhaps better as an ownership tax than a tax on profit), but remember that private rental provides a necessary service as well (as we've flogged too many of the Council houses).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some of us barely watch live TV any more and just use the Players to watch it.

But that is a decision that you choose to make. Get a licence and you should have no problems.

 

[AM9]

That's certainly the method used in Australia for funding the ABC. Although it does seem that the ABC is somewhat beholden to the Government of the day, who have been accused of reducing funding if they don't like the ABC's output...

Ah, just as I suspected above.

 

[MikeWh]

George Osborne is holding an 'Emergency' Budget on Wednesday.

I don't know why the Guardian are calling it an 'emergency' budget. It is nothing of the sort. The incoming government always hold a new budget after an election unless they are the same as the outgoing government. They sometimes still do anyway. In this case the earlier budget was produced by the coalition, this one is just the Conservatives.

It used to be more meaningful when changes announced took place between 6pm that night (petrol, cigs, beer etc) and the start of the new tax year. Now that most measures seem to be announced a year in advance I do wonder whether the February budget could be scrapped when an election is following. Of course it's main use is as a bribe by the incumbents to try and get re-elected.

 

[radamfi]

If you are "rich", however you define it, it should make no difference for the purposes of taxation what asset classes the wealth is comprised of. In Britain there appears to be a culture of disregarding property as part of wealth. If someone has £325,000 of shares or cash then most people would call them "rich", but not if someone has no money but an expensive house. A property with value can potentially be liquidated into a large number of shiny pound coins.

 

[Kite159]

It will be interesting to see what George pulls out of his little red briefcase tomorrow.

Sunday trading relaxation is interesting and might deserve it's own thread if confirmed, but if it works in Scotland then why won't it work in England/Wales

 

[radamfi]

Sunday trading relaxation is interesting and might deserve it's own thread if confirmed, but if it works in Scotland then why won't it work in England/Wales

Even Ireland, which is supposed to be a highly religious country, has unregulated Sunday opening. America, also famous for being religious fanatics, have many Wal-Marts open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't know why the Guardian are calling it an 'emergency' budget. It is nothing of the sort.

What else did you expect, this being the usual Guardian view of any matter "Conservative".
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Even Ireland, which is supposed to be a highly religious country.

I feel that Ireland is now far removed from that particular stereotype noting how events have occurred there over the last 10 years or so.

 

[radamfi]

I feel that Ireland is now far removed from that particular stereotype noting how events have occurred there over the last 10 years or so.

They still outlaw abortion, though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It will be interesting to see what George pulls out of his little red briefcase tomorrow. Sunday trading relaxation is interesting and might deserve it's own thread if confirmed, but if it works in Scotland then why won't it work in England/Wales

Perhaps another opportunity for Mick Cash, that famous champion of "the oppressed", to give an RMT view on the matter and state that their union will give their fullest support to those "oppressed shopworkers" who will "express their anger at such proposals" who will be affected by such a proposal.....of course, there will be the obligatory threat of RMT strike action to back up his rhetoric....

Incidentally, is there a plethora of "hot irons" at the RMT headquarters, noting the old saying of "strike whilst the iron is hot".....:roll:

 

[tony_mac]

What else did you expect, this being the usual Guardian view of any matter "Conservative".

Is that supposed to be a question or just empty rhetoric?

It's the standard phrase being used by newspapers including The Independent, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Daily Express, etc.
It may be a prominent phrase because it was the description used by the incoming government to describe the last post-election budget in 2010.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is that supposed to be a question or just empty rhetoric?

Perhaps a rhetorical question. Howsoever, let me assure you that all my rhetoric is exceedingly full and not suffering from any stages of malnutrition whatsoever....

 

[DownSouth]

That's certainly the method used in Australia for funding the ABC. Although it does seem that the ABC is somewhat beholden to the Government of the day, ...

Ah, just as I suspected above.

Absolute cobblers.

The ABC is fiercely independent and, just like the BBC, criticised for bias just about equally by people from all sides of politics. They did a good job of holding the previous Labor government to account, and they are doing a good job of holding the current Coalition* government to account.

It's not really any worse than making public broadcasters beholden to licence payers, just a different mechanism. It's certainly no worse than what faces commercial networks (chasing ratings instead of producing good programming) or subscription networks (being beholden to subscribers).

Attacking the ABC is also not a policy calculated to win votes. Certain presenters or programs may get on the nerves at times (e.g. the current storm in a tea cup over Q&A) but in general people of all political viewpoints greatly value the ABC for its important role in Australian life.

... who have been accused of reducing funding if they don't like the ABC's output...

And such policies never get enacted, because Labor governments cannot get them through the Senate, and Coalition* governments would struggle to get them through the House of Representatives because they would face a large revolt within their own ranks.


* the Liberal and National parties are a permanent Coalition representing the centre-right that contest elections on a joint platform, as opposed to a temporary coalition as UK people would understand them. Liberal candidates contest urban seats and National candidates contest rural seats, and in most states they run a joint ticket for the election of Senators.

 

[DarloRich]

Interesting that people are focusing on Sunday trading and I player and missing the bigger picture..................

 

[pemma]

I don't know why the Guardian are calling it an 'emergency' budget.

The majority of media outlets are referring to it as the emergency budget.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=emergency budget 2015

It's been styled an emergency budget, but an emergency for who, asks Today presenter Simon Jack? Tina Riches tax partner at Smith & Williamson says George Osborne has "made it more difficult for himself by restricting the main rates including income tax" but he could remove some tax reliefs, she says, or cut the annual investment allowance for small businesses if he needs to raise money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-33383657
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You could control it by allowing a specified number of logins per licence, perhaps based on the electoral roll, then if you can prove more people (e.g. children) live at your address you can get more.

I think one issue with giving logins is people will think it's their login to use from whichever PC they want, opposed to a login to use only from their house or a portable device.

Students are often a Capita target when trying to catch people without licences. They are also the people likely to be on the electoral role at their home address meaning they'd have a valid login under your idea but a login that wouldn't be valid at their term time address.

 

[Clip]

so a raise to the licence fee and a charge to watch iPlayer. Marvellous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think one issue with giving logins is people will think it's their login to use from whichever PC they want, opposed to a login to use only from their house or a portable device.

In practice it would be, and a change to the licence T&C to permit that would seem logical.

 

[pemma]

We both might live in Cheshire East, but in my area, the opposite applies to house prices, with many properties well into seven figures.

There are numerous 7 figure price properties within a mile or two of my house. However, one council estate on the edge of town has around 300 houses, using the same amount of land as probably around 20 of those 7 figure price properties.

Just doing a quick search of your local area came up with a result of the below average property prices

Mottram St Andrew (629 residents) - £1.6m
Prestbury (3,324 residents) - £613,000
Tytherington (11,800 residents) - £223,000
Macclesfield (52,000 residents) - £140,000

While the average home in Mottram St Andrew or Prestbury would be affected by inheritance tax, the number of houses affected is a small proportion of the total in the area and an extremely small proportion of the number of houses in the North of England.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I sometimes hear lines like "Well if you can't afford children, don't have 'em!" Unfortunately, poor people tend to make poor financial decisions which keeps them locked in poverty without understanding why. They would probably have children regardless of whether they can afford them or not. Then you end up with even more people born into poverty who end up stuck there, unable to escape, exacerbating the problem. I'd rather not see our country decrease in social mobility and it seems to me that cuts are done with only the short-term savings in mind, without much thought for the long-term consequences.

That reasoning also ignores the fact that people can have children while they are in a good financial situation, then shock horror that situation could change!!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just doing a quick search of your local area came up with a result of the below average property prices

Mottram St Andrew (629 residents) - £1.6m
Prestbury (3,324 residents) - £613,000
Tytherington (11,800 residents) - £223,000
Macclesfield (52,000 residents) - £140,000

While the average home in Mottram St Andrew or Prestbury would be affected by inheritance tax, the number of houses affected is a small proportion of the total in the area and an extremely small proportion of the number of houses in the North of England.

I have stated many times that our 6-bedroom 200 year old residence with six outbuildings and a paddock, whilst officially being in Prestbury, is in the rural border area between Prestbury and Mottram St Andrew, where a number of small lanes do so occur.

I should well imagine my two immediate neighbours, both being farmers with large farmhouses, barns and outbuildings and land and of a similar property age to ours would expect considerable recompense should either of those farms be sold.

 

[transmanche]

Absolute cobblers.

So what about the AU$254 funding cut announced by the coalition in 2014?

And such policies never get enacted,

So not 'cobblers' then, but according to you just politically unfeasible to follow through on the rhetoric.

 

[DarloRich]

I have stated many times that our 6-bedroom 200 year old residence with six outbuildings and a paddock, whilst officially being in Prestbury, is in the rural border area between Prestbury and Mottram St Andrew, where a number of small lanes do so occur.

I should well imagine my two immediate neighbours, both being farmers with large farmhouses, barns and outbuildings and land and of a similar property age to ours would expect considerable recompense should either of those farms be sold.

Paul,

You could take the aggregate value of my house, my mums house, my dads flat and my brothers house and still have change from £1m!

lets not pretend this taxation change impacts on normal people in any way. The IHT threshold is already £325,000 (which covers most normal people and their estates). That sum can be "rolled up" to double the threshold in the case of married couples.

In fact if you pay ANY inheritance tax at all you must be catastrophically stupid! There are so many ways to divest your estate in a tax efficient manner.

 

[pemma]

Well there's things in the budget Labour can't object to as they are similar to things that were in the Labour manifesto: Scrapping non-dom status, raising the minimum wage and increasing funding for the NHS.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite a mixed bag all in all!

Good stuff such as: Introducing a new level of minimum wage for workers over 25 of £7.20ph from April 2016 rising to £9ph by 2020 bringing is almost in line with a living wage (at least outside of London). Personal Allowance going up to £11,000 next year and to £12,500 by 2020. Social housing rents to be decreased by 1% per year for the next four years. Economy growing by 3% in 2014. NHS getting £8bn extra by 2020 (on top of £2bn already committed). Defence expenditure to meet 2% NATO pledge plus increase in real terms (inflation + 0.5%) every year of this parliament.

Very happy to see hike in minimum wage (shame it isn't for 21 and overs though) and a small increase in defence expenditure.

But there is some stuff in there which I'm concerned about: Income threshold for Tax Credits slashed to £3,850 (from £6,420). Child Tax Credits (and Universal Credit) for only the first two children affecting those born from April 2017 (I'm not actually opposed to this but it's going to be a big change). Benefit Cap ticking down to £23,000 (going to really hurt people in London). Restrictions on Housing Benefit for 18 - 21 year olds. Maintenance Grants for students being replaced with loans (I think that you're going to end up graduating with around £50,000 of debt after these changes assuming a three year degree course).

There are other bits of course (like the License Fee and Inheritance Tax stuff being talked about earlier in this thread) but those are the big things from my point of view. Very interesting budget.

I'd argue it's not as bad as some were predicting personally. Definitely issues (around Tax Credits mostly) but a lot of positive stuff in there.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite a mixed bag all in all!

Good stuff such as: Introducing a new level of minimum wage for workers over 25 of £7.20ph from April 2016 rising to £9ph by 2020 bringing is almost in line with a living wage (at least outside of London). Personal Allowance going up to £11,000 next year and to £12,500 by 2020. Social housing rents to be decreased by 1% per year for the next four years. Economy growing by 3% in 2014. NHS getting £8bn extra by 2020 (on top of £2bn already committed). Defence expenditure to meet 2% NATO pledge plus increase in real terms (inflation + 0.5%) every year of this parliament.

Very happy to see hike in minimum wage (shame it isn't for 21 and overs though) and a small increase in defence expenditure.

But there is some stuff in there which I'm concerned about: Income threshold for Tax Credits slashed to £3,850 (from £6,420). Child Tax Credits (and Universal Credit) for only the first two children affecting those born from April 2017 (I'm not actually opposed to this but it's going to be a big change). Benefit Cap ticking down to £23,000 (going to really hurt people in London). Restrictions on Housing Benefit for 18 - 21 year olds. Maintenance Grants for students being replaced with loans (I think that you're going to end up graduating with around £50,000 of debt after these changes assuming a three year degree course).

There are other bits of course (like the License Fee and Inheritance Tax stuff being talked about earlier in this thread) but those are the big things from my point of view. Very interesting budget.

I'd argue it's not as bad as some were predicting personally. Definitely issues (around Tax Credits mostly) but a lot of positive stuff in there.

agree! Some good stuff, some stuff i am cynical about and some worrying stuff.

 

[Dave1987]

IMO that was a cracking budget and seemed to catch Harman out which I was very pleased about! Capping the benefits a household can claim to £20k means they can still claim up to around £28-£30k in real terms, taking into account income tax and National insurance. Considering that the average wage in this country is £25k a year they can still claim an awful lot.

One thing I was surprised about though was there was nothing to make it easier to get more housing built. Its all well and good saying that we need to built 300k houses a year in this country but nothing is being done to make that process easier.

 

[pemma]

Very happy to see hike in minimum wage (shame it isn't for 21 and overs though) and a small increase in defence expenditure.

That's the thing I don't get. An adult is someone over the age of 18, so why talk about over 21s or over 25s when the minimum wage or benefits are being discussed. I think it's one thing saying the maximum amount of benefits are only available to people who have paid x years' of NI but apart from that I don't get a multiple tier system for people over 18.